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Old 02-18-2009, 05:39 PM   #13
Exiled Jedi...
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Disclaimer, these opinions entirely represent me, and not the rest of the Staff nor Lucas Forums* TM

I would like to at this point remind people of the Rules everyone agree's to on sign up;
Originally Posted by Terms and Conditions
LucasForums Rules

Although the administrators and moderators of LucasForums will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of LucasForums, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of LucasForums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread or post for any reason.
(Found, here; )

For the main, I think this deals with a few points, Q, I like you and very much want you to stick around, but I'm affraid I can't agree with your general points here. Firstly Lucas Forums is PG-13, so some posts have to be edited or deleted (such as say if a Porn bot posts link), but due to the sign up points, I don't think your complaint can stand.

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
I'd like to start out by stating that I recognize that LF is in danger of imploding. If I have in any way contributed to this over the past several months (and I believe that I have), then I am truly sorry. I just want this place to be like it was before the days of political agendas and (perceived or actual) forum snobbery.
I'm not convinced LF is going to implode, though, I think membership isn't what it once was. May I query Political agenda's who has a political agenda and what for? I'm unsure what staff can do about Forum snobbery?

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
The purpose for this thread is for anyone to state their ideas on how to rectify the situation before LucasForums is irrevocably flushed down the toilet.
I can't speak for the whole forums, but I don't think SW:K is going down the pan.

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
This is not a thread for finger pointing, denials, snide remarks, insults, derisive "serious business" humor-spamming or other forms of blatant obstructionism. If it degenerates into such, I will come to the conclusion that the offenders actually want the situation to remain as it is and I will request that it be locked immediately. I will then admit to myself that the situation is indeed hopeless and quit the forum, so if anyone really does want me gone, here's your chance.
Please don't leave!

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
This thread is for serious ideas on possible solutions only.
I'm affraid I'm not really going to list solutions here, but I hope you will see where I'm coming from. Please feel free to PM me any further clarifications as to problems you have in forum.

Now to the point:

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
1) Kavar's:
It was a noble experiment, but I agree with Darth InSidious' assessment that it was doomed to failure from the very beginning and has acted as a sort of cancer, with arguments and agendas spreading to Ahto and beyond. Various treatments have been applied to little or no effect and the only real solution left is for the KotOR forum to undergo radical surgery to have Kavar's permanently removed. Any and all political discussion (and agendas) should be relegated to the Senate Chambers, which has successfully existed for years without having the effect of poisoning the rest of the forum. I give credit to the Swampies for this, because they don't want and won't stand for that crap polluting their little corner of LF, and really: who can blame them?
I think after a couple of periods of tribulation Kavars is coming out of the issues it has had, if you had posted this a couple of months ago I may have taken more heed to it. Secondly, I would say the Senate is far more aggressive than Kavars, and isn't an environment, I or several members wish to post in.

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
2) Post editing, snipping and deletions:
These have to stop. I recognize that they are used in an effort to smooth over arguments and to eliminate the offensive nature of certain comments in order to prevent people's feelings from being hurt, but they are having a very detrimental effect by preventing conflict resolution and giving the impression of censorship and bias. Offensive and rule-breaking posts should be left as they are, warts and all (sans profanity and obscene photos, links and other objects), so that everyone can see exactly why certain actions are being taken by members of the staff. The only editing to offending posts should be moderator comments and the removal of the afore-mentioned profanity/obscenity. This will (hopefully) have the following effects:

a) To dispel impressions, be they real or imagined, of favoritism, censorship, the destroying of evidence and the sweeping of unpleasantries under the rug.

b) To enforce permanent accountability on any and all posters, including staff, by preventing the exploitation of the current policy of snipping and deleting flames and other forms of asshattery by depending upon it to cover their tracks. This should make anyone think twice before posting because once it's there, it's there for good and for all to see and use for future reference.
This isn't in line with the TaC's of sign up. Regardless in a PG-13 Forum, and according to the owners it is neccasary to edit and delete posts. Lucas Forums enjoys a special relationship with Lucas Arts, if posts such as Porting/Piracy allowed, the legal ramifications would spell an end to that relationship. As a few counter arguments.

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
3) Staff meetings and decision-making:
Should be open to the public and subject to oversight and input by all forum members.
I can't agree, no decisions would be made, nor is the forum a democracy.

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
4) Promotions and demotions:
Should be decided upon by all forum members.
If there is a forum 'elite' and cliques, this would only cause further issues rather than stop them. It would turn things into a popularity quest. I would also argue it would in fact allow certain people to get away with more because they are popular.

Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
That's all I can think of right now. I welcome everyone to come forward and put forth their ideas in a civilized manner.
I hope you feel I have done so

"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
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