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Old 11-08-2009, 07:36 PM   #26
jonathan7
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I hadn't been intending to post here, but Murph requested I respond, so here goes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten-96 View Post
My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the wounded and the dead victims.
I second this; obviously this is an awful and horrible event and the victims have my sympathies.

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Originally Posted by Ten-96 View Post
The shooter, however; is a different story.
I'm not familiar with your religious background, however if it is of a Christian tradition I would urge you to pray for the shooter too. Jesus said to love our enemies, and to be honest I think the kind of personthat would go and indiscriminately fire on innocent individuals who are also colleagues and friends is actually in need of more prayer than the victims; in the sense that he is a lot further from God than any of them. It is of course good to remember Jesus reaction to his Roman killers "Forgive them father for they do not know what they do" or to remember that the Apostle Paul was a mass-murderer of Christians before his experience on the Damascus road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten-96 View Post
I have been researching the Islamic religion as of late and have found some interesting points.
I speak now, as someone who has widely travelled the Middle East and worked in a Muslim country - where have you researched and what have you read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten-96 View Post
Many tout the Islamic religion as one of peace. In their Qur'an, it is taught that there will be peace - once all people recognize Islam as their religion.
Firstly have you read the Qur’ān? For the record I have read the entire thing. I would say it is always very inadvisable to form opinions based on commentaries and the thoughts, opinions and conjecture of others. Especially if it is based off information from websites, which are frankly often questionable in their content, academic publications are far more useful. The Qur’ān can be seen to teach many things, the above is one such belief, widely held by many Muslim's but not a universal belief; like Christianity, Islam has many sects and "denominations" despite a Muslim's claim of them being united.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten-96 View Post
Until such a time, muslims are told in the Qur'an to offer non-believers three choices: conversion, subjugation (slavery) or death. The Qur'an also counsels followers to kill and make war with non-believers. (This site: Jihad Watch is one of the sites I regularly visit.)
Firstly, having briefly reviewed that website, I would advise the content is very questionable. Second reading the Qur’ān is a very complicated affair as it says very different things in different portions; the Meccan revelations are very different in tone and attitude to Christians and Jews to the Median revelations.

The Meccan Sura, are generally much more positive towards Christians and Jews, calling the former "men of the book" to be consulted on matters of faith. However the Median Sura, which followed Muḥammad's rejection by Christians and Jews are much more aggressive to those of none Muslim faith which calls for them to be killed by the Sword; so it depends which part of the Qur’ān you accept as to your attitude to non-believers if you are a Muslim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten-96 View Post
I realize that not all followers of Islam practice all of those things. That doesn't make it a peaceful religion, though.
The action of a religions followers, I don't think define a religion as peaceful or violent. It's hardly as if Christianity has a wonderful past; general Islamic attitudes were much more acceptive towards Christianity until the Crusades, and indeed all through the Middle Ages, Muslims treated the Jewish far better than the Christians did. More over Christian Conquistadors battered Inca infants heads in to kill them to guarantee them a place in heaven! If you say they aren't real Christians, cannot the same be said for Muslim terrorists?

That said, I confess, I am not a fan of Islam, but I think this the most complex of matters which is far too often simplified and stereotyped. I think we would do well to remember that the Islamic terrorists, have killed far more of their "fellow Muslims" than they have Westerners.

In the end returning this back to the subject of the Gun man, there are many Muslims in the US Armed Forces who faithfully serve their country, and it would be a shame to tarnish them with the same brush as the evil done by Major Malik Nadal Hasan. Again our thoughts must go out to the victims, and I dare say the family of Major Hasan, it must be a terrible thing to have a relative do such evil things.



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
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