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Old 11-04-2007, 09:15 PM   #1
John Galt
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The Jedi Problem

I've often heard it said that implementing Jedi in a MMO would be impossible, or at least extremely difficult, as we've seen both flavors of solution in SWG, extremely restrictive, and open to all.

How do you think Jedi should be implemented in a hypothetical "KotOR-era" MMO(I'd assume Mando wars or early Jedi Civil War, when there actually were a quite a few jedi)?





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Old 11-04-2007, 10:47 PM   #2
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I think that it would be a good idea if the setting for this hypothetical mmo was during the Jedi Civil War.

This is because both the Jedi and Sith are trying to bolster their ranks inorder to wage war aginst one another. Also this is a period where there are two distinct sides (Republic/Jedi and Sith) in a distinct conflict (Jei Civil War). Unlike in SWG where there is supposed to be a ragtag group of rebels waging guerilla warfare against the Empire. This way there could be numerous players as Jedi without disrupting the setting of the games.

And as far as Jedi/Sith being there all powerful beings that they are often portrayed as in the movies, I got the impression when playing K1 and K2 that an experienced Jedi/Sith was just about as hard to kill as an experienced bounty hunter, smuggler, spy, commando etc.

In the words of Atton Rand "Jedi aren't that hard to kill, you know." You just need to know how to go about killing them.
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:38 AM   #3
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Don't implement Jedi.

Jedi are far too overrated anyway. Besides, most MMOs are all about classes and specialization anyway, with medics helping out the tanks and the tanks providing cover for the nukers. So, we won't miss the Jedi. Just keep regular old Sith and Republic military units and use the Jedi as SPECIAL NPCs.

Even in the missions the players face in SWG, it feels as though you are just a cog in the machine, even if you are of the Jedi class. So, no real need to have the Jedi class.


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Old 11-05-2007, 12:45 AM   #4
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Lots and lots of AI characters as well?
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Old 11-05-2007, 01:39 AM   #5
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Easy. No Jedi. At all.

I'm no MMO expert, but the only MMO I've ever tried out had a lot of "Do this for me, and I'll give you something which you can then use to persuade this other guy to let you do something for him, then he'll give you something that you can use to persuade this next guy to do something for him," or "Kill 14 skeletons, and I'll give you a shiny new potion... I don't really know why I want you to kill exactly 14 skeletons, but... do it anyway." Jedi don't really seem like the type of people to run around like a lab rat doing these random odd-jobs for store owners. I don't really see how they can be implemented realistically.


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Old 11-05-2007, 01:55 AM   #6
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Not letting players be Jedi would be silly. Thats one of the main reasons why a MMO in the KotOR universe would work so well, because there were a lot of Jedi. And as we can see from Galaxies, everybody wants to be a Jedi. I know I would be pretty disappointed if I couldn't be a Jedi.


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Old 11-05-2007, 04:40 AM   #7
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Having thousands of Jedi wouldn't make sense, but also having none would ruin the popularity of the game. It really depends on where in time the MMO would be set, and what the balance would be.

Having other player classes and limited Jedi is what made Galaxies work so well. It was when the patch came that let everybody be Jedi that killed the game once and for all. So, why not make a sort of Galaxies clone? It was a fantastic game up until LA gave in to the casual gamers and ruined it for everybody.

I dunno about you, but having thousands of Jedi running around buying stuff with credits, dancing naked in the streets and in bars getting smashed would ruin the game just as easy as if you couldn't play them at all. Besides, as has been said, Jedi are overrated to an extent.

I'd much rather be a professional Bounty Hunter or something, seeing as many of the better ones, like Jango and Boba, have been known to kill Jedi for a living. Being a Jedi would be fun, but having everybody be a Jedi or Sith would ruin the epic feeling very very quickly. Whats the point of being 1% of the galaxies population, gifted with supernatural powers and a beam of plasma when you are not unique in any way at all compaired to everybody else?

Remember, even as a Jedi you would not be Revan or Exile. You would be the Jedi cannon fodder that Revan and Exile killed like flies on their way from point A to point B.

