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Old 11-28-2011, 01:11 AM   #112
Darth Avlectus
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Why don't you come with me...
Posts: 4,276
Current Game: Poisoning pigeons in the park.
Let me apologize in advance for the long post, I guess I'm just loving this too much.

Man, this book is harder to get in person at the bookstore than anything I've come across lately. Sold out *every* time Barnes and Noble has gotten a shipment in. Crazy. Probably won't be able to get it in person until january at this rate. Everyone ordered most of them from B&N online so there were only a small group in person and those sold out in a few hours of release. Looks like the case with every shipment that has come in thereafter.

Sorry no review yet.

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Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
OK, you caught me. Iīm Spanish, and my English level is quite basic, I donīt get what "poor godkin" means, and something tells me is better not to ask.
GODKING is the name of another LF member...one who mistook me and at least one other member for girls because of our avatars. Poor fella.


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OK, I am a Jedi Guardian, duelist, with the Mantle of the Force and a blue-violet blade from a mod (as you can see in some images), with one of the characterīs robe of the "PSR" but the appereance of one of the masterīs robe of the "k1robemodels" mod (I have mixed those mods).
I just find curious that Revan uses 5 different blades using just one lightsaber, being duelist (canon), in 6,7 years. Perhaps he isnīt very sure which color is his favourite one .
It changes along with him.

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What I mean is that they have added it according to the novel, I am thinking about remembering it wasnīt there before, another move for making it canon.
If you'll refer to the Darth Bane novels, you will see that he has had a habit of semi-retconning things. Changing the slight details. Bane was just an obscure and otherwise anonymous sith and Revan hadn't been thought up yet. Plus the existing works on him prior didn't go very far. The Jedi vs Sith war, some of the aftermath and Bane's visit to Dxun, and that's pretty much it iirc.

He's retconned a few things about K1 it appears and some things about K2. I'll accept his story with a grain of salt, and maybe do my own personal reconciling retcon of all things to set it straight.


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Yes, I choose that face too. I think itīs very good as it is, there is no reason for complicating it, and I think is much better than he is described in www.starwars.wikia.com/Revan:
"Revan was an unprepossessing man, with fair skin and black hair. Neither tall, nor particularly handsome. Indeed, Revan described his own features as "unremarkable" and "average". During the Mandalorian Wars Revan took to wearing his hair long, sometimes tied back and sometimes flowing freely past his shoulders. However, after having his memories altered by the Jedi Council Revan maintained a shorter style. At somepoint before or after his conscription aboard the Endar Spire Revan grew a beard, which he wore throughout the Jedi Civil War, and after. This beard eventually became a trademark part of his appearance. So much so, that after being awarded the Hero's Cross Revan shaved it off and ceased wearing Jedi robes in public, seeking to dissasociate himself from the celebrity he had become".
What the ... ! What absolute nonsense! Totally unnecessary!
For personal reasons I can understand anonymity and wanting secrecy. It's a personal taste of mine, but I do agree with you they have otherwise complicated it, retconning the in game appearance. Maybe that's just DK's 'artistic style'? I dunno. Just one of those odd little things I guess.


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I always thought that Revan and Carth finished KotOR being very good friends, so I donīt understand why Revan allowed Carth to think he had gone if Revan was indeed with Bastila for a year more. He tells nothing to one of his best friends? . And time later, in KotOR 2, Bastila tell nothing about that to Carth?
Good catch there, and from how this looks...I'm afraid I can't explain that for others like yourself who probably really liked Carth. It indeed looks like a retcon of what Carth said in K2...perhaps intentionally so. Even with my personal tastes I can't explain the timeline as anything BUT a retcon.

Personally, the game mechanic sort of crammed the companion storylines down your throat; while I indeed helped Carth get his son Dustil back, and perhaps I underestimate how much that would endear me to Carth as a friend...at the same time "all in the line of duty". Also Carth is a bit whiny--at least that's how he came across to me. Still I suppose I too would have been more honest about the timeline, even as much as I prefer my privacy and secrecy.

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If I was Revan, considering that Iīm a hero, a symbol, I would used my reputation, my fame, for reconstructing the Republic and the Order (as GO-TO says in K2), and defeating completely the Sith I created, working to make a strong Republic and Jedi Order, before going to investigate to the Unknown Regions if I think itīs really necessary, because in the novel it seems that Revan remember something of the academy of Trayus at Malachor V, thatīs enough for preparing to face new foes, not The True Sith, but foes in the end, as it happens in KotOR 2.
Problem with that is that visions happen when they happen. You don't choose, you choose to heed its message or warning or you don't.

"Always in motion the future is."
--Yoda

And the way it works is that shatterpoints in the force are constantly moving just like life everywhere. When Kreia talks about the force, its eddies and currents, following the "fracture" to its core, she is talking about this very thing. She may be being deceptive but on such a matter as this I doubt she's deceiving you: she hates the force and wants to kill it.

Revan could have acted upon his visions later, and tactically that is a smarter move than what he did, I agree. However from the chapter 11 "peek", I think it is safe to say that if Revan did not act when he did, Canderous Ordo might not have gotten the Mandalore's the helmet. The other Mandalorian clan was closing in on where it was to be found, or so I am lead to believe. I don't know that for sure but it is not an unreasonable ....speculation.

