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Old 01-30-2010, 05:40 PM   #52
Darth Avlectus
@Darth Avlectus
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Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
I don't think it's said that the Sith Emperor was responsible for their fall the dark side. Instead, I think it is implied that he was the one who made them Sith (which, if you think about it, would mean that Revan, Malak, and all of their followers were indeed true Sith, despite what Kreia said). Remember, falling to the dark side and joining the Sith are not the same thing, and they need not necessarily occur at once.
True. While Exar Kun had fallen, Ulic Qel Droma wasn't as committed to the dark side. The spirit of that ancient sith lord Naga Sadow more or less 'inducted' both of them into the sith order.

Dude, I believe we (collectively) have been through this many times on these forums now: The "true Sith" mentioned in the loading screen was obviously a throw-away line that they intended to do nothing with. And it clearly does not refer to the same group that Kreia refers to. In the loading screen, seems clear (sorry to be so redundant here) that "true Sith" refers to the Sith species seen in the Tales of the Jedi comics, in order to differentiate between them and the mostly human Sith seen in the game.
I believe in addition to this it is chronicled somewhere in EU that the sith species actually died out.

The "true Sith" mentioned in The Sith Lords originally referred to something else entirely, having nothing to do with the line of succession that was a hybrid of the Sith species and the exiled Dark Jedi from the Hundred-Year Darkness (despite the claims LucasArts is making to the contrary now, Obsidian clearly had something else in mind back when they made the game);
I agree. We're not "just some small band of people who happens to dislike it along with any other release", we actually see what's happening. An about-face where LA decided in its infinite wisdom to change something in mid-stride. I wonder now if LA isn't bluprinting their things based on a "retcon-cameo-rehash" basis. Certainly would make sense given what we're seeing, and have continued to see.

but now it refers to the remnant of the Old Sith Empire that has been plotting in secret from the Unknown Regions, fleeing known space after the Great Hyperspace war.

Sorry to sound so snappy, but I'm getting a little tired of people trying to point out that the "true Sith" idea came from the first game when it obviously did not.
Well, isn't there that one mention by canderous in K1 that it hadn't originally been the mandalorians' idea to attck? Shem brought up some pictures of it some time back... Something about a mention of ancient sith that sealed themselves away from the galaxy after the war started. Still could have been idealist remnants, as that vader-malak-esque guy in the Deceived trailer looked to be still pretty human.

In fact, I doubt very much that BioWare ever anticipated that that one line from the loading screen - which was obviously used without much thought to describe something very simple to the audience - would gain so much attention later on.
Neither did any of us.

Originally Posted by Litofsky View Post
After reading over this thread, I can't help but agree with the majority: it seems that the developers want to disassemble all of the ideas that TSL laid down, and stick with their ideas about Revan. Way to keep to canon.

At any rate, I was iffy about the game being from the beginning, what with all of us having to pay monthly for the game. Destroying the a decent plot to fit in with their game is just another kick while we're down.
I agree. While it is going on the true sith idea in TSL and a few other small things about it.

Like this.

Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
Y'know, considering that TSL was an unfinished and badly-enacted retcon of KotOR in the first place, I'm not feeling any outrage at TOR at all.
That's your opinion. Not fact.

I happen to think TSL was great and could have been so much better had LA not been a bunch of greedy b@$t@rd$.

Retcon #1 (and the most egregious, in my opinion) was the (Krea's) claim that the Jedi Council wiped Darth Revan's memories and then gave him a new identity loyal to the Republic,
IIRC Darth Malak said the same thing upon Revan's memory of who we was. So that's not exactly retcon.

but all statements concerning this in KotOR stated simply that the Jedi Council couldn't RESTORE Revan's personality "since Revan was too dangerous"; to me this implies that Revan's loss of memory was more due to cerebral damage that the turbolaser explosion on the bridge inflicted by Malak's attack before Bastilla saved Revan's life.
Oh? I thought Revan remembered it later on? Hence he went to the outer rim to face the threat?

That implies the council chose not to recover the memories of "Revan" because having a dark lord on their hands was
1) going to be impossible to sway back to the light
2) too dangerous
3) too vital to simply execute because of what he knew

If you think they ALL don't execute their prisoners, I only need remind you of Mace Windu...or let's go back some: Ulic Qel Droma and how the jedi were presiding over the senate about to execute Ulic Qel Droma. True the jedi weren't DOING the execution but even if you play with semantics this way, Jedi standing by and intent on watching the execution is about the same as doing it.

Add to this the (completely fanon) idea that Krea is Arren Kae (and thus the Handmaiden's mommy),
Hmm, let's see...
Disciple said Arren Kae was Revan's first instructor.
Kreia knew a lot about Arren Kae.
Arren Kae WAS Brianna's mother.
Kreia seemed to discourage a male exile from wanting to mate with Brianna.
There's probably more, but...

Ok, there is nothing that DEFINITIVELY makes that link, but that cuts both was as there issn't anything that definitively DISPROVES it, either.
...However Chris Avellone wrote TSL and when questioned upon that point he said he couldn't comment but "nice catch" which implies he had something to do with the implied idea. He's prevented from saying any more because of LA.

the near-ineffectiveness of the Exile (who can't seem to make a lightsaber without an engineer on hand, or even WITH one if the previous ten years is accounted for),
That was a game mechanism for those who may be first time players. :¬:
Furthermore, the exile seemed to have some issue with building another since her exile, regardless what dialogue options you chose.

Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
Nice catch!

Originally Posted by deathdisco View Post
It all depends how damaged his mind was. Bastila says it was too damaged to fully restore his memories but we know that eventually he does regain them.
Implying some opportunistic selective recovery of his memories.

Was it programed to fill in what was missing(blank slate) or was it reprogramed to suppress the "Darth Revan" persona?
Both in a sort of way, fill in the blanks at first but the whole time supress the memories from coming back as long as posible, though they perhaps knew one day Revan would remember.

<bervity (source)>
Another nice catch.

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Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 01-30-2010 at 05:53 PM.
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