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Old 04-08-2009, 07:07 PM   #48
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mur'phon
But why do we need to know the progression of our mother tounge? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy things like tracing words to get as close to the source as possible, it's just that I don't see the point for every child to learn about that....I'm a bit curious of how learning an obsolete way of spelling improves the spelling of current english.
When you sound some of the words out, it helps us understand why we spell things the way we do today. There were a few words from Beowulf and other very early English writers that look very strange until you sound them out--then I could see the pattern develop that turned it into the modern equivalent. I was able to apply those pattern to similar words, and it helped with spelling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mur'phon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
The reason why Shakespeare stays relevant is because his plays and poetry describe the human condition so well--love, betrayal, jealousy, honor, grief, courage, and so on. Those kinds of themes are timeless.
But shouldn't it be up to each person to decide wether or not they find it relevant? If it is as you say, plenty of people will read him anyway, the only difference is that people don't have to read him.
I think issues of life and death are rather relevant for all of us at some point, don't you? Shakespeare conveys a lot of insight on humanity in some very interesting plays and poetry. He's done it better than many other writers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura
Shakespeare often required me to go back and reread the same thing multiple times because I missed a logical operator (and, or, not) and it flipped the meaning completely. Wordy descriptions of a tree are not always great to have because we almost all know about what trees look like... a tropical tree might be different, though. The sample I saw actually was quite impressive, but it made a statement that made even a very simple thing very elaborate to think about.
It would have made more sense if we still spoke that way today. Once you've read several of his works, it flows more readily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura
Concise writing should be to essentially make your wording easy to understand... good vocabulary or technical terms are what writers often use to produce fewer, more concise terms than simple, lengthy descriptions... which are what I would expect from inexperienced writers.
This is what I expect from an inexperienced writer in creative writing. It's what I expect from an experienced non-fiction writer. The two are very different. In creative writing (which is what Shakespeare was doing), your goal is to allow the reader to experience the people and events in a play, story, or poem. One of the ways you do that is to be as descriptive as possible of the scene, the people, the events. That's what makes the story pop to life.

Concise is not equivalent to 'efficient'. I can make this statement more concise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes
"The tree had green leaves that moved in the wind."
"The green tree leaves moved in the wind."
Neither are very artistic. In fact, both statements are rather boring to read.

Likewise, verbosity and flowery language does not make something poetic. One can use the language poetically and creatively, yet still be efficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes
"The tree held upon its branches a thousand emerald butterflies, each fluttering their delicate wings in rhythm with the unpredictable flow of the wind, proving order to chaos."
For instance:
"Thousands of emerald leaves perched on the tips of the tree branches, fluttering a delicate rhythm in the swirling wind."

The butterfly is implied with the perching and fluttering and the wing-like structure of many leaves. Rhythm automatically is a form of order, so 'proving order to chaos' becomes superfluous. Swirling winds are typically unpredictable flows of wind, so changing that phrase cut 2 words. I cut out just shy of 30% of the words without losing the meaning or the emotional tone. A poet probably could make it even more compact but just as poetic.

The entire feeling can also be changed by altering just a few words, and it'll become something entirely different:
"Thousands of dark green leaves gripped the ends of the tree branches, beating a martial cadence against the howling storm winds."


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

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Last edited by Jae Onasi; 04-08-2009 at 07:12 PM.
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