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Old 10-03-2004, 05:33 PM   #1
Mistao
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Anyone Feel If SWBF Just Came Out For PC It Would Be Better?

Not to start a flaming war agaisnt consoles, but do you somewhat feel if that Pandemic just concentrated on a PC version, the game might be better? I just feel so much potential was wasted on it; all for the sake of consoles not being able to handle all the little tedious things that PC games can do. I look at the multiplayer menu and i about gagged... And wasn't this game's strong point multiplayer? I've never been a fan of gamespy, so that increases the problems for me. The Chatting is somewhat left to be desired, and no voice chat for PC!!! AHH it disturbes me. I just really pray that pandemic releases a 50-100meg patch that fixes a bunch of problems, and adds a lot of extras to the game... I guess this is wishful thinking... afterall, i came from the Half-Life realm where anything and everything was possible.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:34 PM   #2
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you mean just focused on console? because it was originally a console exclusive, so don't go talkin about what if it was only PC. Chances are, it wouldn't be done without the consoles.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:35 PM   #3
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I guess you got a point, I'm just so hardcore PC, lol my PS2 sits over at my g/f house where her neices nephews play it. I've always loved the flexability a PC game has over a console game.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:38 PM   #4
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:18 PM   #5
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I agree that the cross-platform aspect hurt what could have been a wonderful PC game.

I don't recall reading that Battlefront was originally a console only game. I can remember seeing videos for this and Republic Commando months ago, and wondering which would be the better game. However, I don't remember one being specifically for the console.


Regardless of mis-informaiton, it still stands that the product was rushed and while this didn't hurt the Console aspect much it has definitely affected the PC side of the house.
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:24 PM   #6
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so it was only meant to be console even though it was marketed as Lucasarts' answer to Bf1942 which was only PC. For some reason I believe it was the other way around and over time a decision was made to target the consoles as the majority.

From a company stand point consoles require the least work with the most reward. $60 per game and once released you never really have to support it again, you merely move onto the next title. What games have they published patches for on console? They also don't tend to publish expansion packs but rather another title from the game's franchise. Which makes them more money? 2 titles at $60 a piece or 1 at $60 and an expansion at $30?

See part of the issue is the percentage of console users with networking connections is far fewer than PC users with internet. You're 80 times more likely to find a console owner without an internet connection than a pc user. With that said and the game's original premise (Multiplayer Star wars action) wouldn't it be apparent you'd be better off targeting those who already have internet? Problem for PC users is "Greed" comes into play. Lucasarts farmed out the work to pandemic , nothing better than getting others to do your work for you at a fraction of the price. I'm sure both parties saw the most rewarding path was to "attempt" to do a cross-platform release. Why only take this group's money when you can have everyone's?

PC Gamer magazine has gone off on the issue of PC to console game translations and if they should be "dumbed down". They believe that if its a great title for PC it will probably be a great title for console. They point to Ghost Recon as their example. So if the misconception is a game needs to be simpler and "dumbed down" to be on console what does that mean for its PC sibling? Either they could make it more complex, mature and sophisticated or directly port it over bib and all.

I believe the main mistake is that they rushed it, spread themselves & the title too thin and tried to span all systems.
Have 1 target audience and focus fully on it. If it sells well and there is demand then make it for the other systems. Demos released months prior to the actual game help too. You need that outside input to gage your work in case you're surrounded by yes-men who won't spot faults even if you paid them.

For me had the game been for PC 1st and then consoles I think everyone would have a deeper, more involved game with legs.
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by H0WARD
Chances are, it wouldn't be done without the consoles.
Yep that is true.


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Old 10-03-2004, 06:57 PM   #8
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luckly for me, i own a xbox. So my experience with the game has be good so far. After logging a solid 10 hours, the game seems to repeat itself, and losing some fun factor.
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Old 10-03-2004, 07:06 PM   #9
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Sad MP

I agree.
PC first would have been better. Then XBox and PS2.
After a week of playing swbf mp im just so fustrated and shaking my head thinking a pro company made this game, had the b@lls to compare it to the bf games in its marketing smooze?
The MP browser is so bad, its not even funny any PC MP game has a better menu than this! Shameful! Even after patching its still usless.
Thus making finding good low ping server(s) rare and not very fun playing a round or even just half to have the server die. And rinse and repeat the whole thing a gain...serers won't refresh sigh..Gamespy damn they are the aol of gaming now! lame!
I can tell by playing both games (bf and swbf) the devs prob didn't play bf1942/V too much if at all or even see the mod for bf1942 gc.
The numbers of empty servers is crazy even after clicking on them to even check/refresh is unbeliveable for a new game this popular.
So Im gonna play bfv for now and see if they patch this bad mp experince.
At least with its problems bfv the mp browser works and isn't broken.


