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Old 11-15-2006, 01:45 PM   #1
YertyL
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Units I have yet to find a use for

I just find that some units in the game aren't really useful, however feel free to correct me - maybe I just haven't been creative enough...

-Dark Trooper phase 1: seems just like a downgraded TIE-mauler to me: far more costly, slightly slower, can't overrun infantry, less damage, no ranged attack and even weaker against plexies
My suggestion would be to make the DT1 more like a super-stormtrooper, that is strong against normal infantry and plexies and weak against T2B, T4B etc.

-transports generally, especially the juggernaught: While the rebel and ZC transport both allow infantry sneak attacks, which despite being pretty situational and hard to organize (at least compared to normal attack-move tactics) have their use. The imperial juggernaught however is neither fast nor sneaky, it's not even a good cover for your infantry because it doesn't even take much of a beating (and your infantry becomes useless while inside and is normally cheap anyway) and the juggernaught's combat abilities are less than that of a TIE mauler which costs a quarter of its prize.

-Dark Trooper phase 3(partially): While I think that the DT3 is an extremly cool and often useful unit, I have found that in most cases an AT-AT (which costs about the same and is available 2 tech grades before the DT3) outperforms him. Yes, the DT3 is far more manouverable and can shoot air units, but the AT-AT's ability to take far more of a beating and spam stormies most often is worth more than being able to jetpack.
Also, the DT3 gets owned by pulse tanks, which it should counter (according to its description)

-interdictors (Who'd have thought that? ) There is no doubt that the ability to prevent an enemy fleet from fleeing can be useful, however that first requires you to win the battle, at which the interdictor fails. Its combat abilities are close to zero, and most often it isn't worth the pop cap and money to have a ship that can only do what you can achieve anway by destroying the enemy ship's engines.
ATM the interdictor is relatively good against fighters (for a cap ship).I'd find it interesting if the interdictor was improved in that area and could perform as a capital anti-fighter ship, giving the empire a truly unique unit.

-TIE scout and TIE phantom: Both of these have only slight advantages over the standard TIE fighter, of which you get dozens and dozens per battle for free, and thus are really not worth the money and pop cap.
My suggestion would be to make the TIE scout (and possibly TIE phantom as well) take no pop cap in tactical battles; Like R2-D2 and C3PO a ship that cannot really fight should not force you to limit other ships that can.
For my idea for the TIE phantom let me quote Wookiepedia:
Quote:
The greatest advantage of that craft was that they had a built in mechanism that allowed the pilot to fire its lasers at any time, and have the device automatically shut off and turn back on after every volley. This in effect allowed the TIE Phantom to be virtually invisible 99 percent of the time.
I'd find it cool if this was implemented in the game, making the TIE phantom able to shoot and cloak automatically right after that, making him a unique craft good for sneak attacks on enemy bombers (the time of cloaking should still be limited though)

-ZC nightsisters. While they have the potential to be very cool and unique units (infantry tanks that can heal themselves), they are just too slow to do any damage - especially when you're up against a human player who micromanages intelligently; The canderous tank wins in almost every aspect against the nightsister, being far faster, having a ranged attack that can penetrate shields (which the nightsisters' rancors ironically don't), regenerating as well (shielded) and costing the same or less (with control of Mandalore)
Nightsisters just need to be a bit faster and more manouverable.

Perhaps I'll add more units later, however ATM I'd like to hear your thoughts...

Last edited by YertyL; 11-15-2006 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 11-15-2006, 06:18 PM   #2
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Darktrooper Phase 1 I like as is but I can see your point. Its the cheapest version and while terribly vulnerable to plex they are awesome against infantry, heroes and vehicles in melee. They do have to make it to melee and this can be a little tricky.
Phase 3s I find disappointing. I only use Phase 2s. They are awesome.

I dont bother using Juggers. If they were the proper version with 3 hvy blasters (1 more than an ATAT) and heavier armour then I would buy them. I will be modding them to the proper version when I mod this game after the patch comes out.

