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Old 03-13-2009, 02:33 AM   #79
Darth Avlectus
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Posts: 4,266
Current Game: Poisoning pigeons in the park.
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Originally Posted by Tommycat View Post
I highly doubt this is leading to a new secession movement.
Thank you. There is a purpose to declaring their sovereignty. However secession is not it.
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Those that don't think the government is overstepping it's bounds REALLLLLY need to look at what has been going on. Or do you support the USA PATRIOT ACT. Hey just because it was primarily supported by Republicans, and I happen to be a Republican, doesn't mean it isn't relevant. In fact it is even more relevant now.
Yeah, they can basically listen in to your phone conversations any time they want without a warrant. Which is complete and utter bull****. If that isn't stepping on the first amendment, I don't know what is. Bah, patriot act. It is anything BUT. REAL patriot stuff supports and strengthens the constitution. Glad to see you on the same page, Tommycat.
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When you combine that over-reaching with further over-reaching being done by this administration it should worry anyone in this country that enjoys their liberty.
Yeah. In fact, I wonder...are there any plans by this current administration to attempt to put this act to rest? Just curious...

I believe there has been enough infighting within the republican party lately that now if one were to closely examine the result there are multiple different opinions about it in the republican party.
--- Some were for it without question. (Shortsighted and probably are retracting that to parrot the others, NOW that they are the scourge)
--- Some were for it only if it had limitations to it and wore off after a certain time. This is understandable as it was then, but now this group is licking its wounds as the calls get louder all the time to put the patriot act away.
--- Some were against it totally because it allowed government interference into our personal lives and screwed with the privacy act. Basically more government that wasn't necessarily law enforcement though could claim to be under that guise in the form of national/homeland security. In a generalized sense it was more government and thus contradicting their principle of being for less government.

Those on 'the right' who scrutinized (if not opposed) it did so because:
1) the potential overstepping seen then which they predicted (correctly) would happen, and has come to pass.
2) it defys the very principle of of "less government" that has long distinguished conservatives as I said above.

So this has lead to a conflict; a contradiction if you will. I find people all the time using this contradiction calling 'the right' imperialists. Hearing only what they want to hear.
You'd say: "I supported the patriot act to keep us safe, but it largely needs limitations on both its scope and focus, and its time duration limited. It has sorely needed them from the beginning"
They'd hear something like: "I supported the patriot act , limitations . sorely needed them from the beginning."
Ah, thank god for attention deficit disorder.

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It is rather funny that people somehow feel ok with removing the right to keep and bear arms. It won't stop criminals from getting them. Heck I can make my own black powder. Anyone can. And making a black powder firearm is not that difficult(I did). It is one of our rights, regardless of how easy it is to skirt prohibition(hehe funny how that word seems rather appropriate) of firearms. How long will it be until another right gets taken away?
Careful, you might be charged with the "slippery slope" fallacy because it hasn't happened yet and you don't have absolutely definitive evidence that the right to bear arms will disappear--even if some people only want to just limit it a little bit. Of course you can trust politicians, right? They're mostly if not all moral and ethical people who won't do aaaaanything wrong when you aren't looking. Or try to push bills through congress really quickly and silently. Or do anything to further their own agendas. After all, it is only "proper" to hyper-focus on an issue and not the integrity of the one talking about it, because otherwise that's an ad-hominem. Besides, if you try to view it from a larger picture you're just muddying the waters.
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