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Old 12-11-2006, 10:25 AM   #1
dewayne26
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Jolee knew how?

i'm been playing kotor for awhile. but this has bugged me maybe i missed it everytime. but how the heck did he know we were Revan? i mean he left the order almost what 30years proir?


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Old 12-11-2006, 12:14 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewayne26
i'm been playing kotor for awhile. but this has bugged me maybe i missed it everytime. but how the heck did he know we were Revan? i mean he left the order almost what 30years proir?
Since Revan likely is more than 30 years old at the time he might have met Revan as a child or teen in the order, and somehow remembered and recognized her?

Or he recognized Revan from her last visit to Kashyyk, when she came there with Malak to find the Star Map?

Or the classic plot device: the Force told him.

Overall the time line presented in KotOR is so full of contradictions and inconsistencies it's near-impossible to piece together exactly how things fit together.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:30 AM   #3
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Since Revan likely is more than 30 years old at the time he might have met Revan as a child or teen in the order, and somehow remembered and recognized her?

Or he recognized Revan from her last visit to Kashyyk, when she came there with Malak to find the Star Map?

Or the classic plot device: the Force told him.

Overall the time line presented in KotOR is so full of contradictions and inconsistencies it's near-impossible to piece together exactly how things fit together.
FYI, Revan is canonically a male, not a female.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:35 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Jaevyn View Post
FYI, Revan is canonically a male, not a female.
The Great And All Wise stoffe is well aware of the "official" version, just as she was five years ago when that post was made.


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Old 12-11-2006, 12:19 PM   #5
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of course he saw revan when the dark lord came to kashyyyk the first time.


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Old 12-11-2006, 12:28 PM   #6
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I agree. Jolee was probably spying on Revan and Malak when they came for the Star Map the original time they came to Kashyyyk.


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Old 12-11-2006, 12:28 PM   #7
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yea that only explanation i could think of. i believe Revan in his 20s though. someething Zhar or Dorak said he called Revan and Malak young.


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Old 12-11-2006, 01:02 PM   #8
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I agree. Considering how nosey Jolee is, it's almost a given that he spied on Revan and Malak when they first came to Kashyyyk looking for the Star Map.


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Old 12-11-2006, 01:40 PM   #9
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But Revan should be a man behind the mask the first time he came around, shouldn't he? He seems to wear that mask all the time, even when he discovered the SM in Dantooine. That way, Jolee should never have seen his face and recognized him.

You could argue even if Jolee didn't see Revan's face he knew the PC was Revan because the Star Map in Kashyyyk opened for him. But well, the Star Map could open not only for Revan, right? So again this argument doesn't stand.

So I reckon it's through the Force.

And indeed Jolee could have seen Revan in the jedi order before he left. Plus Revan at that time during training could not possibly have adopted the mask-wearing practice. So this could also be why Jolee knew it.
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:42 PM   #10
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Probably all that "swirling force" and destiny mumbo jumbo. Revan would have likely been wearing the mask getup as little as 5 years prior to rediscovering the map on Kashyyk, so Jolee might not have had an opportunity to see Revan's face. If, on the other hand, people are implying Revan's "force aura" was what Jolee detected the first time he might have "seen" Revan, that may be more likely. There might still have been enough of that left on the second go round.
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Old 12-11-2006, 05:14 PM   #11
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Meh, as Kreia said; You could already see all the Jedi would slay etched on his soul (or whatever the exact quote was) anyways I think Jolee would be able to sense that Revans mind had been changed using the force (you cant tell me something as traumatic as that doesnt leave a 'force scar' )and would of just put the pieces togeather from seeing the others interacting etc.



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Old 12-11-2006, 05:14 PM   #12
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The only explanation is that Jolee is really Revan's father.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas'!m
The only explanation is that Jolee is really Revan's father.
Agreed. Though my Revan version is white.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:33 AM   #14
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Agreed. Though my Revan version is white.
The force works in mysterious ways.

Most likely Jolee new through the force or that Jolee new Revan while he was in the order, pre-mask wearing.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:13 AM   #15
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I agree with the swirling force thing that was brought up.