Do I have a real opinion on how to do Jedi/Sith? No, not really. But, for the time being, I will trust Bioware with this seeing as they know more about making games than I do.
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Old 11-05-2007, 06:17 AM   #8
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Having other player classes and limited Jedi is what made Galaxies work so well. It was when the patch came that let everybody be Jedi that killed the game once and for all. So, why not make a sort of Galaxies clone? It was a fantastic game up until LA gave in to the casual gamers and ruined it for everybody.
But, what happens to new players once the Jedi limit is filled?

When word spreads that new players can't be Jedi, that arbitrary distinction you want will effectively cap the player pool.

Very nice for those who signed up early, but unfair to those who come later.

Unless you think that only you deserve such status, while the rest are merely "casual" gamers underserving of the full experience. Very elitist, imo.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcinroc
But, what happens to new players once the Jedi limit is filled?

When word spreads that new players can't be Jedi, that arbitrary distinction you want will effectively cap the player pool.

Very nice for those who signed up early, but unfair to those who come later.

Unless you think that only you deserve such status, while the rest are merely "casual" gamers underserving of the full experience. Very elitist, imo.
Actually the limited jedi he was talking about was because of the difficulty in achieving Jedi status. Everyone had the potential, it was just a very LOOOOOONG wait to become one. On top of that being a jedi meant risking permadeath.
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Old 02-29-2008, 12:50 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by True_Avery
Having thousands of Jedi wouldn't make sense, but also having none would ruin the popularity of the game. It really depends on where in time the MMO would be set, and what the balance would be.

Having other player classes and limited Jedi is what made Galaxies work so well. It was when the patch came that let everybody be Jedi that killed the game once and for all. So, why not make a sort of Galaxies clone? It was a fantastic game up until LA gave in to the casual gamers and ruined it for everybody.

I dunno about you, but having thousands of Jedi running around buying stuff with credits, dancing naked in the streets and in bars getting smashed would ruin the game just as easy as if you couldn't play them at all. Besides, as has been said, Jedi are overrated to an extent.

I'd much rather be a professional Bounty Hunter or something, seeing as many of the better ones, like Jango and Boba, have been known to kill Jedi for a living. Being a Jedi would be fun, but having everybody be a Jedi or Sith would ruin the epic feeling very very quickly. Whats the point of being 1% of the galaxies population, gifted with supernatural powers and a beam of plasma when you are not unique in any way at all compaired to everybody else?

Remember, even as a Jedi you would not be Revan or Exile. You would be the Jedi cannon fodder that Revan and Exile killed like flies on their way from point A to point B.

Do I have a real opinion on how to do Jedi/Sith? No, not really. But, for the time being, I will trust Bioware with this seeing as they know more about making games than I do.
i strongly agree with this, you need jedi to keep people interested but however they shouldn't be as good as revan to start but with the ablility to get that good at a high level, also it would be fun to be a bounty hunter, or a soldier even, or even a mercinary.
You should also be able to choose your class, and speces, such as mandalorian, human, twilek, transhodian etc.


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Old 11-05-2007, 04:56 AM   #11
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Well if its called "Knights" of the old republic then there must be Jedi, so either figure out a valid way to use them, or call it something else.
But as said before, if it is set roughly around the previous games, the Jedi Civil war is probably the most suitable time period, although as I said in another thread, the new Sith wars (2000-1000 BBY) would be a good time to have it, as you have a thousand years of war to play with, thousands of Jedi and Sith, and less chance of messing up the space time continuum.


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Old 11-05-2007, 05:20 AM   #12
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I would say make it random force sensitivity. Not every person should be able to become a Jedi. Or alternately they could limit the number of jedi(and dark jedi) allowed to be logged in.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tommycat
I would say make it random force sensitivity. Not every person should be able to become a Jedi. Or alternately they could limit the number of jedi(and dark jedi) allowed to be logged in.
The problem with that is many will only want to be a Jedi. Why would I buy the game if it's possible I can't be a jedi (or have to keep creating players till it let's me)
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:49 PM   #14
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First off, on the point of no Jedi...