Interdictors = Ive whinged about this in the FOC patch thread.

TIE Scout and Phantom = agree 100%. I rarely use them. I said in my first post about FoC the Phantom is nothing more than a gimmick.

Nightsisters= they are good if you have some cannon fodder to absorb fire on the way in...once they get in close they are nasty.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:30 PM   #3
wedge2211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YertyL
I'd find it cool if this was implemented in the game, making the TIE phantom able to shoot and cloak automatically right after that, making him a unique craft good for sneak attacks on enemy bombers (the time of cloaking should still be limited though)
Remember the Kushan cloaked fighters in the original Homeworld? They would do exactly that. If you had given them the order to cloak and then attack something, they would uncloak only long enough to fire a couple volleys at the target before the pilot would automatically re-engage his cloaking device. And as I recall, the cloak never timed out--it might've increased fuel consumption a bit, but it never just turned off. You could park a load of cloaked fighters somewhere in the map to make for a nice ambush, or sneak one in close to the enemy mothership to observe.

For all that, they were a pretty well-balanced unit, too. They didn't pack an enormous punch, so it wasn't really economical to make an Invisible Doomsday Fleet. They also weren't very maneuverable, and they fired pretty long-duration volleys from their cannons, so if there was a fast-reacting unit like a corvette around when they decloaked to fire, they could get shredded. They were great against less maneuverable enemies, though, and if you were careful about how you managed their cloak you could do some damage to the more versatile units, too. Maybe the TIE phantoms could fill that role, but it would be best if they re-cloaked automatically. I remember them doing that in Rebel Assault II.


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Old 11-16-2006, 10:39 AM   #4
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wookiepedia.............dont believe everything they say, not saying it is rong, but dont always take what they say at face value
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Old 11-17-2006, 04:20 PM   #5
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I think the ties are in the game to fill the path-finder role mostly. Well, defenders are working great, and if you scout with phantom you can retreat with no loss.

Interdictor sucks as we all know it. They have one big use though. When you have already won the game, and that annoying annoying enemy are popping around your planets prolonging his death, its time to build that Interdictor or two to finish them once and for all. But yeah I wish it has a more effective disruption against incoming missiles and a more reasonable gun, then it will be more useable than something other than a clean up unit of a game already won.
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Old 11-18-2006, 01:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Interdictor sucks as we all know it. They have one big use though. When you have already won the game, and that annoying annoying enemy are popping around your planets prolonging his death, its time to build that Interdictor or two to finish them once and for all. But yeah I wish it has a more effective disruption against incoming missiles and a more reasonable gun, then it will be more useable than something other than a clean up unit of a game already won.
Look, I'm getting sick of stating this, so this'll be the last time.

Interdictors are used to stop enemies from escaping into Hyperspace. That is it. They weren't designed to engage cruisers, nor were they designed to deploy artillery, carry ground forces/fighters, protect other cruisers from fighters, blow anything up or to be used as escorts. Hell, according to the canon, it wasn't even classified as a heavy cruiser. It didn't even have turbolasers!

I'm not really sure what everyone is wanting. I'll accept it needs a few extra hitpoints but a lot of the changes I've heard - carrying loads of fighters, carrying torpedo launchers, more guns, more PWNING ability and whatever, it's just cheese. That's not what it's there for.

Bottom line - Interdictor was designed from the ground up to effectively block off hyperspace. It does that. So stop asking for more pointless upgrades - at least the Empire got a bucketload of useful new units.
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Old 11-18-2006, 04:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TearsOfIsha
I'm not really sure what everyone is wanting. I'll accept it needs a few extra hitpoints but a lot of the changes I've heard - carrying loads of fighters, carrying torpedo launchers, more guns, more PWNING ability and whatever, it's just cheese. That's not what it's there for.
Actually, if you had played the Star Wars flight sims, you'd know that the Interdictor cruisers there had the ability to carry a small amount of starfighters.
It was even capable to take a few punches, facing other medium-sized capital ships, though it wasn't the best of ideas.