Imagine that powerful and unique Jedi have a certain "flavor" in the force, that someone, especially a secluded yet perceptive old Jedi Consular, would be able to recognize. Even if he never saw Revan's face.


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Old 12-12-2006, 02:58 AM   #16
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If Jolee couldn't see Revan's face, Revan's presence through the Force is how Jolee would have recognized him/her as we've seen how that works in the Star Wars movies once one Force user has been around another Force user.


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Old 12-12-2006, 04:13 PM   #17
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The only logical answer is that Jolee sensed his presence through the Force.


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Old 12-12-2006, 04:25 PM   #18
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As has already been stated, given how many times Jolee has tried to access the Star Map, he probably saw Revan the first time he came around. Neither he nor Freyyr was ever able to do that, but Revan did it the first time. Of course, he didn't see Revan's face under the mask at that time, but when this stranger then comes around and does it the first time too, it's pretty big clue. Jolee is no fool, and knowing the council and its shortcomings, he probably filled in the blanks after that.


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Old 12-12-2006, 05:15 PM   #19
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He might not have been wearing the mask at that point. I suspect someone's Force signature is as unique as their fingerprints, too, and Jolee would have recognized it when he returned.


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Old 12-12-2006, 05:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
He might not have been wearing the mask at that point.
I don't know... The game makes a pretty big point out of Revan being known for wearing a mask - that's why even Juhani doesn't recognize Revan in spite of having been saved on Taris by Revan and then come to see Revan as a hero.

So it seems pretty clear to me that Revan used to wear the mask even before he was cast out of the jedi order and fell to the dark side. He even wears the mask in the cutscene where he and Malak find the Star Map on Dantooine. And they definitely haven't fallen at this point, since Malak makes a big issue out of how they can never go back to the jedi order, if they use the Star Map.


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Old 12-14-2006, 12:55 AM   #21
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I doubt Jolee ran into Revan at all. If he sensed a lightsider nearby, he'd be pretty stupid to let our favorite hermit live, what with searching for a Star Map and all...

I also doubt Jolee would be able to survive a direct confrontation with Revan and Malak. He also doesn't seem like the kind of person who'd let them get away so easily, when it would be a fairly simple matter to get them killed. Organizing a force of Wookiee hunters familiar with the Shadowlands (which Revan and Malak were not), would be able to kill them both.

Since neither of them tried to get each other killed (which would have been in their interests), the only explanation is that they never even met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
So it seems pretty clear to me that Revan used to wear the mask even before he was cast out of the jedi order and fell to the dark side.
I agree. There's one theory which I've stolen as my own, that says it was a taboo on Revan's hoomeworld to expose any faces. It would explain why random NPCs throughout the game aren't screaming "OMFG!!! U R REVAN!!!11!!1one!"

How Jolee could have recognized Revan after the reasons I listed, I have no clue at all. Perhaps Bastila told him? In the event that she'd be captured or killed, there'd have to be someone who would know the truth. And Jolee does seem like the best party member for that to have been confided too.


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Old 12-21-2006, 04:57 AM   #22
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I doubt Jolee ran into Revan at all. If he sensed a lightsider nearby, he'd be pretty stupid to let our favorite hermit live, what with searching for a Star Map and all...

I also doubt Jolee would be able to survive a direct confrontation with Revan and Malak. He also doesn't seem like the kind of person who'd let them get away so easily, when it would be a fairly simple matter to get them killed. Organizing a force of Wookiee hunters familiar with the Shadowlands (which Revan and Malak were not), would be able to kill them both.

Since neither of them tried to get each other killed (which would have been in their interests), the only explanation is that they never even met.
A band of Wookiees will be able to kill Revan and Malak? Oh Please!!!

Being familiar with the land is one thing but that does not means that wookiees will have the edge over such powerful Sith Lords.

Revan and Malak were alone on Lehon planet (an unknown world to them) and many Rakatans attacked them, but they got pawned. Same will happen to Wookiees.

And Jolee will most definately avoid direct confrontation with these two powerful Sith Lords. He might be an old hermit but he is not an idiot.

Revan and Malak passed throught these shadowlands in such a secrecy that Jolee did not had the slightest clue about their existance. Revan is indeed a genius. But this does not means that they had encountered no dangers in their search for Star Map in Shadowlands.

