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Old 02-12-2009, 02:50 AM   #21
Web Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
Protection of "free speech" is laudable, but we do have to draw a line somewhere. IMHO, Jae, this is where it is drawn - in places where horrible things occurred, without a ton of dissent by the people who lived there, some who willingfully involved themselves in making it happen - those people lose a little of that freedom, so that such a thing won't happen there again.
Define "horrible". Why people are dying in Iraq can be a tricky question, is it the US's fault? Is it insurgents fault? Would Saddam have been worse?(these are all hypothetical mind you.)

My point is that what we think was a "bad" thing does not mean that gives it protection from being questioned. Those 9/11 conspiracy guys bug me, but they're free to speculate that the government really was involved. Holocaust denying and Holocaust revisionism are two different things, is saying that only 10 million died as opposed to 11 million better or worse than saying 500,000 died? Should any statement outside official "doctrine" be punishable?

People learn by knowing, and we know through questioning. People are MORE inclined to repeat stupid things when the government comes in with an iron first and says "DO THIS!"

Quote:
As you are welcome to do. Freedom of Speech does not imply freedom to say whatever you want and not fear getting canned for it. Your government protects you for being punished physically or mentally for your free expression - your pocketbook is your own problem.
In the US, our "First Amendment Rights" really only apply to the government, that's what they protect us from. Subsequent laws protect us from others, but only in certain situations.

Quote:
Are you sure you are not simply playing devil's advocate here? We have facts regarding the event known as the Holocaust. This removes the predicate "belief" from the conversation. Tyranny is a stretch here, really.
You're right, we have "facts" about the Holocaust. What we don't have is absolute truth. We know, with a darn good assurance, what happened, we don't know every last detail and the exactness of everything. We have facts known about the number "pi" too, but you'll still get a different answer when writing an equation with 2x3.14 and 2x3.14159ect...ect...

I think it's easier to let these guys bluster themselves out, as you said, they will more often than not shoot themselves in the foot. What they represent, regardless of what they're questioning, is that they ARE questioning. And we always should be. We should never take for granted that we KNOW everything there is to know about anything, especially the Holocaust. We can't simply boil it down to "it was horrible", because then it loses it's meaning.

We need to know, beyond any doubt, that it was every bit as horrible as the facts we've found say it was. And there is room for doubt.


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"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

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