Not possible. People whined enough about the Battlefront franchise not having playable Jedi that Pandemic added them in the second game. It wasn't necessary at all, but when people think Star Wars, people want Jedi. Very few games have been successful without them, only flight sims and that because you can't ride on top of a Tie Fighter into battle swinging your lightsaber wildly. That's the unfortunate reality of the Star Wars franchise.

Restriction of number of Jedi...

It would seem silly to put quotas and make Jedi very hard to acquire. People obviously want to play as a Jedi, as demonstrated by Galaxies, so when I'm paying 15$ a month, I want to have that experience too. Certainly, a lot of people would like to play a non-Jedi and things like that should be implemented.

Restriction based on the number of Jedi/Sith logged in...

Frankly, unless your life revolves about sitting around waiting in queue to enter and play your Jedi/Sith character, this is really a bad idea. People pay good money to play, not to sit around being told the quota has been filled and that they need to play another class.

Nuker, healer, tank...

Jedi Sentinel/Watchman, Jedi Consular/Master, Jedi Guardian/Weapons Master.
Sith Sentinel/Assassin or Sith Consular/Master, make up something, Sith Guardian/Marauder.

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With that being said, I still think the best course of action is to make everyone a Jedi. Then there's no problem. Having hundreds of Jedi running around is non-believable? Remember that MMOs are divided into different servers and if a possible KotOR MMO succeeds, you won't have 3 million Jedi running around all at once.


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Old 11-05-2007, 11:00 PM   #15
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The only way I think including Jedi would work well is if they placed big restrictions on the Jedi class. Not restrictions on what you have to do to become one, but the abilities you have if you choose to be one - armor restrictions, disadvantages against certain other classes, areas on each planet where using the Force is restricted, increased Force recharge, etc. The movies make it clear that Jedi aren't all-powerful, and they shouldn't be treated as such in a MMORPG.


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Old 11-05-2007, 11:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Sparrow
The only way I think including Jedi would work well is if they placed big restrictions on the Jedi class. Not restrictions on what you have to do to become one, but the abilities you have if you choose to be one - armor restrictions, disadvantages against certain other classes, areas on each planet where using the Force is restricted, increased Force recharge, etc. The movies make it clear that Jedi aren't all-powerful, and they shouldn't be treated as such in a MMORPG.

Of course, they would not be all powerful beings, but in the context of an RPG, they certainly are more powerful then the average schmoe.

I disagree about disadvantages against certain classes. Although it works relatively well in SP, in an MP environment, people will cry imbalance. It is unfair for a class to have some inherent dueling advantage against another.

During a battlefield encounter for example, a Jedi played by me encounters an Bounty Hunter, who has an inherent bonus in fighting against any Jedi classes. I might as well, remove my hands from the keyboard, let him kill me and wait to be resurrected or whatever they'll call that. Remember that this is MP, logic is very different.


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Well said Luke. As both of us are experienced mmo players I think its easier for us to see what would work and what would not. I think you should have the option to be a non-Jedi if you want but I think everybody should be allowed to be a Jedi if they want.

hehe, I hardly call myself that experienced I once got tanking tips from a Warlock. Really nice fellow though

Anyway, the problem I have with implementing Jedi classes as well as non-Jedi is a question of who will play them. I don't want the developers to waste time and energy into classes that people don't play. I'm just basing this on the assumption that the vast majority of players will ignore non-Jedi.

It's the same thing about quotas and restricting it only to the most hardcore players. This isn't some special hard to acquire item we're talking about, it's an entire character class. Let's say for example, a server has 5000 active players, not counting the alt characters. Only 50 of them are force users, Sith or Jedi, because only they have managed to grind/do the quests/do something insane, to get there. Why bother making gameplay mechanics, force powers, animations, clothing, lightsabers, for only 1% of the population? Of course, the numbers I chose make it seem really low, but I chose them because it sounds more powerful


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Old 11-05-2007, 11:04 PM   #17
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Well said Luke. As both of us are experienced mmo players I think its easier for us to see what would work and what would not. I think you should have the option to be a non-Jedi if you want but I think everybody should be allowed to be a Jedi if they want.


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Old 11-06-2007, 12:58 AM   #18
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When I think about it, Matrix Online gave me a similar feeling of loss... people everywhere with superpowers in the matrix, when there are supposed to be a limited amount.