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Old 10-03-2004, 07:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lt. Havoc
so it was only meant to be console even though it was marketed as Lucasarts' answer to Bf1942 which was only PC. For some reason I believe it was the other way around and over time a decision was made to target the consoles as the majority.
You are absolutely right
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Old 10-03-2004, 07:16 PM   #11
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Re: Sad MP

Quote:
Originally posted by bodstevens

I can tell by playing both games (bf and swbf) the devs prob didn't play bf1942/V too much if at all
LOL! At least they aren't like DICE. It feels they've learned nothing from their mistakes in the earlier versions of Bf1942 and just put all the same problems back into BFV. And it's the same company!

One being DICE Canada and the other DICE Sweden isn't an excuse...


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Old 10-03-2004, 07:19 PM   #12
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Nice post Lt. Havoc. Very good points.

lukeiamyourmomma - just think whats ahead for battlefield 2.


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Old 10-04-2004, 02:06 PM   #13
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PC Sales Insignificant

Console games sell big and get all the money for development. No one cares about the PC because in terms of numbers people don't play PC games compared to console games. So if you wonder why a game for the PC is so much like the consoles, it's because they are more important and it becomes a task of trying to have the gameplay be as consistent as possible across all platforms. That means gameplay on a console is more important than gameply on a PC because consoles pay the bills and pcs don't.

Want this to change? Only buy PC games.
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Old 10-04-2004, 02:18 PM   #14
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there was a reason BF1942 for Xbox was canceled :-)

SWBF kindof gives a hint why..

in a game like SWBF/BF42 it is just so hard to get the complexity of the to transfer well..

i look at BF1942 and the plethora of keys that are used to play the game.

then you look a SWBF and the very limited amount of control you really have when compared to BF42.

IMHO it is a direct issue with the limitations (or the fact that console players can't handle the complexity) of the console that the PC version has suffered.

which is sad since Pandemic and LA both said that there where different groups working on each version.. so much for that idea...
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Old 10-04-2004, 02:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by hatelull
I agree that the cross-platform aspect hurt what could have been a wonderful PC game.

I don't recall reading that Battlefront was originally a console only game. I can remember seeing videos for this and Republic Commando months ago, and wondering which would be the better game. However, I don't remember one being specifically for the console.


Regardless of mis-informaiton, it still stands that the product was rushed and while this didn't hurt the Console aspect much it has definitely affected the PC side of the house.
I don't have official references or anything, cause I'm not the kind of person that copies this stuff thinking I'll need it... but why else do you think it was ported FROM consoles to PC? Because they decided on console first. And the answer to BF1942 doesn't have to be on the same platform.
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Old 10-04-2004, 02:27 PM   #16
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Yeah your all kinda right in saying the PC game wouldn't be here if there wasn't a console market. But I think Mistao's original question was would the PC game have been better without a console version being developed. Forget the marketting/profit angle, if they HAD of made a pure PC only game, even if it made a huge loss. I think any game that is solely tailored to 1 platform is better than if it tries to work on many platforms. So a PC only SW:BF would have been better than a PC & console version.


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Old 10-04-2004, 02:32 PM   #17
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cross platform games invariably end up making compromises.

It is clear that the PC version of this game has been 'hobbled' by console limitations (the most obvious example is maps sized for 16 players on a console just dont work with 50 players on the PC)

This is why EA cancelled its plans to bring BF1942 to consoles. And it is why they are developing two totally different games for the next Generation of the BF franchises. BF2 for the PC and a similiar but more suited to the console game Battlefield: Modern Combat for consoles.


I do hope that LEC and Pandemic now allow the PC version of this game to have a life of its own. If all patches, updates, enhancements must be cross platform then I feel this game will never truly meet its true potential on the PC.

