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Old 03-05-2013, 11:35 AM   #29
TOR ate my KotOR
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Originally Posted by Fallen Guardian View Post
I disagree with this as well.
You can disagree all you want, that doesn't mean you are right.

And neither am I. That is my entire point. Revan/Exile are our individual characters, we were the one playing hours on ending leveling through KotOR and TSL. We made the choices with what to do with our character. Sorry Fallen Guardian and The Lord of Chaos, but my Revan was a flawed character full of remorse for what she had done to the galaxy. She fell to the darkside in her quest for knowledge.

I would also like to point out TOR isn’t the first time Revan was portrayed as a pawn for a stronger entity. What was the plot for the entire story of KotOR, Jedi Council capture Revan, gives her new memories and has her save the galaxy under false pretenses.

Originally Posted by Fallen Guardian View Post
the Exile's character arc didn't end with KotOR II. We were left with the Ebon Hawk flying off to find Revan, which meant that the Exile still had some story to go.
Sorry disagree. What was The Sith Lords about? The Sith Lords?

At the end of TSL you have 3 dead Sith Lords, kind of ends that arc in the story. Looking at it from the light side story, the Exile had regained his/her ability to feel the force, destroyed the Sith Lords threat, all four of them, and founded the start of the new and hopefully improved Jedi order. Also people keep forgetting that following Revan into the Unknown Region is the Exile’s choice. My Exile spent the rest of her life living in the penthouse of the Jedi temple stoned on death sticks and spice. Why would she go chasing after Revan after he/she betrayed her at Malacor V at the end of the Mandalorian wars?

Oh yeah, Revan didn’t fall to the darkside, yet scarified some of the republic’s best troops, for no other reason than they were loyal to the Republic and not him/her. Yeah, no sign of darkside or character flaws with that playable character.

Originally Posted by Fallen Guardian View Post
that is to say, the player's choices as those characters
Yes that is true, but no matter what BioWare did in TOR or even in a KotOR 3, they would have done the exact same thing. Because there is no way for them to make a game that took all the choices and motivations of all the players behind Revan or the Exile into account.
Originally Posted by Fallen Guardian View Post
How did it undermine what is great about KotOR 1 and the Star Wars universe?
Did you even play the game or listen to what she said, or did you just skip that?

Kreia said something to the effect that Revan went darkside to save the galaxy. Can we agree with that?

Well that goes against much of what Yoda has to say.

““Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

“To answer power with power, the Jedi way this is not. In this war, a danger there is, of losing who we are.”

“Stopped they must be; on this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.”

“Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.
Luke: But tell my why I can't...
Yoda: No, no! There is no "why".”

So yeah, not really sure how being evil to do good fits in the star wars universe.

Originally Posted by Bob Saget View Post
Saying that Revan was better off without TSL's insight into him is a fallacy.
If that is directed at me, then I did not say that. I did mean Kreia took it too far, but we have to remember Kreia is a manipulator and was not above lying or stretching the truth to steer the Exile in the direction she wanted. She may have been overstating Revan’s power to motivate the Exile to a higher level. If you are going to take Kreia for gospel, then you have to admit, the Exile is a stronger Jedi than Revan.

Originally Posted by Bob Saget View Post
TOR in itself would have made a great singleplayer game, but it fails as an MMO.
Games are a matter of opinion, TOR is a great game in my opinion. I could careless what you want to classify it as. Have no clue about other MMO's, but I am having a blast playing endgame stuff with friends in TOR.

Last edited by mimartin; 03-05-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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