But when I actually played the game it fit and played so well that it made me rethink my opinion of it. They made it work, they made it pretty balanced, and all in all I thought it made some sense and added some fun to the game. You also weren't al powerful... there were plenty of things that would whip your f***ing body around like a doll. Agents for example.

So when I see hundreds of Jedi running around, I'm reminded of Matrix Online and the subtle class system they had that worked near perfectly... so after thinking on that, I might just reconsider my opinion of many Jedi. It could actually be pretty damn fun.

I still would like to play something like a bounty hunter, but after thinking about the above I am placing doubts on that idea. Now that I have a double opinion on this, I'll sit in the gray and wait too see how this all ends up.
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Old 11-06-2007, 01:23 AM   #19
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Well I would rather there be something OTHER than jedi to play. I prefer smuggler/scoundrel types. Not to mention there are a number of people who love the star wars aspect, but would rather not be jedi. I would say it's probably best to allow the other classes, and you become Force Sensitive. After you become Force sensitive you can get training with either a Sith Master or a Jedi master. Of course you could deny the training altogether. I know I would play as a smuggler. If they don't allow smuggler in the game, you'll see a smuggler being role played. I definately hope there are more than 2 professions in the game(Jedi/Sith with 3 subclasses). People like choices. Its part of the reason people liked the original SWG with 32 professions.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
How do you think Jedi should be implemented in a hypothetical "KotOR-era" MMO?
Personally, I would like to see something similar to what SWG had in the pre-cu era. I believe they did it right, everyone had the opportunity to become "force sensitive" and maybe even a jedi one day. I like the fact they were hunted by BH's if their "visibility" became too high. If the BH sucessfully hunted and killed the jedi, there was a huge chunk of xp loss.

I'd like it to be less grinding then what was experienced pre-cu. After doing the quests, visiting the various POI's and hours of mindless grinding, it took me about 10 months total to go from force sensitive to full template Jedi Knight [ I was a village unlock]. Which included the padawan/knight trials.

I gotta say, for the first two months of trying to grind my jedi template away, I was very stressed out and hoping a player or NPC wouldn't suddenly show up and give me visibilty. The stress level went down considerably once I got master lightsaber. This was not easy....and I'm not saying it was super hard, but it simply took a lot of time and focus. And needless to say I didn't answer my phone much either lol.

The main problem with this in SWG was the fact the timeline the game was set in, it simply didn't allow for that many jedi [of course, for all we know these same jedi could have been scattered and in hiding - totally different conversation]. Though expansions #2 "Rage of the Wookiees" and #3 "Trials of Obi-Wan" didn't exactly fall into the timeline either, they just tried to cash in on the movies-which is the same way I feel about what they did with jedi. Funny how I rarely heard the same "continuity" people complain about the expansions as they did with jedi. Anyways, I think it would be great system for a Kotor era type mmo - if one were to exist.

Ok, getting tired, thoughts are scattered a bit...i'm sure I missed something.

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Old 11-06-2007, 05:35 PM   #21
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My ideas:

Make a "force sensitive" trait random among new players, giving ambient bonuses to any profession they choose(since not all force sensitives became Jedi), but also adding a few risks, like offering bonuses to Bounty Hunters to kill force sensitives, maybe attracting a little attention from random-encountered NPC assassins and Jedi-hunters.

If a player were to get "force sensitive," he or she could apply to become a Jedi or sith, and the training process would have to be rather difficult. Once fully trained, life would become VERY difficult for Jedi, being hunted constantly by assassins, bounty hunters, etc. This could be done by having the Sith, Mandalorians, or whatever the opposition group is, post huge bounties on Jedi.

Not a very developed idea, but I think it would certainly be better than quotas.





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Old 11-06-2007, 06:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
My ideas:

Make a "force sensitive" trait random among new players, giving ambient bonuses to any profession they choose(since not all force sensitives became Jedi), but also adding a few risks, like offering bonuses to Bounty Hunters to kill force sensitives, maybe attracting a little attention from random-encountered NPC assassins and Jedi-hunters.