Last edited by [RNGD]Tyrant; 10-04-2004 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 10-04-2004, 03:00 PM   #18
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i miss those days when those pesky consoles games were limited to mario brothers like arcady game, when more advanced games were only available on pc.

ie pre PS2, XBox, GC days .
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Old 10-04-2004, 03:07 PM   #19
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Well one thing that PC games have over console games...EXPANSION PACKS! Pandamic could always make an expansion pack to include all of things that would have made a PC only version of this game so great. Things such as larger maps, more player classes, different game modes, etc.

Although I would feel somewhat cheated if they did go this route since we would be paying extra for what should have originally came with the PC game from the very start!
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Old 10-04-2004, 04:56 PM   #20
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expansion packs are cash cows.
free downloadable content in the form of bonus packs (Unreal Tournament) are way better.
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Old 10-04-2004, 05:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghent
i miss those days when those pesky consoles games were limited to mario brothers like arcady game, when more advanced games were only available on pc.

ie pre PS2, XBox, GC days .
I really do hate PCGame bitches that think they deserve everything, and at the highest quality. That'd be you buddy.
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Old 10-04-2004, 05:47 PM   #22
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I think what really should have happened was to start by focusing one one console. After seeing the errors, you could move to another console, and/or start to make a PC game that could include the items and things that consoles couldn't support. Then begin constantly improving 'till you get a great game.

Now I don't know about you guys, but I'm all right with waiting for a game so I can get the full, unbuggy, unlame experience. I don't have SWBF yet, but I do not belive that I will get it based on what I have seen.


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Old 10-04-2004, 05:50 PM   #23
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I really do hate PCGame bitches that think they deserve everything, and at the highest quality. That'd be you buddy.
Well it's a general premise that PC games are more detailed than console games, and higher quality "usually" comes with the territory...
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Old 10-04-2004, 06:36 PM   #24
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^^^ Agrees. If a PC can support more, you should use that to your advantage and exploit its resources correct?


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Old 10-04-2004, 06:47 PM   #25
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This seems to be turning into a console vs Pc thread.


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Old 10-04-2004, 06:55 PM   #26
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Yep. Now that it has basically served it's purpose as will it be better, maybe it's time for a lock


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Old 10-04-2004, 07:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by [RNGD]Tyrant
I do hope that LEC and Pandemic now allow the PC version of this game to have a life of its own. If all patches, updates, enhancements must be cross platform then I feel this game will never truly meet its true potential on the PC.
True. True. Nicely put Tyrant.


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Old 10-04-2004, 07:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by sup3rsnail
expansion packs are cash cows.
free downloadable content in the form of bonus packs (Unreal Tournament) are way better.
Absolutly no argument from me!
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Old 10-04-2004, 07:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
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I will kill you 'till you die from it!
Hot Shots Part Deux is one of the funniest movies in existance, and that's one of the most retarded, funny things said in the whole movie. I also was referring to Ghent's attitude that consoles should not get anything. He didn't outright say that EXACT thing, but I am always arguing with these types who think consoles shouldn't get anything. Consoles have influenced PC in good and bad ways even though Ghent, here, doesn't know or choses not to know. He's obviously just being an idiot, and it's uneeded. If this game was ported FROM the consoles and originally meant FOR the consoles, then I don't see how he can talk like that... cause without consoles, Battlefront would be another game that never mosied its way on over to PC. Ghent is one of the PCGamers that hasn't found the other edge of the knife yet, and he refuses to ackknowledge it.
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Old 10-05-2004, 09:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by H0WARD
Hot Shots Part Deux is one of the funniest movies in existance, and that's one of the most retarded, funny things said in the whole movie. I also was referring to Ghent's attitude that consoles should not get anything. He didn't outright say that EXACT thing, but I am always arguing with these types who think consoles shouldn't get anything. Consoles have influenced PC in good and bad ways even though Ghent, here, doesn't know or choses not to know. He's obviously just being an idiot, and it's uneeded. If this game was ported FROM the consoles and originally meant FOR the consoles, then I don't see how he can talk like that... cause without consoles, Battlefront would be another game that never mosied its way on over to PC. Ghent is one of the PCGamers that hasn't found the other edge of the knife yet, and he refuses to ackknowledge it.
you my friend, need to wake up and take a closer look at the whole gaming industry. i don't like to flame, just stating the facts:

1. the point of my original reply was never meant to say console gamers shouldn't get anything. My point was that during that time period, ( pre PS2, xbox period ) PC games kept it's unique and good quality seperated from console games. During that time, you don't see game titles got simultaneous release for all platforms, PC games were only for PC, console titles were only for console. You can't argue with that, because we PC games didn't get to play your console games at that time either. So even during that time, we PC gamers, were not the ones to get everything.

