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Old 02-15-2009, 11:14 PM   #23
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
What happens if that happens to be true?
Well then, that would depend on the boss now wouldn't it?
If his Mrs. IS fat:
1) if he is like most business owner guys I have met He'd probably say something on the order "Ey, c'mon man! Gimmie some slack!" or "Yeah esse, I know. It's horrible...say, you got any homegirls willin' to do lap dance for me, homeboy?"

2) or it could go rather nastily as though it were false if the guy is particularly sensitive about it--or he is baring the brunt of it because his wife is sensitive about it. Rather nastily as in you either face retribution on civilized terms in your job...or get ready to duck as the guy cocks back to take a swipe at you. (daffy duck jumping around and whooping comes to mind).

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This strikes me a bit like tyranny though, you will believe what we believe or we will hurt you...
How do you figure?
I would figure for such things, that the price (if not a 'sacking') would be in the neighborhood of having your proverbial "face shoved in the dung" --the very same dung which those were spewing. Ostracized in the least.

I think as an American, freedoms without having to take responsibility for them is a folly.

Moreover if the man doesn't believe in some of the doctrines of the church for whom he is professing their word...I daresay that he has disqualified himself by virtue of denial.

Theoretically and playing devil's advocate: well, there really is nothing he's going to say or do about it as it would put him roughly on par with most conspiracy theorists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
Protection of "free speech" is laudable, but we do have to draw a line somewhere. IMHO, Jae, this is where it is drawn - in places where horrible things occurred, without a ton of dissent by the people who lived there, some who willingfully involved themselves in making it happen - those people lose a little of that freedom, so that such a thing won't happen there again.
It isn't so much a loss of freedom, as it is having your feet put to the fire.
--If that helps you any to put it in perspective. I say there is nothing wrong with having to tow the line for what you espouse in such a position.

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As you are welcome to do. Freedom of Speech does not imply freedom to say whatever you want and not fear getting canned for it. Your government protects you for being punished physically or mentally for your free expression - your pocketbook is your own problem.
Whatever works. Rights do have responsibilities; and thusly actions with such have their consequences, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
My point is that what we think was a "bad" thing does not mean that gives it protection from being questioned. Those 9/11 conspiracy guys bug me, but they're free to speculate that the government really was involved.
Fine and well. However I will reiterate if ignorance (or I guess just outright BS in this case) is obvious, it ought to be ridiculed rather than considered. Those posing an argument ought to have it well plotted and covered on all angles.


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Holocaust denying and Holocaust revisionism are two different things, is saying that only 10 million died as opposed to 11 million better or worse than saying 500,000 died? Should any statement outside official "doctrine" be punishable?
Not just any statement, no. When perhaps you are revealing that would not otherwise be revealed (and have sufficient cause to believe it so), then no. At least not without some serious consideration/reconsideration.

When it hyperbolizes to extremes, yes. When it is slanted (hyperbole with omissions) to fit your personal beliefs instead of the unabridged word, yes.


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In the US, our "First Amendment Rights" really only apply to the government, that's what they protect us from. Subsequent laws protect us from others, but only in certain situations.
Funny isn't it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
I wasn't suggesting you don't get criticised for it. However is any discussion/debate so certain you would force it upon others?
Only right then and there ad nauseum. Undeniably right in front of you which rarely happens admittedly. Which was not the case for this guy. Beating a dead horse: while letting the guy make his testimony so that it could be torn apart (setup for failure) is an effective way to go about things, it may be more hassle and lees dignified than it is worth.

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You *will* confirm, or face sanction, seems to me to be a tyranny regardless of however naive/stupid/silly/ignorant a belief is.
Then I guess the whole "thing" of research in and of itself is a dictatorship?

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In the grand scheme of things, if someone thinks the holocaust happened or not, does not actually matter; regardless of if some people's emotions tell them otherwise.
True. Fair enough I guess.


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Unfortunately I have to disagree, if history has shown us anything it is in time of financial trouble, racism increases rather than decreases.
OR some other form of bigotry thereof. Majoritarianism for one.
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