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Old 08-03-2011, 06:18 PM   #106
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 115
Current Game: SWTOR, Skyrim
Thanks for the compliment! I just read through the whole arguments here and tried to put it all in context.

As for Revan vs. Sidious in indirect power, you make a valid point. For me it's somewhat murky, but I think we can agree that both were insanely talented in that area.

Also, you are right that Star Wars is the tragic story of Darth Vader. If there was no EU, that would still be true. The trouble is the discrepancies between the movies and EU. The idea behind the movies is that Anakin is the Chosen One and he does in fact destroy the Sith. Even Lucas said, IIRC, that yes, Anakin is still the Chosen One despite falling to the dark side.

Of course, the EU completely subverts this. I could understand, in the context of the movies, there still being lots of turmoil in the galaxy, what with Imperial remnants and Coruscant still being captured - in essence villains like Zsinj, Isard, and Thrawn - but the EU keeps dishing out more Sith. Heck, Exar Kun was still around when Vader killed Palpatine.

So, to directly answer your question: without the EU, no I don't think the supremacy of Luke could be asserted. In some ways, however, Vader's couldn't be definitely asserted, either, given that it falls to Luke to redeem him so that he can fulfill his destiny.

However, given that Vader is one of the few characters in all 6 movies and that the movies are undoubtedly his story, then I would have to agree that, without the EU, Vader has the supreme "destiny" or "signficance", whatever that's worth.

One thing to keep in mind is that, just because a character is the central figure of a story, does NOT necessarily mean he is the central figure of that whole setting/universe. Darth Vader was the central figure in that era of Star Wars, it could be argued, but others have had equal or greater destinies in other times and places, Revan being the obvious example. (The whole KotOR era practicallly revolves around him, at least after the Sith War of Qel-Droma and Exar Kun.)

As far as Lucas (and therefore the movies) is concerned, Anakin is it. The be all end all.

As far as the EU, however, that's much murkier, and I stand by my declaration that, in the context of the EU, Luke is both the central figure and the most powerful.

I'll add three quick notes to this, because, yes, I AM that long-winded.

1) I have to wonder what would have happened, if at that critical moment, Anakin obeyed Mace Windu's directive to stay in the Jedi Temple during his arrest of Palpatine. It's possible Palpatine would have killed Windu (IF the theory that he was only faking weakness in order to manipulate Anakin, is true, which we have no way of knowing one way or the other), but Padme would have lived. Anakin might have gone on to become a Jedi Master (as Obi-Wan hinted earlier in the movie), thought there probably would have some friction between him and the Jedi once his secret family was revealed. Padme I suspect would have gone on to become Chancellor one day, though Bail Organa would undoubtedly be the one to immediately succeed the deposed Palpatine.

Anakin Skywalker could have gone on to chair a revived golden age of the Republic and the Jedi Order, more influential and powerful, in time, than Yoda.

2) What about The Sky Walker? Not canon, but only hinted at in early scripts of Lucas, this was the first Force user, from whose 12 children came all Force traditions. How powerful or significant (in terms of destiny) would he have been?

3) As far as sheer POWER, if anyone had ever controlled the Valley of the Jedi (from Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight), they would have been far and away the most powerful person in the galaxy (universe?). Rahn's spirit mentions things like casually detonating stars across the galaxy with a thought, and other such fun things.

4) Okay, I lied when I said three notes, or that they would be quick. But you'll still read, cuz you're as big a Star Wars nerd as I am.

One thing that confused me when I was younger was what was originally called the "wall of light" Force power but which has more recently been referred to as "sever Force". Palpatine, in Dark Empire #6, despite his impressive Force storm, is defeated by three powerful Jedi (Luke, Leia, and the unborn Anakin Solo) creating a "wall of light" around him.

But Jerec, in the graphic novel "Jedi Knight" (which novelizes the game Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight), is defeated by ONE Jedi (Kyle Katarn) wrapping him a similar wall of light, despite Jerec's powers (the aforementioned Valley of the Jedi) being so much greater than Palpatine's.

Then of course, in the Sith War comic, Exar Kun has to be taken out by thousands of Jedi unleashing a wall of light, despite not showing any powers as impressive as Force storms or that of the Valley as told by Rahn.

Silly me, expecting a fictional setting written in by dozens of writers, to be consistent.
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