After-all Shadowlands was a dangerous place and wookiees avoided living there.
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
A band of Wookiees will be able to kill Revan and Malak? Oh Please!!!
Who says it would be just a band? I doubt Revan and Malak could defeat several platoons of Wookiees firing at them from all sides. They're not all-powerful Force gods, contrary to most fanboy beliefs. If you blast them, they die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan and Malak were alone on Lehon planet (an unknown world to them) and many Rakatans attacked them, but they got pawned. Same will happen to Wookiees.
Numbers are a different matter there. Is it ever stated how many Rakata attacked them? No, it isn't. Large enough numbers can overwhelm anyone, Sith Lords or not.

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After-all Shadowlands was a dangerous place and wookiees avoided living there.
Living there and visiting there are different matters. From what's seen in KotOR and the EU, most Wookiees visit it (and return) at some point in their lives.


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Old 12-12-2006, 05:16 PM   #24
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Umm, maybe he just worked it out? I worked it out. There were more than enough clues, and Jolee knew better than most what the Jedi council were capable of.

The alternative is that Jolee got a vision through the force. I like the idea that the force approached a powerful force user, a companion of Revan's, to make a decision for the future of the galaxy - and in true Jolee fashion, he decided just to let events run their course.

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I suspect someone's Force signature is as unique as their fingerprints
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:32 PM   #25
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More likely that he was. When he discovers the SM on Dantooine (in the vision) he's already wearing the mask. Since that map would have led him to Kashyyk, it's likely that he was wearing the mask when he found that SM. I don't remember JB actually saying he saw the two of them @ the map. If JB didn't, then it's possible that Jolee merely put 2+2 together and figured it out. So, basically, JB saw/fealt something or reasoned his way to that conclusion.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:34 PM   #26
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Yes. Plus, of course, Jolee realises that Revan "has a destiny," as he points out. Most likely he saw that the force was rather potent with Revan, which is another big clue.


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Old 12-12-2006, 06:51 PM   #27
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Umm...when you find the Star Map in K1 on Kashyyyk, Jolee is there with you, and the computer basically tells you that you're Revan, with the whole 'match found' thing. I remember Jolee says "Match found. What the--". I assume he figured out why the computer said that soon after.


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Old 12-12-2006, 06:59 PM   #28
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The Architect's explanation is a plausible one but so is Jae's and a few others explaining the swirling Force and the Force aura thing. Both are good explanations and maybe it is a bit of both.

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Old 12-13-2006, 03:36 AM   #29
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the computer basically tells you that you're Revan, with the whole 'match found' thing.
If Jolee indeed saw Revan and Malak access the Star Map, the "Match Found" thing would spill some beans. But if he didn't, "Match Found" would tell nothing about Revan because it could be anyone who had accessed the Map, especially when Jolee didn't even know what the Star Map leads to and how the Star Forge is related to Revan.
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
If Jolee indeed saw Revan and Malak access the Star Map, the "Match Found" thing would spill some beans. But if he didn't, "Match Found" would tell nothing about Revan because it could be anyone who had accessed the Map, especially when Jolee didn't even know what the Star Map leads to and how the Star Forge is related to Revan.
Umm...no. Anyone could have accessed the map you say? Like who? Freyyyr (spelling?) tried and failed. Jolee tried and failed. Now, who does that leave? Revan and Malak.

Did you know that the computer tells you the name of every person that has tried to/has accessed the Star Map on Kashyyyk? Revan, Malak, Jolee and Freyyyr were the only ones.

So, after 50 odd failed attempts from Jolee and about seven or eight (can't remember) failed attempts from Freyyyr, isn't is reasonable to assume that Jolee would have reacted "what the--" since the computer gives you access after one attempt?

Like I've said, I'm sure Jolee would have figured it out by then, as the only other ones apart from him and Freyyyr who tried to access the Star Map was Revan and Malak. Why else do you think Jolee says "Match found, what the--". Think about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
I agree. There's one theory which I've stolen as my own, that says it was a taboo on Revan's hoomeworld to expose any faces. It would explain why random NPCs throughout the game aren't screaming "OMFG!!! U R REVAN!!!11!!1one!"
I really like this theory. It does make sense. Also, if Revan's memories have indeed fully returned, he/she would remember this, right? I really think the devs of K3 should use this idea, since that way, Revan would be easy to bring back, since regardless of alignment, Revan would be wearing the mask, so you wouldn't have to worry about his/her appearance, which would make things a hell of a lot easier for the devs.

