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Old 02-12-2009, 08:50 AM   #22
jonathan7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
As you are welcome to do. Freedom of Speech does not imply freedom to say whatever you want and not fear getting canned for it. Your government protects you for being punished physically or mentally for your free expression - your pocketbook is your own problem.
I wasn't suggesting you don't get criticised for it. However is any discussion/debate so certain you would force it upon others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
Are you sure you are not simply playing devil's advocate here? We have facts regarding the event known as the Holocaust. This removes the predicate "belief" from the conversation. Tyranny is a stretch here, really.
You *will* confirm, or face sanction, seems to me to be a tyranny regardless of however naive/stupid/silly/ignorant a belief is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
“Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality.” - 'Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?'
Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
Wow... J.S. Mill, that old Utilitarian... haven't read his work in a looooong time. I did like Ethical Theory I agree with your point, just not how you are making it, and I argue that you are juxtaposing opinion/belief for known fact, which is not an acceptable substitution. Breaks the equation....
I'd suggest you read Descartes again , what is a *known* fact and what is opinion? How do you know something is true? How do you know the Holocaust actually happened? (Yes I'm playing devil's advocate here). However;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.” 'Marriage and Morals'
There is therefore a chance, no matter how small that the whole holocaust is a fabrication and conspiracy and it didn't happen. George Berkeley kind of springs to my mind currently. Anyways; therefore, while I will strongly argue that it did happen with anyone who denies it, I will not force them to agree with me by any means of intimidation.


In the grand scheme of things, if someone thinks the holocaust happened or not, does not actually matter; regardless of if some people's emotions tell them otherwise. In the unfolding cosmic drama, in a Universe so big we have as of yet to accurately measure, and in a Universe 14 Billion years, old the deaths of small lifeforms who live for a tiny period, doesn't really matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
Well, I hear you a little here, but really.... Beliefs like those are a dying breed, all by themselves. We don't need to stomp on them to make them any uglier or less appreciable - they do that for themselves.
Unfortunately I have to disagree, if history has shown us anything it is in time of financial trouble, racism increases rather than decreases.



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
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