2. " Consoles have influenced PC in good and bad ways even though Ghent, here, doesn't know or choses not to know. " i am well aware of the influence, both good and bad. but you have to admit that the bad is a lot more than the good. Mainly in terms of technology level, which unavoidably affects the quality of gameplay. Consoles gaming industry drags PC industry down.

lets face it, consoles no matter how better they get, say it doesn't matter when xbox 2 comes out, even when xbox 10 comes out in the future, comtemporary PC hardware will always be superior. The sad truth is, nowadays, all these PC hardware superiority is going to waste because many devs are turning into console market, because that's where the money is. The result is, for all the cross platform releases, PC version got shafted the most ( dumbed down ), in terms of both at tech level and at gameplay level. This is what irks me and a lot of PC gamers. it's just like a devolution, instead of going forward, we are going backward, going for inferior technology and worse gameplay.

Theif 3, SWBF, and the upcoming Man of Valor... there are so many titles out there that has this disgusting tendancy, that makes me want to puke.

3. i don't mind cross platform releases, but it should be done in a PROPER way, not the way like these days.

it should be done like Doom 3 and half life 2, they will both have console versions, but those versions are designed around the console, to suit the tech limitation. NOT to dumb down the PC version and make all platform version exactly the same. PCs deserve a lot more than dumb down. ( not an opinion, but a fact. )

4. And don't even get me started on the SWBF.

IT IS A STRAIGHT PORT, period. the dev just didn't say it out loud. "we are gonna use a sperate team to dev the PC version to make it unique. " what a disgusting lie !!

for all of you ppl who thinks this is not a port, you need to wake up.

the whole game is designed around the console, in terms of both gameplay and tech limitation. Mediocre graphics; tiny maps; in game comms; low tickets number; abysmal controls ( i don't even want to touch all the aircraft, i will play my space dogfights in GC mod for bf1942, thank you very much ). What more do you want to prove that it's a straight port!!!??? Or maybe you ppl only define the word "port" in terms of release date, ie, first console, than PC, not in terms of what counts here, ie, tech level and gameplay.

the reason i bought this game is because i'm a die hard SW fan and hoping that patches and mods in teh future will improve this game.

So recap, all i am saying here is not about PC gamers should get everything. ( Ironically it's you console gamers that got everything, not us. You guys have typical console games to play , which won't appear on PCs, and now you have a fair share of PC games that would only be available to PC exclusively if it was a few years ago. )

MY POINT IS THAT PC GAMES SHOULD BE SEPERATED FROM CONSOLE GAMES, TO PRESERVE IT'S OWN UNIQUE QUALITY. WE, PC GAMERS, ARE DEFENDING WHAT'S RIGHTFULLY OURS, WHICH IS SLOWLY BEING ROBBED AWAY FROM US because of the cashcow console market.

if a company wants to do crossplatforms, fine, but do it seperately instead of making exact same copies across all platforms and take good advantage of PCs hardware superiority.

oh, btw, next time H0WARD, instead of using words like bitches, idiots in your post, grow a brain, and back up your posts with facts or intelligent arguements.

Peace.

Last edited by Ghent; 10-05-2004 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 10-05-2004, 10:04 AM   #31
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YES!!!!! very well put!

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Old 10-05-2004, 10:39 AM   #32
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If you got less things to worry about (PS2 and XBOX netcode etc) you do everything better.


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Old 10-05-2004, 11:13 AM   #33
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Mr Ghent is totally right.

From all the interviews and comments before this game was released the developers said all the things that PC gamers wanted to hear:
- seperate development team
- mod support and tools
- punkbuster
- large 32-64 player maps
...plus the fact that the game is essentially based on a PC game (Battlefield)

Therefore all us PC gamers bought the game assuming that they were building a PC game (essentially as rich as BF with SW content) and then simplifiying it for the consoles....what we got was a console game with a straight port to the PC.