If you'll indulge me on shatterpoints a little more:
Show spoiler



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Kreia:
"Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyony knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil."
^^^This.


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Iīm sure you agree when I say that the awesome "BoS:RS" is the best mod for K1.
I'm sorry but I can't say that I do. I have tried out the demo version, but the writing and dialogue just stuck out way too much for me to want to download and play the full thing later on.

(I have nothing against you personally SilverEdge! You display plenty of initiative and you get results!)


Also, what did I say it makes out of yoU and ME when you ASSume?


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I am a little of agreement.
*brevity* Because itīs a bussiness.
Well, we all see that now. When I finally get my hands on the novel and read it for myself, I'll make the decision for myself. So far it sounds like a big massive cluster F%*#. I do wish, though, things being business didn't have to botch and intrude on existent stories so much.

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I want more about Revan and his companions too, preferably something "alive" in which we could say or do something (I mean a game), and not something done/written, but the choice passed away (KotOR 2 and 3). Now I think Revan and all the original story are misplaced. *brevity* Iīm not very convinced, but itīs what it is. Letīs see what they do.
Suspension of disbelief is optional.



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Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
As I keep saying, let's not forget that the incarnation of the Sith seen in the upcoming MMO was completely inspired by KOTOR 2. I'd say that's pretty major. Granted, they went completely against what Obsidian had in mind for the "true Sith," but the idea originated with Obsidian.
I thought the tales of the jedi comics (circa ~1996) was where it first was mentioned? I'll give Obsidian credit for attempting to expand and expound upon it where BioWare did not.

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And before anyone says the "true Sith" were Bioware's idea, we've talked about this before: the line that appears in that loading screen in the first game was a throw-away line without much thought behind it, and referred to something entirely different (namely, the Sith species that the exiled Dark Jedi conquered).
I do agree that BioWare was going to ignore it or make much less out of it than Obsidian. So all the people blaming Obsidian for "going way too far in their own direction" need to sit down and be quiet.

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Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
To be honest, I hear Kreia just the half of what she says, because she is a dark jedi, donīt forget she is Darth Traya, she is with you not only for the bound you two share, but because also she is interested in it for her own intentions;
To be fair, I think her motivations changed once she realized she wasn't going to get the remaining Jedi Masters to acknowledge the truth embodied through the Exile, let alone accept it. Up until that point she had been okay and perhaps neutral. So she lashed out in response. Then after that, well there really was nowhere else to go but back to the dark side. Also, she saw in the end she too was part of the problem and had to be eliminated. Since she was an unreliable narrator the best thing she could do as a teacher was ultimately to pit the Exile against herself--and in a way it fell into place because of her insane goal to "kill the force". The Exile had to heal and be strong once again. Kreia gave the Exile no other options, made her face it and overcome it. Kreia did it all for the Exile. Kreia was old and there was no turning back for her by that point.

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And about E. Kunīs faction, that war took place about 35/40 years before the mandalorian wars, almost all of the people who fought there are dead at that moment, except Jolee and a few very old masters. I donīt remember now what Jolee says about that war, if you ask him if all the traitors are dead (something like that).
I admit that there is probable that those Sith survivors from Kunīs faction transmited their knowledge to new Sith students, but I think itīs not the same. And remember that most of the original Darth Revanīs army, or probably all his army, are former Republic soldiers, not those Sith who could join later, right?.
Maybe youīre right, there are always Sith, but these Sith you talk about were weaken, I think they were not prepared for a new war. I think Canderous says about them that they preferred to remain in their own territories, as if the thing was not with them.
That's true, Sion was a part of Kun's army. I wonder, though, if Sion and Kreia weren't friends when they were younger (or perhaps a little more but it fell apart). Like Sion once was a Jedi. Remember Kun and Qel Droma were both fallen Jedi too. Shame they didn't go more in depth on him--I see how he could have been a "tragic villain". He may have been a grunt but it would seem that having love for the canon female Exile would suggest at some point that he might have been a good man.

I too think Sion and his assassins were a band of remnants on their own territory. Also even he was aware something lurked beyond the outer rim in K2.

Shem (or SOMEBODY) actually showed a video of Canderous saying it hadn't originally been the idea of the mandalorians to attack, rather some sith who sealed themselves off once the war had begun. This is not new.

It's debatable whether what was meant at that time:

We had mention of sith species prior to BioWare and KOTOR 1, Lucasarts came up with that. K1 simply has a throwaway line saying the sith species were believed extinct. Obsidian later had the idea of the True Sith. The RP book elaborated on Sion's past as part of the Kunist forces as I pointed out above with the link to Sion's wiki.

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Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
Yeah, exactly, that's just what I was about ti point out. And I've heard the conversation before, and thought it was clear that he was referring to the remaining Kunist forces. From what I gather, there seem to have been quite a few of them left over who were eventually assimilated into Revan's Empire.

Bioware clearly did not come up with the "true Sith" idea. Don't get me wrong, it is obviously true that the retconned stance now is that Canderous was referring to the "true Sith," but that definitely wasn't was Bioware had in mind at the time.
Agreed. I think BioWare wanted to go its own direction, eschewing the sith species, then Obsidian wanted to take it all their direction possibly the Kunists...then LA comes in and decides the ancient sith species isn't extinct but hidden and took it ultimately in their own direction.

Sadly we'll never know now.
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