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Old 09-24-2002, 02:10 PM   #24
Doctor Shaft
@Doctor Shaft
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Finally, some serious debate. It's about time man, I've been waiting to hammer out where Promod should go with people for awhile now. It's not my mod, but when a mod like this gets good, I feel like it's of personal interest to get as involved as possible.

Fatalstrike = right.

Let's stop kidding ourselves here. This DFA spinning thing is not going to upset the balance of the game. Keep in mind, when a DFA is executed, it has a constant foward motion. Even if it rotates. You could possibly just walk foward and around their attack. Granted, a rotating DFA would effectively allow some players to use the attack and "cover" themselves by simply aiming their attack at the sidestepping opponent. However. while it will probably take away the immediate ability to destroy some good dfa hoppers unless you're good enough at maneuvering, they won't be able to do it endlessly. Why??? Because in order to do another, they most wind up, and swing. Sooo.... you close and destroy before and while the dfa takes off, then get out of the way.

Now, if you'd all follow my suggestions and raise saber damage for all the stances up a notch, or at least give light stance it's due (I'm sorry, that stance, while great defensively, is just too sorry to use exclusively unless the opponent mindless falls into your counter traps), then we'd all be really happy.

Yellow stance back to 1.02!!! YES, I'LL HAVE THAT ONE PLEASE! Seriously, some people are talking about the 'balance' of previous promods being upset by a totally new, or should we say return of an old, stance. This is nonsense. It's promod. The blocking systme is fullproof. If you don't block, it's your fault, not some tactical advantage. Even if yellow stance of old comes back, while it will certainly become a very capable and heavily used offensive stance, it's csc value remains as is. Promod, while giving yo uthe comfort of knowing that you can control the outcome of your blocks, also gives you the discomfort of knowing that your opponent can also control the outcome of his defense breaking. We got a taste of it in the first two promods. I'm a decent player myself, and what little reputation or actual skill I have aside, I went from playing a really fast JK2++, to a more controlled Promod, and found myself continuously overwhelmed by a yellow stance drive. But over time, I acclimated myself to the system, and now understand what needs to be avoided, and also what can very readily be blocked. I'm starting to get comfortable again.

The specials in this game are special, but guess what. They are too special. Just because some guy at Raven wrote in some instruction manual that these moves are 'special' doesn't mena we need to relegate them in a small corner to be used in only certain situations. Rather, they should be very usable moves. They should be tweaked and tuned so that, like any other swing, if you use it over and over again, it won't be a safe move to use.

The problem with specials in the 1.03 - 1.04 trash eras, was that you could do them, and then you got this magical blocking barrier that seemingly covered your skin. So someone would throw yellow stance special, or blue, and i'd see it coming like 2000 years ago, give them a regular swing return... and then find my player's saber knocked off balanced. Promod eliminated this blocking fissure.... although, while I don't know about programming, her'es a thought. When you do certain moves that leave you in animations that make you appear to be open, you can still theoretically aim your crosshairs and get the block. AKA, yellow stance special. That's a very safe move to use. Perhaps when you do the special moves, in order to get rid of the blocking at the end animations of the moves, you should give those moves a defense penalty. So if I do blue lunge, I'll get the effects I want, but also a defense penalty. DFA, I can spin, and kill, but while I'm doing, I have a defense penalty so high as to ensure that any strike made against me will count.

Anyway's, promod is starting to get 'comfortable', which is what I don't like. I need to be in constant danger. People complain about this lightsaber suddenly getting more dangerous, but have you forgotten that there are rocket launcher and imperial repeater toting players as well? Their weapons are still as lethal as ever, and yet no one notices. The lightsaber should be put on par with them, not a toy, but a weapon that even while you have this magnificent defense system, you should be just as scared of it as you are imperial flechette. In fact, you should be more scared in my opinion. That's where I want this mod to go.

the only thing I disagree with that Fatalstrike says is backpeddling. This just adds to the danger in my opinion. Granted ,ther'es less dodging, but that's good. It forces us to rely on good aim and blocking instead of adopting a complete dodging method. Like you ahve to use a little bit of all the stances, you'll have to use a little bit of the blocking and dodging as well. Also, if this were just lightsabers, well, fine, but when you get guns in the picture, running backwards and firing a weapon that is still the most effect in both close and long range fights, while the guy who is running forward has no prayer of catching you, will destroy promod. It will effectively become a saber mod, or jedimod as I like to say. And while jedimod is certainly fun, it's not competitive.

On a side note, I played the computer in a duel a few nights ago, made him Yoda. Granted, the computer isn't good, but I don't see a problem fighting Yoda. Seriously, if you could make smaller characters like Yoda exist, but incorporate seperate csc penalty system on them, it would be great. Even if yoda were given a constant offensive and defensive penalty, the extra speed that he has (he runs so quick and jumps like crazy too) would balance it out. Allow him to be the quick poker. It would add variety to the game as well. and as you said, if someone really objects to that, or finds their server plagued with 12 mini yodas, then you could put a cvar in to turn that crap off.

In summary:

Promod is for 'pros' or better put, better than average players or players seeking to become better than average. Yes, the mod should be for fun, but let's face it, if this mod goes the route of just being 'fun', then it will simply be added to the continually growing list of 'fun' mods. We already got 13.5 versions of fun mods. This mod is fun in a different way, in that many options exist in order to control victories or defeats.

Promod 1 and 2 took the first step, adding the old 1.02 elements back in will only add to the fervor, and introduce some players to a more lethal, and harder to control fighting style, one that first spurned the downfall of JK2 when people started complaining.
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