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Old 02-24-2011, 07:58 PM   #22
Lord of Hunger
Hunger, The Lord Of
 
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Glenn View Post
The new Governor has decided to change things up a bit... when I lived in WI, it was a fully Democrat led state, and since then has changed, significantly. I lean left, but see myself as mostly in the middle, in that both parties disgust me, only slightly less than the Tea Party.
Which tea party? You've noted a movement with no structural or ideological unity. Tea Party groups have beliefs from all over the spectrum save for the far left.
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So, the new gov gets into office, immediately spends $137 million, then claims that the state has an enormous budgetary shortfall of $141 million (gosh, gee, who spent that money). As a result, he feels that things must change rapidly, ala the Tea Party/radical right, and that spending must be slashed.
Please define radical right. Compared to some other countries, our "conservatives" are progressive.
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Essentially, the long and the short of what is going on is an immensely unethical power grab, forcing the Democrats in the state senate to flee to Illinois so that they will not be available for voting, as otherwise their voice will be completely ignored and the vote will be final - as they cannot win any vote against the majority party at this time, and the Gov is unwilling to do anything through the normal political process of actually discussing things openly.
Wait, wasn't it the choice of those Senators to flee in order to delay the vote?
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Instead, he has wealthy financiers (from states FAR from WI) backing him,
What successful politician doesn't?
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men who dislike unionization and paying state employees a fair wage.

The result - state employees that are not Firemen or Police are forced to accept as much as a 20% pay cut to fix the budget... why are the Firemen and Police protected??? Oh, that's right, they supported his campaign.
Probably.
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I am ok with people disliking Unions. I am a Union member and am very greatful for my Union, but I know also that many Unions have made business nearly unreasonable in some markets. That said, Unions are as American as apple pie, and for as many wrongs as they have committed, they have done at least twice the benefit to the working people of America. 40 hour work weeks - thank Unions, even if you are not a member: they exist because of Unions. Overtime pay- thanks to Unions. Workman's Compensation - thank a Union.
All true.
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The long term ramifications are hard to know. I guarantee one thing - this will spark a lot of discussion nationally, and I also know this - it will be lambasted strongly by Californians and New Yorkers.... where most of the people in this country live, BTW. And for good reason - if the people of WI want to disband Unions, fine - but do it through open discussion and debate, rather than forcing quick votes and ram-rodding legislation through because "they can" as the opposition party is weak at the moment.
1) That's politics.
2) The Republicans in that state make a claim that the people of Wisconsin have given them a mandate to stand up to unions. True or not, they have been elected to majority rule. If the people of Wisconsin, as a whole, felt that unions are worth protecting they would not have voted the way they did.
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Sad state of affairs, I am disgusted, and very saddened that one of my best friends is facing a $6000 annual pay cut as the result of the governance.... All he does is insure that infirm and old and disabled veterans receive healthy and sufficient nutrition while they recover or fade away.
I am sorry to hear that.
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Then, think of his employees, many of them grown men and women with families to raise. Their $11.82/hour gig for cooking said foods is about to be chopped by nearly a quarter.... who can have a good life or even "make a living" at that rate of pay? Sure, kids might think that's a good wage.... by adult standards, it is a very sad state of affairs. He lives in a small community called Waupaca, and 30/40% of the folk their are employed at the Veterans Home. I can see the local businesses shuttering.... as there is no more money for anything but the BAREST of necessities.

If you live in Wisconsin, take a look at what is going on.
Unfortunately, this is a national phenomena in varying degrees.
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I don't care what your political affiliation is, think of the repercussions of what the gigantic douche-nozzle you allowed to be elected is doing to your state and communities. If you are for what is going on, state your argument - If it is at all defensible, I will be shocked.

Please think critically. Remember that each of us has a voice. Educate yourself. If after that, you agree with what is going on, perhaps we can have the discussion that Wisconsin currently refuses to.
Well as a non-Wisconsin resident, I neither support nor object to what is going on in your state. I can sympathize with your position (I know many people personally facing similar problems), however I will note that this situation has been years in the making. America can no longer sustain a half-assed hybrid of free market capitalism and state welfare. Either it must be reformed into a streamlined version or we will have to choose between either economic theory. The choice will be tough and it will hurt.

That being said, throwing around the word fascism does nothing useful. Yes, I know: you're angry. You have every justification. But you pointed out that people are disconnected from politics. True or not, if our nation's political dialog is nothing more than character jabs then why would anyone connect with that. No, I'm not calling for our rhetoric to be toned down. Quite the opposite: I hope it heats up but with real issues rather than misused terms like "socialist" and "fascist". Doubting each others' patriotism only weakens the States.


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