This is why the complaints and problems for the PC are running 20 to 1 vs the Xbox at Lucas Arts Support.


There are two possibilities:
1. It was their intention to make the PC game properly but they ran out of time
2. It was never their intention to make the PC properly but they lied in interviews so people would preorder/buy it in the first week

lots of people here are giving LEC/Pandemic the benefit of the doubt and assuming #1...but as of now that is just 'hope', irregardless their comments before release were entirely misleading.


This thread, like many others on this forum, makes it perfectly clear that PC gamers are having a totally different experience with this game than consolers. It might even be worth seperating the main Forums here to PC and Console since many comments, discussions are totally different.

Last edited by [RNGD]Tyrant; 10-05-2004 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 10-05-2004, 11:27 AM   #34
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Chances are, it would be done much better without the consoles

and i agree with many "free to speak" reviews like those:

"those unfortunate enough to have purchased the PC version will quickly see that the game was really only made with the console player in mind, with little effort having been made to make a proper conversion to PC, although one can only experience 32-player online games with the PC version."

"I appreciate the need to cater for the console crowd with this game, which may explain the ickle levels, but why why WHY do the PC users have to put up with the same thing? If I want to play a console game, let me decide that for myself and go and buy a console. When I buy a PC game I expect, nay DEMAND, that what I'm getting is going to use the strengths of the PC platform, instead of just being a copy and paste of the console version. "


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Old 10-05-2004, 12:33 PM   #35
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If the upcoming patch(es) don't save the PC version of the game, then we are going to have to depend on the fans to do it right by creating mods. That's of course if some of these neglected features can even be remedied by even the best of the best modders!
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:17 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marduke|Myth
Nice post Lt. Havoc. Very good points.

lukeiamyourmomma - just think whats ahead for battlefield 2.
Yeah, let's think about it for a minute. Road to Rome sucked. Secret Weapons sucked. BFV sucked. Hmmm...so far Dice only can really brag about the original BF1942, and it took them over 6 patches to really make it a polished game.

Yeah, I don't hold out a lot of hope that BF2 will be any good.

As far as Battlefront is concerned, I for one have it on the x-box and I personally love it. Since I got Battlefront I have played it as much as I play BF1942 (and that's saying a lot since BF1942 is about the only game I have played on a regular basis for over a year now).


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Old 10-06-2004, 10:24 AM   #37
Prime
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Grohl
People will make their own menus when modding tools are released.
Did they say there were going to be modding tools released?

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Old 10-06-2004, 01:58 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vezner
Yeah, let's think about it for a minute. Road to Rome sucked. Secret Weapons sucked. BFV sucked. Hmmm...so far Dice only can really brag about the original BF1942, and it took them over 6 patches to really make it a polished game.
BFV: made by DICE Canada

BF1942: made by DICE Sweden


And BF1942 is far from being a polished game. Too many game exploits and unbalances that have never been addressed and never will.


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Old 10-07-2004, 09:39 AM   #39
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Getting back to the original question, yes SWBF would undoubtedly have been a better game had it been developed solely for the PC. Saying this game wouldn't have existed without the consoles is pretty clueless; look at how successful other similar PC games such as Battlefield 1942 have been (despite its many problems), it was only a matter of time until someone took the framework and dumped a major franchise such as Star Wars on it. Nobody can deny the fact that if you develop a game to work on ALL platforms and directly port it to each, the most powerful platform will be getting 'held back' by the less powerful platforms. Clearly, the most powerful platform is the PC, and the 'holding back' is pretty evident in the host of features that the PC can easily support (and are expected by PC players these days) that didn't make it into the game.

Fortunately I hear word that modding tools WILL be available in the future (check the editing forum), so that the PC version can expand beyond the restrictions of the inferior hardware it was developed for.

P.S. Anyone not sure about buying the PC version because of what they've read, definitely go for it. Sure, it could have been better and probably will be once modding tools are released, but it's still an excellent and VERY fun game!
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:50 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by subs0nic
Fortunately I hear word that modding tools WILL be available in the future (check the editing forum), so that the PC version can expand beyond the restrictions of the inferior hardware it was developed for.
But this can be a double edged sword. Modding tools are nice, but they can lead to many comflicting mods and version hell. They can destroy a community as much as help it.

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