If a player were to get "force sensitive," he or she could apply to become a Jedi or sith, and the training process would have to be rather difficult. Once fully trained, life would become VERY difficult for Jedi, being hunted constantly by assassins, bounty hunters, etc. This could be done by having the Sith, Mandalorians, or whatever the opposition group is, post huge bounties on Jedi.

Not a very developed idea, but I think it would certainly be better than quotas.

If there are huge amounts of bounty on Jedi's you need to put a huge amount on Sith's too. Wouldn't be all that fair that if you play as a Jedi you have always to be cautious not to get killed by a Bounty Hunter but as a Sith you can walk through every city and evrybody says "Hi, how's the business going?"


Therefore my idea is to give Jedi's certain restrictions. For Example no heavy armors. Only Robes, mabye some special one's like Arca Jeth's robe and so on.
Only powers of their side. A Jedi who uses the Darth vader grib is imo not very likely(leave Katarn out of this). I think a group of Jedi's who constantly heal each other and use some protecting powers is very hard to deal with.

Of course your amount of "mana" is limited. Then no Light siders together with darksiders. If a jedi wants to become a sith then fine, but he has to give up the special force powers and same ith Sith's to jedi's of yourse

Oh And don't let the jedi be a class to start from the beginnig with. It sounded relly cool how it was in SWG before NGE. Make a huge Quest for it. And please Bioware/LA do not, I say again DO NOT tell everybody what you'll have to do for it.


Ok now to the point "How do I as xyz(insert a class here except jedi/sith)kill a jedi?". Quite difficult I admit. Like mentioned above certain restrictions to the jedi. No super heavy armors for them, and maybe only the additional ability to use a blaster pistol. I hate the sight of Jedi's walking around with a rocket luncher (agan leave Katarn out of this). A RL could be a method to kill one. Only high Jedi/Sith can "steer" the rocket in another direction.

I'm still thinking how other classes are balanced against Forceusers.

but I'm tired and heading to bed in a few minutes.


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Old 11-06-2007, 06:18 PM   #23
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The more I think about it, the more I prefer an idea of allowing Force sensitivity and powers to absolutely everyone. It won't stop you to be a gunslinger, scoundrel, bounty hunter or whatever, but would put everyone on equal footing without the need of any artificial barrier.

I don't think it's a good idea to make Jedi status so hard to achieve. There's too many risk involved. First, making it too easy and then everyone will be a super-soldier. Second, making too hard and have people pissed at their inability of being a Jedi because they don't have the time and strength to play that much time just for an achievement. Taking lessons from World of Warcraft, making something too restricted to only a few is not a good idea to market an MMO when the trend is to lower grinding to acquire anything.


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Old 11-06-2007, 06:42 PM   #24
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It goes without saying that Sith would have bounties on them too, placed by the Republic, and they would be hunted by the Jedi Order itself, much like Jedi would be hunted by the Sith Empire and Order.





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:47 PM   #25
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Revenge of the Sith, as well as things like KOTOR and others, should show that Jedi are no better or worse than any other character class. I mean, why not have a counter to them being a sniper or ambush they won't even see coming?
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Old 11-07-2007, 10:55 AM   #26
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I mean, why not have a counter to them being a sniper or ambush they won't even see coming?
But they can sense them coming.

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Old 11-06-2007, 07:09 PM   #27
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I like the idea of playing to the strengths of the time period more too.

Why not have non jedi soldiers recruitable to either side with skills much like HK-47 describes in his methods of killing Jedi. Poison gas, mines, and the like that a player would have to give up using if they were to try for Jedihood. Also, in the Kotor era, they have actual Echani, warriors sworn never to become Jedi, but who have techniques to make them more effective against Jedi.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:38 PM   #28
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You'd think they should have. RotS seemed to have disproved this, and further evidence is shown in TSL, Kreia killing the Jedi masters, Atton explaining how easy it was, Revan using assassination droids...okay that last one I can accept they cannot sense robotics but it seems to imply that Jedi are not uber powerful. Certainly we are being shown that they are not as infallible as maybe they were first shown to be.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:41 PM   #29
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It is actually very hard to convey such thing in MMORPGs.