The problem with the Interdictor is that it isn't so much a question of strength, but a question of usefulness. There's easier methods of stopping an enemy fleet other then building an Interdictor. The problem also isn't that the Empire got new useful units, but rather that it still has useless units.


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Old 11-19-2006, 04:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Actually, if you had played the Star Wars flight sims, you'd know that the Interdictor cruisers there had the ability to carry a small amount of starfighters.
It was even capable to take a few punches, facing other medium-sized capital ships, though it wasn't the best of ideas.
Yes, I've played Star Wars flight sims, I know this. I've also played Republic Commando, where blaster pistols don't need any ammo, and I've played KOTOR too, where *nothing* requires ammo and Jedi literally can't use a lot of their abilities if they wear armour. Games tend to have a lot of license with the canon.

My point here is that EaW is a strategy game, and using an Interdictor should depend on your strategy, not on how many guns it has. Otherwise it opens the argument for why Rebel cruisers can't carry fighters etc etc.
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TearsOfIsha
My point here is that EaW is a strategy game, and using an Interdictor should depend on your strategy, not on how many guns it has. Otherwise it opens the argument for why Rebel cruisers can't carry fighters etc etc.
I understand what you mean. However, the unit is too contextual. It has little use beyond being having his gravity-well generators and is mostly a waste. That is a problem.
I don't see how it would open the debate on Rebel Cruisers being unable to carry fighters. Rebel capital ships remain useful without spawning fighters.


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Old 11-18-2006, 02:17 PM   #10
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I agree except with the dark troopers P3 they are awsome you need to use thier missle ability more often they can takke those mobile missle hoover tanks out in 1 volley and a cand in 2, just make sure to have some support for them.


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Old 11-18-2006, 03:16 PM   #11
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Well, improving the Interdictors' missile-scrambling ability might be a good move to make them more useful in Skirmish/tactical combat. But for the most part, I agree with TearsofIsha: The Interdictor is supposed to be a strategic tool.

(Interesting question: can a Zann Consortium fleet bribe its way past an Interdictor, or does the gravity well trap them? I haven't tried it yet, but I'm hoping for the latter...)


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Old 11-18-2006, 07:44 PM   #12
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may i sugest adding swamp speeders and at-aps(pod walkers) to the Zann Consortium
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:15 PM   #13
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Darktrooper Phase3 is working quite well with the missiles, and definitely not useless. Phase1, on the other hand, is there mostly for completion sake I guess. I wish they five it more speed so they can charge into combat better, either that or a bit more HP, or lower the price.

Nightsisters, they are just sweet! I wish they can attack thru shields though, as they should. Well, remember one thing, make sure you get one close to some meat troops to leach off some health and you are fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TearsOfIsha
Look, I'm getting sick of stating this, so this'll be the last time.

Interdictors are used to stop enemies from escaping into Hyperspace. That is it. They weren't designed to engage cruisers, nor were they designed to deploy artillery, carry ground forces/fighters, protect other cruisers from fighters, blow anything up or to be used as escorts. Hell, according to the canon, it wasn't even classified as a heavy cruiser. It didn't even have turbolasers!
Well, I am not asking for some uber guns on Interdictors. But rather, I would hope for better ability to defend against incoming attacks, mainly from bombers. Its not that much of a strategic tool if a few easy volley of missiles can disable it.

Thats why I am suggesting either boosting the time of its missile scrambling ability, or giving it a better set of anti-fighter/bomber guns. And yes, giving it a bit more HP(not too much) would be fine also. I reasonable combination of above would make it a unit more capable of defending itself, until help arrived.

Making it a huge carrier won't make sense. And giving it powerful guns only shorten its lifespan making it a even juicier target.