Just have two different voice actors (for male and female Revan) some different dialogue depending on Revan's alignment, one blue lightsaber and one red lightsaber (to represent his/her past, blue for Jedi/LS and red for Sith/DS) and his/her costume and tada! Revan can be in K3.


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Old 12-14-2006, 05:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Architect
Did you know that the computer tells you the name of every person that has tried to/has accessed the Star Map on Kashyyyk? Revan, Malak, Jolee and Freyyyr were the only ones.
Oh, I forgot that. Sorry, my bad. I'm a totally forgetful person.

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Old 12-14-2006, 06:06 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
Oh, I forgot that. Sorry, my bad. I'm a totally forgetful person.
No problemo {in Arnie (Terminator) voice}.


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Old 12-14-2006, 06:13 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Architect
Like I've said, I'm sure Jolee would have figured it out by then, as the only other ones apart from him and Freyyyr who tried to access the Star Map was Revan and Malak. Why else do you think Jolee says "Match found, what the--". Think about it.
Now that you reminded me what the computer said, it'd be easy to figure out. But well, just a question: was the "Match Found" thing said at the very beginning? Coz "Match Found" could mean more than "Identity Match Found". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jolee said the computer wouldnt respond to him no matter what, is that so? That means computer has a way to screen the person attempting to access. "Match Found" could also mean "Match of ability/brainwaves pattern/anything that made Revan and Malak qualified to interact with the computer". So, even when Revan attempted in his second run and the computer said "Match Found", they dont necessarily mean he had accessed before.

That is to say, when another potent user came along, the computer could just go, "Match Found". So the whole thing may not really suggest to Jolee that he is Revan.
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:51 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
Now that you reminded me what the computer said, it'd be easy to figure out. But well, just a question: was the "Match Found" thing said at the very beginning? Coz "Match Found" could mean more than "Identity Match Found". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jolee said the computer wouldnt respond to him no matter what, is that so? That means computer has a way to screen the person attempting to access. "Match Found" could also mean "Match of ability/brainwaves pattern/anything that made Revan and Malak qualified to interact with the computer". So, even when Revan attempted in his second run and the computer said "Match Found", they dont necessarily mean he had accessed before.

That is to say, when another potent user came along, the computer could just go, "Match Found". So the whole thing may not really suggest to Jolee that he is Revan.
To be honest, I can't remember. I'm hoping someone could show the dialogue so it would tell us exactly what was said. From what I remember, 'match found' is to do with the DNA, it means that the individual has successfully gained access to the Star Map before, and we know that Jolee didn't, that's why he never got 'match found'.

I could be wrong, but what I do remember is that the computer on Kashyyyk I interpreted as a big clue that basically told me I was Revan, so whatever was said, it must have been something 'eye brow raising'.

It's been a while since I've played KotOR. Oh and, I'll reply to your topic tomorrow, because I'm logging off now.


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Old 12-22-2006, 05:11 AM   #35
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I think that Jolee must have known. I also think he knew Revan as a padawan, and recognised him the first time revan went to Kashyyyk.
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:38 PM   #36
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As much as I enjoyed all of the creative responses to this question, I have a hard time believing the force just told Jolee that the person standing in front of him is the same person who came here many years ago with Malak and accessed the StarMap, someone he may or may not have spied on many, many years ago.

Balderdash was close, but in Vader's case, he was feeling the presence of his old master. Someone he once knew very closely.
I don't think Jolee knew Revan this way.

However, Jae's mention of a "Force Signature" is worth pondering. If there is such a thing, wouldn't we have heard tell of it earlier?

There's also no mention of them meeting previous. If he had met Revan earlier, wouldn't he have sensed his/her destiny like he sensed the destiny of that Sunrider girl? I have a feeling that if he did meet Revan earlier, he'd have remembered.

