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Old 02-12-2009, 04:59 PM   #20
jonathan7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakske View Post
I would like to say thank you for the link to the translation of "Also Sprach Zarathustra", I'm learning about Nietzsche at school and I'm very interested about it .
No worries

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakske View Post
I do want to say, from what I know (from what I've heard at school that is, so please correct me if I'm wrong), that his theory doesn't give much hope to people who are in need of help... From what I know, N. says helping someone or showing compassion is one of the worst things you can do.
You played TSL? In many respects Kreia embodies quite a few Nietzschean philosophies, how does she respond to Darksiders killing everyone?

Anyways, this book review maybe of interest;
http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle5606645.ece


Quote:
Originally Posted by zakske View Post
I may have said this very simplistic, and again, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sorry if this is the case...

Also, people complain about Hitler and the Nazi party abusing the "‹bermensch" idea (I agree about the Holocaust being a terrible fact), but I don't see how they are abusing it, isn't everything in life, according to Nietzsche, about striving to power, about the need to rule... Isn't that what makes something into an "‹bermensch".
Nietzsche would I think of viewed Hitler as not bright enough to be an ‹bermensch, besides which, Nietzsche disowned his own sister for her anti-Semitic husband for a period of time (and her own views being influenced by her husband) which I hope goes to prove Nietzsche would not of approved of the holocaust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakske View Post
I'm sorry if I'm not very clear in my explanations, but I'm just confused about these ideas, so if anyone could explain it some more, I would be grateful.
In 'Ecce Homo' Nietzsche ends with an attempt at self criticism as well as having the old sage review his life's work. I would actually recommend this as the best starting place to understanding what Nietzsche thought of his own philosophies. He goes through each of his major works with a review. I thoroughly recommend only Walter Kaufmann translations if you pay for a book, he is the foremost of all the Nietzsche scholars, and be very wary of any Nietzsche 'translation' pre 1945.

Anyways, it could be said that Nietzsche would think the gulf between the ‹bermensch and the average human, as greater than the gap between say humans and lower species. Most people do not have the ability to reach the level of the ‹bermensch. However the key here is the kind of individuals Nietzsche regarded as ‹bermensch; Napoleon was very much viewed as a failed ‹bermensch, perhaps Plato and Socrates much more succesful one. Hitler I'm sure Nietzsche would of just viewed as an idiot (which is what he was, the man may have been a great orator, and manipulator, but he was a fool). The only real thing Hitler and Nietzsche have in common is a bad choice in facial hair.

*Anyways, my very brief attempt to sum up the theory; the ‹bermensch, is an individual who has broken through the mould, and the ‹bermensch is one who reveals themselves as having attained the highest degrees of expression in his will to power. Of these various 'highher degrees of expression' Philosophy is one (if not the) highest. More common 'will to power' are lower ones (such as revenge) and must be sublimated into more useful forms of energy. The ‹bermensch is totally self reliant, having broken away from the culture he is surrounded by, this comes about by the ‹bermensch realising his 'true' self, so he is no longer a thoughtless accident, but a deliberate thought, of his own deliberate accord and nature. Because the ‹bermensch realises 'God is Dead' he then sets about inventing his own 'morality' as he see's fit. This, is at least, how this lay philosopher interprets the theory. I'm sure others will come in, with their own take

Anyways, as such, I don't think Hitler has any of the above qualities, ergo he is not an ‹bermensch and I would go as far as saying Hitler would not of been intelligent enough to understand the theory.

*Ladies, please don't be offended, this is how I see Nietzsche's theory, and not my own belief, the German coot, having had is heart broken, certainly had a downer on woman, and he thought the best a woman could hope for was to give birth to an ‹bermensch (ironically, Nietzsche failing to break away from his own culture?



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
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