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Old 04-12-2009, 06:24 AM   #27
Darth Avlectus
@Darth Avlectus
I'd buy that for a dollar
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: My pervert mansion
Posts: 4,397
Current Game: A dirty old man.
Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura View Post
Well there is an issue with overcrowded prisons vs. the death penalty. The cost of capital punishment... in terms of dollars is WAY too high to make sense on a massive scale. That is a flaw in the justice system and not my first solution to deal with life sentence without parole.
There are other, cheaper, humane methods that are quick and painless. Also, what are we paying executors so damn much for? It's not like they're squeamish and suffer emotional trauma every time they execute someone or else they wouldn't take the job.

When you have inmates working, they have incentive to cut their sentence for each day they provide community service. When you condemn someone to life in prison without any hope of parole, you might as well pay the millions to legally execute someone because they would forever be a weight on the economy. Those who have some incentive to work would be able to pay for themselves at the very least through what they generate, but those who have nothing to gain wouldn't have reason to do this.
Conceded partially, but I should like to point out that's only the lighter side of things. To keep it short: prisons who do not rehabilitate effectively and only care about income for holding quotas.

However my attitude pretty much is, yeah, if they are a weight on society with no hopes or chances of bettering, get rid of them. Be done with it

I guess my main issue is the severity of the sentence for murder essentially condemning a teen long before he even became an adult. If serial killers can manage to get the possibility for parole, then why not Lotts? If Lotts doesn't get that option, then why would older serial killers have much more hope of rehabilitation?
The system is ****ed up. Double standards, maybe.

A side note: I wish I could take those cloaks and oak hammers away from judges who let sick people walk who shouldn't...maybe "judge" them back with a nice hard konk on the head while I'm at it.

The younger ones do have more potential to change than older ones. I'll agree there. Still, the kid knew what he was doing. It was wrong, even in outrage. I'd of course take everything into consideration that I possibly could before judging him.

Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
You do realize that people who are "mortified" after killing, show genuine remose for their crime, get lighter sentences(unless you pre-plan a killing spree of say, a dozen people, then remorse won't get you anywhere).
Not to any great effect that would relatively matter anyway.

The problem with community service is the "community" part. You can't exactly trust a criminal, who is probably rather diseased, around the food supply, you can't trust rapists around women, pedophiles around children, murderers around people in general. That's the whole point of prison, to isolate people from the society that they harmed, and punish them for their actions.
Sums up my thoughts and pretty much was the conclusion I came to in general. Certain things, there is no, and should be no, compromise. There is just no rehabilitating people who just won't change. Certain things, there is no other answer but to punish.

As to this case, it is unusual in its circumstances, so certain exceptions could perhaps be made, but not lightly by any stretch whatsoever. I know I am still rather skeptical since the kid KNEW what he was doing, and the intent could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. To take a life in general is no easy decision.

Also there is some meat to the idea that many judges who try kids unfairly give them harsh sentences, from petty crime to murder, they receive disproportionate sentencing, this however, is often the fault of the judge, not the system, or perhaps the prosecutor.
Or fanatical lunatics disguised as such people.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Man View Post
Also, slightly off topic since you were getting at the severity of punishments, If a little kid touches you inappropriately, you get charged. IF you just sit outside a room that your friends are robbing, you get tried for it, and if you just walk away without saying anything, its assumed that you are giving consent to it.
Yes, and I'm afraid that goes into territory with a whole mess of plotting on maybes, unknowns, and other stuff that is basically hearsay without any solid evidence. A vehichle by which many an injustice could be carried out. You do raise a good point for another thread. Feel free if you'd so desire to make one.

My caveat to punishment for taking the life of another would be: exception in the case of defense. Defense of self or another proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Originally Posted by SW01 View Post
I think this case is another prime example of a situation in which the courts, judges and prison services will simply be unable to win. They invoke the wrath of various groups for keeping this person in prison for life without parole, yet it is almost a certainty that if a convicted murderer was to be released, and should kill again, they would all still be criticised for releasing him - 'rehabilitated' or not. There will always be that strain between Victims groups and Prisoners groups.
Ah, How fundamental: a no-win situation. Also begs the question of society and testing its will for seeing true justice served VERSUS just satisfying its passions and prejudices. Just something for everyone to think about.

Concerning your emphasis upon "data" and citing media as a source for it: I'd agree it's not kosher. It's a rather ugly sibling to real research but what the two do have in common is that they do, in thesis, take a side of an issue, support it, and argue it. Since most general populace won't be bothered with nitty-gritty details anyway, media is so successful on convenience and ease of availability, as opposed to rigor and merit seen of real research.

@ Sabretooth: you do raise a good point and shine light on yet another issue: correctional ethics vs correctional economics.

Possibly off-topic post, and potential for spiralling into capital punishment/life imprisonment thread.
Feel free to start one.

That's right, Bixby Snyder folks.
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