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Old 03-05-2013, 04:54 PM   #31
Fallen Guardian
@Fallen Guardian
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Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
You can disagree all you want, that doesn't mean you are right.

And neither am I. That is my entire point. Revan/Exile are our individual characters, we were the one playing hours on ending leveling through KotOR and TSL. We made the choices with what to do with our character. Sorry Fallen Guardian and The Lord of Chaos, but my Revan was a flawed character full of remorse for what she had done to the galaxy. She fell to the darkside in her quest for knowledge.
I don't see how this relates? I said I disagreed that TOR was far superior to KotOR I and KotOR II and I said Revan wasn't made infinitely important, as you said that he/she was. The fact that they're our own characters doesn't play into the fact that you said KotOR II over-hyped Revan... which it didn't.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
I would also like to point out TOR isn’t the first time Revan was portrayed as a pawn for a stronger entity. What was the plot for the entire story of KotOR, Jedi Council capture Revan, gives her new memories and has her save the galaxy under false pretenses.
I don't necessarily dislike the story of Revan being a pawn of Vitiate. I dislike how they took Revan, made a stock, boring canon version of our character, and then worked him into TOR so they'd actually have something in there that was related to the two KotOR games.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Sorry disagree. What was The Sith Lords about? The Sith Lords?

At the end of TSL you have 3 dead Sith Lords, kind of ends that arc in the story. Looking at it from the light side story, the Exile had regained his/her ability to feel the force, destroyed the Sith Lords threat, all four of them, and founded the start of the new and hopefully improved Jedi order. Also people keep forgetting that following Revan into the Unknown Region is the Exile’s choice. My Exile spent the rest of her life living in the penthouse of the Jedi temple stoned on death sticks and spice. Why would she go chasing after Revan after he/she betrayed her at Malacor V at the end of the Mandalorian wars?
The game was focused on the Sith Lords, yes. But there is also the underlying plot of the true Sith returning at some point. Also, in the end of KotOR II, we see the Ebon Hawk flying off into the Unknown Regions to go after Revan. Whether your Exile wanted to or not is of no consequence - the game takes over at that point, with no player choice in the matter.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Oh yeah, Revan didn’t fall to the darkside, yet scarified some of the republic’s best troops, for no other reason than they were loyal to the Republic and not him/her. Yeah, no sign of darkside or character flaws with that playable character.
Uhhhh.... I never said Revan didn't fall to the dark side, or wasn't evil. I just said he had a better reason for his attempted conquest of the Republic than most villains do.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Yes that is true, but no matter what BioWare did in TOR or even in a KotOR 3, they would have done the exact same thing. Because there is no way for them to make a game that took all the choices and motivations of all the players behind Revan or the Exile into account.
True, they could never fully take into account all the possible motivations and decisions. However, they did something similar with Mass Effect, hell they even did it somewhat in KotOR II. Even just having the most basic, largest decisions in KotOR I and II be carried over would have been better than what we got.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Did you even play the game or listen to what she said, or did you just skip that?
Well, if I'd skipped that part I doubt we'd be having this conversation.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Kreia said something to the effect that Revan went darkside to save the galaxy. Can we agree with that?

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Well that goes against much of what Yoda has to say.

““Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

“To answer power with power, the Jedi way this is not. In this war, a danger there is, of losing who we are.”

“Stopped they must be; on this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.”

“Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.
Luke: But tell my why I can't...
Yoda: No, no! There is no "why".”

So yeah, not really sure how being evil to do good fits in the star wars universe.
Who cares what Yoda says? Yoda's teaching HIS and the JEDI'S philosophy to Luke. Last time I checked, the Jedi weren't the only group in the galaxy with their own ideas. Just because what Revan did disagreed with what Yoda believed, doesn't mean it disagrees with every facet of the Star Wars Universe.

The truly fallen cannot return to the light. If someone "falls" and "returns," they never really, truly fell.

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