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Old 05-05-2013, 11:40 PM   #39
CM Punk
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Originally Posted by TKA-001 View Post
It's not about precautions. Her words, actions, and doctrine deliberately tell you to not give a **** about others.

Regarding the "nitpicking" comment: Allow me to retract that; I find rather that it betrays an astonishingly poor understanding of Kreia's character on your part.

How about because "my interpretation" relies on conclusions drawn from examples of what actually happens in the game, rather than blanket statements that I pull from nowhere?

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you quoted.

Yeah? Well, only simpletons keep their holsters filled with revolvers instead of reason.

Your statement implied that Kreia's killing of the Jedi Masters was a reflexive, defensive action taken to protect a person she cared about - which is nonsense, because she only cares about the Exile to the degree to which she can be used as a tool. She doesn't care about what the Exile wants in life, what she feels, or what she believes.

Don't bother actually explaining to me what the problem is, just tell me to figure it out myself.

Irrelevant to the point, which is that you are implying that you condone the act of Kreia screwing with Atton's head on the basis of the things Atton used to do.

Also, "how could she know?" Her ****ing mind-reading powers might have a hand in that. Just a thought.

The problem is, again, that Kreia prolonged his suffering for no particular reason. If she was going to preserve his life, then she ought to have done something other than waste it.


How about Tobin (though the Exile can save him later)? The guy may have been on Valku's side, but in the end he was just a patriot who wanted to protect the independence of his planet, and we don't know of anything particularly evil he did other than fight on Onderon. She sent him to Nihilus to slowly die from Force drainage on his ship. Even supposing he deserved death, did he deserve a death like that?

If he doesn't count, how about the Jedi Masters? I wouldn't be surprised if you (like many others) consider Vrook to be a bigger monster than Malak, but what about Kavar and Zez? Did they deserve death as well?

If they don't count, there were definitely plenty of civilians at Telos who were killed because Kreia drew Nihilus to the system.

Even if none of those count, what you are implying is that because the people Kreia used were evil, it was okay. The problem with that is that she was doing it because she wanted revenge, not because she cared about the well-being of others.

And why does that justify it? Why is it admirable for Kreia to be willing to (by her own words) kill the galaxy for one woman whom she wants to use to carry out her plans?

I'd like a source for that. By all indications, the Mandalorian Wars were going bad for them simply because their sizable military was not well-commanded, nothing to do with the Jedi (who, by the way, were not in the best shape in the aftermath of the Great Sith War).

You may disregard that assertion of mine, however. I would be content if you were to explain how the Republic being weakened by the Jedi justifies Revan's act of declaring war on it.

So you're saying that there was no way to fix/change the form of the Republic's government that, say, would've resulted in a quadrillion or so fewer deaths than the method Revan ended up going with? Also, destroying and taking the assets of the Republic constitutes something completely different from mere change and reform. Even freaking Palpatine's rise to power was legal, as far as anyone knew.

The Republic's alleged ineffectiveness does not justify the deaths Revan caused (numerous civilians and Republic forces deliberately allowed to die in order to corrupt his Jedi in the Mandalorian Wars, the use of a superweapon to destroy all life on Malachor V, the deaths of numerous Republic civilians and military personnel in the Jedi Civil War, and the destruction of Republic planets by Malak which at the very least were tolerated by Revan).

If Revan's aims were half as noble as Kreia says, then he would have brought proof of the True Sith's existence to the Jedi Order and the Republic, and then helped them to strengthen it properly, rather than forming his own Sith Empire and trying to destroy the Republic with it. What is so damn admirable about what he planned to do? It was nothing except trading one Sith domination of the galaxy for another. We see how great it is to live under the Sith Empire in KotOR I.

The hell she does. If there is any person or thing in the entire series that we have any reason to suspect that Kreia lies about or misrepresents, it's Revan.

Revan doesn't prove **** in TSL, most importantly because he isn't in the bloody game. More to the point, it's pretty obvious that Kreia is infatuated with her greatest student, and she has every reason to lie about him - if she admits that what Revan did was wrong, then she also admits that she was a failure in teaching him, and she is unable to accept that.

Don't tell me that Kreia doesn't have a borderline-insane bias in favor of Revan - there is not a single solitary negative thing anywhere in TSL that she says about Revan. All she does is gush and gush and gush like so many fanboys and fangirls.

Play and pay attention to the ****ing game. Kreia's plan is to sustain the Force Wound at Malachor V that was formed when the planet got ****ed up, and it's stated elsewhere in the game that if that wound persists indefinitely, then everyone touched by the Force (i.e, everyone alive) will either be deafened to it or killed.
your deconstruction of Kreia's character in this debate is brilliant and spot on, she is meant to be unreliable more than anything and ultimately her motives aren't justfied nor is her commentary on Revan.

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