First off, in RoTS, the Jedi were caught totally by surprise and were facing battalions of Clone Troopers. No one is denying that they can defeated by huge numbers, but a single Jedi certainly would take down an entire squad.

TSL provided evidence of specially trained Jedi killers. This seem to be a tiny sect created by Revan. He spoke of how they used tactics to avoid facing a Jedi face to face. An MMORPG does not allow the things Atton mentioned. Except for gassing them I guess, but even so...I believe HK-47 agreed and used similar tactics due to his similar incapacity to face a Jedi on open ground.

At any rate, I still believe disadvantages against certain classes would be an anti-PVP move and would be near impossible to balance.

I'm not denying that they can be killed, I'm just saying that they're more powerful then the other non-Force using classes, want it or not.


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Old 11-09-2007, 12:24 AM   #30
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I wouldn't say the Jedi were outmatched by numbers, but okay. Maybe Revan and the Exile were exceptional in being able to clear out a room of Sith commandos and the like but it still seems a bit off for the Jedi to be killed so easily if they are so powerful. I'd think they'd have to pick up on something. Then again, Atton did say that Jedi can only scratch the surface or something. Maybe in the stress of battle they miss something like that.
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:44 AM   #31
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I say that Jedi should never be a playable class. But for the sake of argument, I propose several methods are made to limit them. 1: There cannot be more than 1000 on a server at one time. Permadeath is enabled for Jedi to allow slots to continually be re-opened. Jedi are more powerful than any other class, but are weak enough to be forced to retreat if faced with worse than 2-1 odds of enemies of equal skill in their classes.

Jedi should also need to remain covert outside Republic bases, otherwise they've got Sith Assassin's ambushing them. This will prevent them from running through Mos Eisley in robes having lightsaber duels. Dark Jedi would have the Bounty Hunters Guild after them.
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
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I say that Jedi should never be a playable class. But for the sake of argument, I propose several methods are made to limit them. 1: There cannot be more than 1000 on a server at one time.
I already explained why it doesn't work. The consumer isn't going to pay 15$ a month for a server to force them out of some content because an artificial quota has been filled. You'd have people queuing up to enter the realm with the Jedi class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Permadeath is enabled for Jedi to allow slots to continually be re-opened.
Let's say you brought your Jedi from level 1 to 35, spending 45 hours doing so. You've gathered great loot, acquired great skill, achieved many goals. You make a mistake and your character just got killed and permanently deleted. Somebody should pay 15$ a month for that? The days of the old MMORPG grinding and targeting niche markets of players who have the time and stamina to wade through another 45 hours to bring back their character to his/her old level of achievements and not make the mistake they did is over.

Then, perhaps I didn't understand you correctly. If you die, you get booted out of the server and have to wait in order to log in as your Jedi character? It brings back the first problem of people having to queue up in order to play a class.

Remember people, this is the post-World of Warcraft world: an MMORPG has to be consumer friendly.


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Jedi are more powerful than any other class, but are weak enough to be forced to retreat if faced with worse than 2-1 odds of enemies of equal skill in their classes.

It makes sense in PvE, but certainly not in PvP.


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Old 11-09-2007, 04:35 PM   #33
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I just really really hope there won't be a great deal of obvious level-grind, if the game will be MMO.

And I think it would be pretty awesome to stand on the wing of a starfighter, wildly swinging my lightsaber. Just need a space-suit with grav-shoes. I could use the force to knock away torpedoes, and the thrill of any moment being vaporized by giant blaster or ion-bolts would be an added bonus.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:30 PM   #34
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Yes, Jedi should be a class for hardcore players. New players should not be able to just pick up Jedi. Yes, if you screw up, you should lose the character. This makes it so that less people are trying to be Jedi, further reducing their numbers.

However, I really don't think Jedi should be present at all.
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Old 11-10-2007, 04:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Yes, Jedi should be a class for hardcore players. New players should not be able to just pick up Jedi. Yes, if you screw up, you should lose the character. This makes it so that less people are trying to be Jedi, further reducing their numbers.

However, I really don't think Jedi should be present at all.
If the Jedi class is restricted, then so is the fan/customer base.