If you think boosting HP is the way, maybe they should just actually give the grav generator more hardpoints, balancing out the HP amongst them, boosting the total HP. That way you don't get disabled that easily.
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:43 PM   #14
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I primarily use the Imperials and I have no problems with any of the units. Haven't you considered the possibility that you simply just don't know how to use the units affectively?

Quote:
-Dark Trooper phase 3(partially): While I think that the DT3 is an extremly cool and often useful unit, I have found that in most cases an AT-AT (which costs about the same and is available 2 tech grades before the DT3) outperforms him. Yes, the DT3 is far more manouverable and can shoot air units, but the AT-AT's ability to take far more of a beating and spam stormies most often is worth more than being able to jetpack.
Also, the DT3 gets owned by pulse tanks, which it should counter (according to its description)
The Dark Troopers phase 3 is one of the best units in the game. Infantry are easy targets for its long-range laser cannons and it can take quite a beating from plex soldiers. Pulse tanks are easily defeated by DT's phase 3, just switch to rockets and let the slaughter begin. The jet-pack is useful for a quick retreat to a repair station.

Quote:
-interdictors (Who'd have thought that? ) There is no doubt that the ability to prevent an enemy fleet from fleeing can be useful, however that first requires you to win the battle, at which the interdictor fails. Its combat abilities are close to zero, and most often it isn't worth the pop cap and money to have a ship that can only do what you can achieve anway by destroying the enemy ship's engines.
ATM the interdictor is relatively good against fighters (for a cap ship).I'd find it interesting if the interdictor was improved in that area and could perform as a capital anti-fighter ship, giving the empire a truly unique unit.
Actually, I always bring in an interdictor with my fleet just for the missile-jamming systems. Y-wings, B-wings, MC-30's and Skiprays are rendered useless against an interdictor. They are excellent for guarding star destroyers and space stations against bombers. Just keep them protected with fighters and frigates. Best of all, the jamming system is not a HP and cannot be disabled until the interdictor is completely destroyed.

Quote:
-TIE scout and TIE phantom: Both of these have only slight advantages over the standard TIE fighter, of which you get dozens and dozens per battle for free, and thus are really not worth the money and pop cap.
My suggestion would be to make the TIE scout (and possibly TIE phantom as well) take no pop cap in tactical battles; Like R2-D2 and C3PO a ship that cannot really fight should not force you to limit other ships that can.
For my idea for the TIE phantom let me quote Wookiepedia:
I'd find it cool if this was implemented in the game, making the TIE phantom able to shoot and cloak automatically right after that, making him a unique craft good for sneak attacks on enemy bombers (the time of cloaking should still be limited though)
I have found a number of uses for both the TIE phantom and the TIE scout.
-TIE scouts are useful for a number of reasons. Scouts can use their sensor ping to foil sneak attacks and identify enemy craft movement. They can be used to find enemies hiding in asteroid fields and can find enemy structures as well (turrets for example). Scouts are basically mobile sensor nodes.
-TIE phantoms are useful as well. The cloaking ability can be used to sneak behind enemy lines and hyperspace in an entire fleet thereby catching the enemy by surprise. Try hyperspacing in the Executor next to the enemy space station, I use this strategy many times and my victory is contributed directly to the humble TIE phantom. Phamtoms are blindingly fast, making them excellent dogfighters.


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Last edited by Valter; 11-18-2006 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 11-19-2006, 04:18 AM   #15
YertyL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TearsOfIsha
Look, I'm getting sick of stating this, so this'll be the last time.

