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Old 01-09-2010, 11:06 PM   #19
Darth Avlectus
@Darth Avlectus
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: My pervert mansion
Posts: 4,397
Current Game: A dirty old man.
Most recently the right here in the U.S. has shot itself in the foot. Touting etical and moral business practices, but turn around and do something greedy. With everyone else being set such a bad example by these large businesses, how are we to expect anyone else to behave in the same ideal ethical and moral fashion doing honorable business?

To which one friend of me said "***dammit, there you go talking in feudal terms again. Get with the times, real men play dirty business."

Guess I'm an idealist.

Originally Posted by mur'phon View Post
This thread is basically for discussing why the fairly common alliance between those supporting right-wing economic policies and the religious institutions. Also should this alliance should continue? Now I know this alliance doesn't exist everywhere, the liberation preachers in Latin America is a good example, but in most western states, and in countless developing countries this alliance persist.
Not sure I follow on the same page. You mean specifically in America or the world over? North America? What exactly? Or are you generalizing?

Why does it exist? As I understand it, there was originally free market where you had farmers bartering and trading, no currency except gold and precious materials were involved.

Then someone decided to come along and make currency because "compensation" was needed, and it was done with the purpose of "Capital", to make as much as possible for your products. Hence Capitalism was born...or something like that.

Jump forward a bit: Ethical business is the strive. The more one touts it and yet acts contrary to it, the worse it makes the faith look that the one represents. On the other side of the coin, it makes you look better when you do live up to it, but the problem here is parasitic customers who take advantage of you, and competitors who stop at nothing to take you out of business.

It is good to let your principles guide your business actions, but so often I see good behavior punished. I want to say it is a sensible alliance, but the rest of the world will not allow that to survive. Government regulation is supposed to back this but all too often I see corruption in government for much the same reason I see corruption in capitalism: Human Nature.

Yet if nothing is done, one way or another, to ensure that people act fairly towards one another, justce is not served.

Originally Posted by vanir View Post
For example, many of the things viewed as religious dogma by revolutionaries of conservatives are quite plainly expressed as existential observation. My experience, where it differs from yours, is your religion if you are to adhere to it without understanding it. Not the same thing as calling it my religion.
So it's a conflating of concepts? OR What do you mean here?
I get the impression that you mean that one's actions are not necessarily indicative of the whole picture.

Example: When I used to not believe, it was because of the actions/justifications of spotty behavior with God of one unscrupulous person or group, etc. and it tainted my view of faith as a whole. Eventually I saw how it was much the same as prejudice of hasty generalizations, just different form.

Essentially: Faith and business/economic policy can be good policy if carried out the correct way, if done in a way that perverts it, it could be a terrible and perhaps tyrannical combination.

As you allude between cultures, and indeed between demographics, perceptions will differ and hence misunderstanding is commonplace. So we have politics, because whilst you have the right to live as you will in a lawful manner, so do I and yet our manners and celebrations are entirely different.
Our definition of right and wrong, responsibility and obligation will often be entirely different.
Isn't there any universal agreement on this subject in general?

The proverbial political concern of arriving at a dictatorship like Hitler's Germany for example, is strictly conservative in nature. The US Constitution could be said to have been mooted in a fit of conservatism. Want to break new ground? Could wind up with another Stalin. Pure leftist is to slide the entire structure off the table in a sweeping motion and invent new ideas.

But ideas always come from primordeal inspirations, do they not? The most ancient conservatism of all. Could it be revolution at its very core is the beating chest of an ape attempting to challenge its bull male?
The epitome of right and leftist respective policy staring at each other across the table, were Hitler and Stalin in fact very far removed from each other at a grass roots level? Methinks the only change was who/why genocide.
I guess I'm inclined to agree but I'm still not quite sure what you mean in terms of relevance to this topic?

Right and leftist is a constant and as you said relative. Specific context and considered response irrespective of sentimentality is going to win the day, but there is always something else which comes up, some piece of corruption to mute honesty. The economy, or public order, etc.
This is the fundamental problem with trying to inject moral and ethical standards into an economic structure is that it always has a counter-force acting against it. Times change and evolve, and so does necessity. And yet if there is no form to the foundations, it is all mud and no structure can survive on a foundation which was corrupt to begin with. This is the tragedy of it all is that a foundation may one day give up its principals (by hook and crook if not out of necessity) in order to move forth. At some point it will no longer be recognizable as the system it once was if it even survives that long.

Originally Posted by vanir View Post
What I'm saying is what you might see as religion in politics sometimes isn't.
I theorized that certain truths were universal and self evident, regardless of faith or lack thereof. Pity I never followed it up, but maybe this is an opportunity.

Originally Posted by mur'phon View Post
Vanir: I hardly see the relevance of your post, I stated in my first post that I was interested in the alliance between religion and right wing economic politics. What these policies happen to be will wary depending on the political equilibrium in a given country. This is not a problem for the topic at hand because placing a political party's economic policy on a left-right scale relative to the equilibrium is usually fairly easy.
Well, the ethics in business stemming from religion are not unique to the "right" though as you pointed out they are probably more typical of the right. Perhaps you have examples on your mind that raised these questions so that we can all see where you specifically are coming from?
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