In other words...its a money losing strategy.

LucasArts is not going to waste their time and money developing a game which will only appeal to hard-core gamers.
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Old 11-21-2007, 11:38 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by John Galt
My ideas:

Make a "force sensitive" trait random among new players, giving ambient bonuses to any profession they choose(since not all force sensitives became Jedi), but also adding a few risks, like offering bonuses to Bounty Hunters to kill force sensitives, maybe attracting a little attention from random-encountered NPC assassins and Jedi-hunters.

If a player were to get "force sensitive," he or she could apply to become a Jedi or sith, and the training process would have to be rather difficult. Once fully trained, life would become VERY difficult for Jedi, being hunted constantly by assassins, bounty hunters, etc. This could be done by having the Sith, Mandalorians, or whatever the opposition group is, post huge bounties on Jedi.

Not a very developed idea, but I think it would certainly be better than quotas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Yes, Jedi should be a class for hardcore players. New players should not be able to just pick up Jedi. Yes, if you screw up, you should lose the character. This makes it so that less people are trying to be Jedi, further reducing their numbers.

However, I really don't think Jedi should be present at all.
The questions that arise are: A) are the two of you going to pay for everybody's accounts?, and B) will the two of you be willing to take the blame if the game becomes an utter failure?
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MJ-W4
The questions that arise are: A) are the two of you going to pay for everybody's accounts?, and B) will the two of you be willing to take the blame if the game becomes an utter failure?
You know, I actually like the force/skill slider better than my own idea, but if force-sensitivity were made a random, hidden trait it would certainly make sense if more people were made jedi-trainable in the KotOR era than in the Imperial Era.

And I'm not even entertaining the delusion that Bioware and Lucasarts care what my ideas are, beyond their ability to sell me a game. I was just throwing ideas around and hoping for a response.





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:23 PM   #38
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I personally would enjoy your random feature with the Force, too, however, only in SP, where I can sit in my scrapyard and happily experiment. As soon as we're talking about an MMO, a random feature would be disappointing. Let's say, you'd like to be a perfectly normal protocol droid and only because of the random warbledigook you end up with some sort of organic, Force-filled lump in your system's innards and had no choice but to be a Jedi, like it or not. It wouldn't just be a drawback for those dying (or rather, staying alive) to be Jedi, it might perfectly ruin any proposed non-Jedi or Sith all the same.
The reason I quoted you was simply that you appeared to be so sure about things and I wanted to point out the huge difference between nifty SP features that are more or less bound to give all the world and their grannies headaches, or in some cases, circuit failures when used in MMO.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:48 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ-W4
I personally would enjoy your random feature with the Force, too, however, only in SP, where I can sit in my scrapyard and happily experiment. As soon as we're talking about an MMO, a random feature would be disappointing. Let's say, you'd like to be a perfectly normal protocol droid and only because of the random warbledigook you end up with some sort of organic, Force-filled lump in your system's innards and had no choice but to be a Jedi, like it or not. It wouldn't just be a drawback for those dying (or rather, staying alive) to be Jedi, it might perfectly ruin any proposed non-Jedi or Sith all the same.
The reason I quoted you was simply that you appeared to be so sure about things and I wanted to point out the huge difference between nifty SP features that are more or less bound to give all the world and their grannies headaches, or in some cases, circuit failures when used in MMO.
my basic idea was that you could choose not to be a Jedi, even if you got the "force sensitive" trait, and get some bonuses to reflex saves and the like, but you would be more vulnerable to force-based attacks or suchlike. The point was that players who were "force sensitive" could avoid being railroaded into a particular class (i.e. Jedi, Gray Jedi, or Sith) and alignment, and still get a bonus from the randomness. Likewise for players with little to no "force points;" they would be immune or at least far less vulnerable to psychological force-based attacks, like mind-trick or horror, but would not get the luck-type bonus that would be given to those who are "strong in the force."





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:37 PM   #40
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How about ditching some of the level building and instead making the skills based on how good the player is? Swinging a lightsaber, blocking, deflecting blaster bolts, ect, have the player do and if they're not good enough, tough luck. That might balence things out a little.
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