Interdictors are used to stop enemies from escaping into Hyperspace. That is it. They weren't designed to engage cruisers, nor were they designed to deploy artillery, carry ground forces/fighters, protect other cruisers from fighters, blow anything up or to be used as escorts. Hell, according to the canon, it wasn't even classified as a heavy cruiser. It didn't even have turbolasers!
This is a gameplay>realism issue I think. There should be situations when the Interdictor is a better option than the Victory (who is about the same price and pop cap), however ATM there practically aren't because (as lukeiamyourdad pointed out) there are easier ways of stopping an enemy from hyperspacing out; it's often even good if he flees because he's taking 4 times the damage and can't shoot back for the duration of 10 second and all ships with their engines down automatically die when the rest of the fleet hypers out.
IMO the main problem with the interdictor is that it is required for the imp player to have a Force far superior to that of the enemy (so superior that he can afford investing 3000 credits into something that won't help in the actual battle) for it to become useful, at which point the imp player propably has won anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Nightsisters, they are just sweet! I wish they can attack thru shields though, as they should. Well, remember one thing, make sure you get one close to some meat troops to leach off some health and you are fine.
That's the problem. Have you ever tried going with foots only against archers in WC3? Footies easily defeat archers in close combat, however they most often never get close enough to profit from that.
Almost everything is faster than the nightsister, so if you just micromanage properly and keep your units out of melee range, you'll eventually defeat her even with a Stormie (OK, exaggerating here a little, but almost everything with a ranged attack should suffice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
I primarily use the Imperials and I have no problems with any of the units. Haven't you considered the possibility that you simply just don't know how to use the units affectively?
Actually, yes, in the first sentence of my post...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
The Dark Troopers phase 3 is one of the best units in the game. Infantry are easy targets for its long-range laser cannons and it can take quite a beating from plex soldiers. Pulse tanks are easily defeated by DT's phase 3, just switch to rockets and let the slaughter begin. The jet-pack is useful for a quick retreat to a repair station.
Yes, the DT3 ist relatively good vs. infantry, but so is the AT-AT with its spammable stormies.
And have you ever really tried using DT3s against pulse tanks?? A DT phase 3 is killed by 2-3 shots of one pulse tank (unless that's another bug), meaning that if you attack 1 unit of pulse tanks (4 tanks) with one unit of DT3s (1 trooper), it'll die in the first shot (the DT that is...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
Actually, I always bring in an interdictor with my fleet just for the missile-jamming systems. Y-wings, B-wings, MC-30's and Skiprays are rendered useless against an interdictor. They are excellent for guarding star destroyers and space stations against bombers. Just keep them protected with fighters and frigates. Best of all, the jamming system is not a HP and cannot be disabled until the interdictor is completely destroyed.
I agree that you can shield one of your cap ships completely from bombers (with one interdicor that is), however so can 1-2 Tartans or a few fighters which intercept them before they can shoot, and your other cap ships are still vulnerable. I am not saying the interdictor is useless, it even saved my neck once when attacking a bribed planet and getting no fighters to defend against bombers, however all in all the victory (a comparable unit) still wins by far.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
I have found a number of uses for both the TIE phantom and the TIE scout.
-TIE scouts are useful for a number of reasons. Scouts can use their sensor ping to foil sneak attacks and identify enemy craft movement. They can be used to find enemies hiding in asteroid fields and can find enemy structures as well (turrets for example). Scouts are basically mobile sensor nodes.
-TIE phantoms are useful as well. The cloaking ability can be used to sneak behind enemy lines and hyperspace in an entire fleet thereby catching the enemy by surprise. Try hyperspacing in the Executor next to the enemy space station, I use this strategy many times and my victory is contributed directly to the humble TIE phantom. Phamtoms are blindingly fast, making them excellent dogfighters.
Again I am not saying they are useless. However both things you mentioned could have been achived by 2-3 squadrons of regular TIEs, which you get for free (it's not that hard to sneak something close to an enemy starbase even if it isn't cloaked, and 12-18 interceptors should be able to dish out as much damage as 3 phantoms). While TIE scouts and phantoms have their uses, they aren't good enough compared to the regular TIEs to be worth the money and pop cap.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:36 PM   #16
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Yes, the DT3 ist relatively good vs. infantry, but so is the AT-AT with its spammable stormies.
And have you ever really tried using DT3s against pulse tanks?? A DT phase 3 is killed by 2-3 shots of one pulse tank (unless that's another bug), meaning that if you attack 1 unit of pulse tanks (4 tanks) with one unit of DT3s (1 trooper), it'll die in the first shot (the DT that is...)
One on one, a DT phase 3 will always defeat a pulse tank. However, there are no units in the game that can stand up to 4 pulse tanks (not even an AT-AT).
Here are some suggestions for using the DT phase 3 effectively...
- Use Phase 3's to defend AT-AT's from flanking and infantry attacks.
- Build an EM field generator on an MDU and defend it with a DT phase 3, in return the DT is defended from all long range rocket attacks, nullifying it's weakness.
- Phase 3's are excellent for destroying Canderous tanks because their rockets bypass all shield defenses.