I'm also not sure Jolee would have just figured it was Revan either.
I mean, I like Jolee and sometimes he's funny, but he's not too bright as I see it.
How in the world can a jedi of his magnitude be stuck on an such an easily escapeable planet as Kashyyk? He could have mind-tricked and snuck his way off that planet long ago.

No, I'm sorry, This is just one of those things that writers and movie producers call a "plot hole". It's just a detail that got missed.

Perhaps in the next installment of this series, they'll give us some insight into this.

...but, I doubt it.


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Old 12-22-2006, 09:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygnus Q'ol
I'm also not sure Jolee would have just figured it was Revan either.
I mean, I like Jolee and sometimes he's funny, but he's not too bright as I see it.
How in the world can a jedi of his magnitude be stuck on an such an easily escapeable planet as Kashyyk? He could have mind-tricked and snuck his way off that planet long ago.
I don't think Jolee wanted to leave--I think it was a self-imposed exile. He wanted his solitude because he felt so guilty about Nayama, and he needed that time to come to grips with that guilt.


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Old 12-22-2006, 04:35 PM   #38
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Revan and Malak killed by a wookie squad? I don't think so. In an open battle, the wookies would need hundreds of men to overwhelm Revan and Malak. And Jedi can sense an ambush, especially Jedi of Revan's and Malak's strength. 2 Jedi CAN mow through a squad. Like Yoda and Obi Wan did in episode 3.
And I assume that Revan and Malak were friends at that time, and have fought together in combat many times. If 2 Jedi work together, covering each other, coordinating their moves they are a lot harder to kill, at least it seems that way when you watch/read such "teamfights".
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Old 12-24-2006, 01:51 PM   #39
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For all you talking about Wookies vs. Sith, remember that the power of the Force is not only combat, and combat is not only using a lightsaber. While it is true that it would not be physically possible to deflect hundreds of blaster bolts coming from all directions at once, Force or no, Revan was obviously not stupid enough to get into a situation where that would be necessary. He was a tactical genius, as is mentioned several times in the game. His power over the Force was enormous, and he would easily be able to sense hundreds of Wookies coming after him. The Wookies might also know the terrain better than him, but as Revan was a great tactician, I doubt he would fail to scout a dangerous area (and no one can deny that the Shadowlands are dangerous!) before entering it himself. He would use tactics that never forced him to face all 200 or whatever Wookies at once. Rather, he would pick them off one by one or in small groups that are easy to kill. He could also use the Force to spread fear or confusion through the ranks, making his job even easier. If he needed information, he could probably pull it right out of the mind of one of the Wookies. He might even use the Force to compel all his enemies to simply throw themselves off a cliff. Revan killed many Jedi, and a non Force-user would be even more vulnerable to his attacks.

This brings me to the second part of my point, which is that the Force is not only combat. Revan was a master of other uses as well. While it would have been Malak's style to go in all guns blazing, killing everything, Revan seems like he would rather slip in and out quietly. He would have no trouble waving his fingers and saying "We aren't the Jedi you're looking for" and that would be that. If he was trapped in the Shadowlands by an army of Wookies, he could make himself invisible, make himself run incredibly fast, or simply rise straight up and back to his ship. Or, if he didn't want to run, he could take control of the Shadowlands beasts and make them attack the Wookies. There's no end to the possibilities the Force offers an adept as powerful as Revan, and he was smart enough to exploit all of them.

This brings me to my last point, which is that Jolee probably spied on Revan while he was using the Star Map, but did not try to attack him because he knew he would die. Jolee, being a Jedi (or former Jedi) would have been able to hide himself from the senses of Revan. Also, while Revan was using the Star Map he was no doubt distracted by the object of his years-long quest. These circumstances would have enabled Jolee to sneak close and find out what they were doing.
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Old 12-24-2006, 02:19 PM   #40
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I pretty much agree with you. Except that manipulating the minds of 200 dedicated wookiee warriors might be too much for just about any Jedi.

But anyway, those who think that the Jedi wouldn't a chance. Don't forget Malak! I don't know why, but Malak seems to have a really bad reputation around here. But Malak was one of the most promising students at his time, second only to Revan. Malak may be rude and brutal (later on) and he lacks a tactical talent, but he is by no means stupid.
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