Quote:
I agree that you can shield one of your cap ships completely from bombers (with one interdicor that is), however so can 1-2 Tartans or a few fighters which intercept them before they can shoot, and your other cap ships are still vulnerable. I am not saying the interdictor is useless, it even saved my neck once when attacking a bribed planet and getting no fighters to defend against bombers, however all in all the victory (a comparable unit) still wins by far.
Acutually, one interdictor can defend an entire fleet from proton torpedoes and missles if you group your forces together properly. Tartans can only destroy fighters, unlike the interdictor tartans can't do anything to an MC-30 and they can't neutralize incoming missiles.
How can you compare an interdictor to a Victory cruiser? One is a battleship and the other is a support vessel, they are two different kinds of ships and they have two different purposes.


Quote:
Again I am not saying they are useless. However both things you mentioned could have been achived by 2-3 squadrons of regular TIEs, which you get for free (it's not that hard to sneak something close to an enemy starbase even if it isn't cloaked, and 12-18 interceptors should be able to dish out as much damage as 3 phantoms). While TIE scouts and phantoms have their uses, they aren't good enough compared to the regular TIEs to be worth the money and pop cap.
How can 2-3 squadrons of TIE interceptors sneak undetected to an enemy base and hyperspace in the Executor? Normal TIE's don't have the sensor ping or the stealth abilities so how can they do everything the Scout and Phantom can do?
I agree with you about firepower though, a couple squadrons of interceptors can outperform a squadron of Phantoms or Scouts in battle but dogfighting is not the primary purpose of either craft. Recon and surgical strike are the primary abilities of the Scout and Phantom.


"You will pay the price for your lack of vision!" - Palpatine
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Old 11-20-2006, 11:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
One on one, a DT phase 3 will always defeat a pulse tank. However, there are no units in the game that can stand up to 4 pulse tanks (not even an AT-AT).
If you pit 2 Darktroopers (1800 Credits, 2 pop cap) against 4 pulse tanks (1800 Credits, 1 pop cap) they will be defeated - and the ZC even generally gets more money! That just isn't what you'd call a counter...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
Here are some suggestions for using the DT phase 3 effectively...
- Use Phase 3's to defend AT-AT's from flanking and infantry attacks.
- Build an EM field generator on an MDU and defend it with a DT phase 3, in return the DT is defended from all long range rocket attacks, nullifying it's weakness.
- Phase 3's are excellent for destroying Canderous tanks because their rockets bypass all shield defenses.
-the first job will be better done by a much cheaper squad of TIE maulers or AT-STs (or 2 or 3 - that would still be cheaper) - most often you'll not want to escort an anti-tank unit with another anti-tank unit
-I can't really argue about the other 2 tactics since I haven't tried them out, however the first one seems a bit unpractical since it requires you not to move your position. The second one could be a valid point though, perhaps the role of the DT3 is to be a Anti-Canderous weapon


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
Acutually, one interdictor can defend an entire fleet from proton torpedoes and missles if you group your forces together properly. Tartans can only destroy fighters, unlike the interdictor tartans can't do anything to an MC-30 and they can't neutralize incoming missiles.
How can you compare an interdictor to a Victory cruiser? One is a battleship and the other is a support vessel, they are two different kinds of ships and they have two different purposes.
I dunno, but it seems to me that an interdictor covers a field pretty much the size of one Star Destroyer - and no human player will attack the ship the interdictor covers with bombers.
And I compare the victory and interdictor because they're about the same money and pop cap - so if the victory wins in almost every scenario, a player will prefer to spend his money on that ship, making the int. obsolete


Quote:
Originally Posted by valter
How can 2-3 squadrons of TIE interceptors sneak undetected to an enemy base and hyperspace in the Executor? Normal TIE's don't have the sensor ping or the stealth abilities so how can they do everything the Scout and Phantom can do?
I have rarely seen anyone patroulling the whole area in the LOS of his space station with anti-fighter ships. Even if he does, I doubt that none of your craft will last long enough to get into the LOS of the space station, even when under attack - you just have to try a little different tactic than heading straight for the enemy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by valter
Recon and surgical strike are the primary abilities of the Scout and Phantom.
Well, they are in the manual. See above for recon;and concerning the surgical strikes, in reality most often the following thing will happen:
-TIE phantom attacks an enemy bomber or fighter squad (and decloaks)
-TIE phantom is eliminated by the sorrounding ships before being able to cloak again
-with luck the enemy loses perhaps 1-2 bombers (aprox. 140-200 (or 0) credits), you lose a squad of TIE phantoms (don't know the exact vaulue, but something like 375 credits I think)

I don't think any human player will leave his bomber squads undefended somewhere in space to wait for them to be shot down.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:09 PM   #18
Rust_Lord
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Where does one start? I agree with certain points raised by pretty much every poster. I think EaW suffers from the counter-unit syndrome where a unit is changed so that it performs a function but is not so well rounded that a player could use it exclusively. An interdictor which is much tougher, has turbo lasers and can spawn fighters would be so versatile would you use anything else? I have since tested the Interdictor and its missile scrambling field has been greatly improved from what I remember to work like in the standard game. However, like the Acclamator, its armor is nothing more than a couple of sheets of tin-foil/al-foil stapled to the hull and its shields powered by 4 AA batteries. The Empire faction works well enough but all their warships seem on the fragile side to me. I like the simulator version but I dont want the interdictor to have fighters because it wont spawn many and thats pretty useless but they really need to be tougher and given a few more laser cannons. At present they are outgunned by corvettes. From all the info I have read it is a heavy cruiser (size, power output, crew, armour, shielding) and it is should reflect that, even if it is a little undergunned. Preventing a force from escaping can turn into a pyrrhic victory sometimes too; I have had experiences where I have been attacked by HUGE forces (over 100 cap) with a force of only 20 or so with an interdictor or DS2 and once you destroy the cap ships, frigs etc of the enemy fleet they want to escape. If you force them to stay and fight then you must destroy them entirely and have the endurance to do it. By doing this you can take unnecessary or heavy losses.

As for Phantoms and Scouts, YertyL thinks as I do; as long as your prepared to sacrifice one squadron you can scout a map, get in close to an enemy station etc, without using up a pop cap that you could use a much more useful TIE/Def for eg...recon in force!

The Darktrooper Phase 3 I find just lacks mobility. It may sound strange saying that when it has jump jets and can cross the entire map, but that is hazardous. I guess it depends on your style of play but I like everything I send into battle to come home. For starters its alot more economical. They are expensive and seem to lack the HPs of ATATs and to best use them they need to be supported. ATATs come with their own, albeit limited, but never ending support. In the defence of the DT3 I did use them to conquer the last remaining planet I had left in a GC owned by the ZC. It was Nal Hutta which has a very limited intial pop cap (3) and a narrow path of advance...basically a meat grinder. They had maximum buildings built and a considerable garrison. I tried assault after assault but with the garrison they had and facing every ZC hero on the one planet it was impossible. So I built 12 DT Phase 3s and then sent them in waves of suicide missions, jumping all over the map and destroyed all their infrastructure before a final successful invasion. Sure they were effective and did something no other unit could do, but none came home and it cost me about 10,000 credits to do it.
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Old 11-20-2006, 12:27 PM   #19
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Rust_Lord, the interdictor may have been tougher in the books and the flight sim but in this particular game the interdictor is not made for combat. The interdictor shouldn't have to fight either.
The interdictor can enter combat and survive without a scratch on it's armor if used correctly...
-Star destroyers are extremly weak to proton torpedoes and if in the vicinity of an interdicor becomes much tougher to destroy. The Star Destroyer along with it's fighters can defend the interdictor form any attacks made by enemy cruisers or fighters.
-Most rebel and consortium players prefer a bombing run tactic by rushing with B-wings and Skiprays to quickly deactivate the shield systems or hangar bay, but an interdictor defeats this strategy. Keep Tie defenders and TIE phantoms nearby to pick off any fighters that move into range.
-High level space stations are equipped with numerous pronton torpedo HP's forcing the player to keep his heavy cruisers out of range, consequently leaving his fighters to the mercy of the enemy corvettes. Using an interdictor solves this problem. The heavy cruisers will defend the interdictor from attack in addition to being safeguarded by fighters.

Phantoms and Scouts may not be necessary for victory in a battle but they certainly help. I like knowing where my enemy is without sacrificing my TIE interceptors or TIE Defenders to corvettes (they may be trivial losses but I don't see the point in wasting fighters needlessly). One maurader cruiser or corvette can wipe out an entire recon force of TIE Defenders and TIE Interceptors without any difficulty preventing any recon mission from being a success. The Phantom however has no problems. Besides, sending in TIE Interceptors and TIE Defenders reveals your position and makes it easier for the enemy to know where to send their cruisers and fighters.
I agree with about pop cap space though, that's why I send in only one Phantom squadron or one Scout squadron. That takes up only one pop cap space.

I think the primary use of the DT phase 3 is guard duty, not assault. Mobility makes no difference when defending. I use them to patrol choke points on the map and to guard my AT-ATs from flanking. They are the best vehicle destroyers in the game as well thanks to their rockets. Phase 3's are extremly effective defensive units if stationed near a repair station and an MDU with an EM field generator.


"You will pay the price for your lack of vision!" - Palpatine
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valter
One maurader cruiser or corvette can wipe out an entire recon force of TIE Defenders and TIE Interceptors without any difficulty preventing any recon mission from being a success. The Phantom however has no problems. Besides, sending in TIE Interceptors and TIE Defenders reveals your position and makes it easier for the enemy to know where to send their cruisers and fighters.
I disagree. If your 'volunteer' TIE sqdn is annihiliated by missiles on one side of the map, then i think you have found where the enemy is! I dont see how sending a sqdn reveals where you are since its purpose is to detach from the main force and go looking at different points on the map. The sqdn could have come from anywhere. You dont fly directly from your fleet; you fly along the perimeter of the map and come from a different angle, thus giving the impression your fleet is in another direction. Thats my tactic anyway.

Fair enough the interdictor in this game is not made for combat but if they are to be useful they will always come under attack and suffer damage in my experience. To cover the cruisers etc they have to fight right along side them and while they may jam missiles they are very vulnerable to enemy cruisers and fighters...especialy star vipers although we know now they will be nerfed. Rather than plug away at the bigger cap ships the AI has seemed to target heroes or weaker ships and once the interdictors shields are down its hardpoints have very few HPs. If youre just going to sit it back and stop retreats its a different story. It really should be pop cap 2.

I agree the DT Ph 3 would make an excellent defensive unit but that is not how I play as the Empire but of course there are times when they have to dig in. As my example shows they are an excellent, if expendable assault unit. But if your tight on cash that is not an option.
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Old 11-20-2006, 12:53 PM   #21
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Althoug hthats what a interdictor should be used for the pop cap is why no one uses it sure you could stop a hard point foring geting blow up but then instead of 5 isds on the feild you have 4 and a intdictor if the pop cap was bigger a interdictor would have more use.


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