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Old 06-14-2009, 02:04 PM   #1
Char Ell
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Obsidian CEO still wants to make KotOR 3

GameBanshee's Buck Birnbaum recently interviewed Obsidian Entertainment CEO Feargus Urquhart and posed the following question.

Quote:
GB: With BioWare's Star Wars: The Old Republic MMORPG on the horizon, do you personally think there will ever be a "true" Star Wars: KotOR III? Why or why not?

Feargus: I don't really know. A part of me hopes that there will be, because I think we can do things in the more single player story based RPGs that you just can't do in an MMORPG. Like I said, I really hope that there is one, with BioWare busy on the MMO; I hope LucasArts gives us a shot at making KotOR III.
Source: GameBanshee

There you have it folks. Obsidian still wants to make a single player KotOR 3. With the SWTOR MMORPG in the works does anybody think that LucasArts will even consider it? IMHO highly unlikely.


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Old 06-14-2009, 02:15 PM   #2
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^Too bad Obsidian couldn't make the better of the 2 KOTOR's...it'd be nice to see KOTOR 3...unfortunately...if it's not made by Bioware...it will just be the third one...nothing special really...

Good to hear that someone still wants to make it at least...

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Old 08-25-2009, 12:14 PM   #3
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^Too bad Obsidian couldn't make the better of the 2 KOTOR's...it'd be nice to see KOTOR 3...unfortunately...if it's not made by Bioware...it will just be the third one...nothing special really...

Good to hear that someone still wants to make it at least...
God, when will people get it through their heads? What happened to TSL was LucasArts' fault, not Obsidian's! LA were the ones who rushed the release. Obsidian makes very good games.

I, for one, would certainly not mind a game by Obsidian, as long as LA has learned from their mistake and let them do their thing.


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Old 08-26-2009, 03:45 AM   #4
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God, when will people get it through their heads? What happened to TSL was LucasArts' fault, not Obsidian's! LA were the ones who rushed the release. Obsidian makes very good games.
Honestly, I've even said this to be people who were aware that the game was rushed. I just don't get it.

Mandatory Disclaimer: No matter what your opinions are regarding TSL, the fact that it was under a tight schedule damaged its quality. Whether or not there was quality to be had or quality that could have been is your own judgment and entirely unrelated to this post.


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Old 08-26-2009, 12:32 PM   #5
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God, when will people get it through their heads? What happened to TSL was LucasArts' fault, not Obsidian's! LA were the ones who rushed the release. Obsidian makes very good games.
One could argue that for the time they got to finish the game, they were being too ambitious. But then you consider they initially weren't allowed to play the first KotOR, which made them lose valuable time (what's up with that anyway?), and you realize LucasArts were being unreasonable.

If there's one company I would want to make KotOR 3, it'd be Obsidian, without a doubt.


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Old 08-27-2009, 07:30 PM   #6
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One could argue that for the time they got to finish the game, they were being too ambitious. But then you consider they initially weren't allowed to play the first KotOR, which made them lose valuable time (what's up with that anyway?), and you realize LucasArts were being unreasonable.

If there's one company I would want to make KotOR 3, it'd be Obsidian, without a doubt.
I rather liked TSL better than the original, despite its rough edges. The story as a whole was much more suspenseful and interesting than the original, but the lack in quality was greatly due to the tight schedule they had to keep. I can see areas where the game would have always lacked, even if they really completed it to their intended goal, but it was overall a much better plot than the original game.

I would like to see Obsidian complete the third game because they generated the climax in the second and it has not been resolved with the intro of TOR. I want to see it done as it was intended by Obsidian. At all would be alright if the game were awarded to another company.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:51 PM   #7
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^ What if Bioware remade TSL based on the Obsidian design documents? Same game, same dev cycle, twice the available man hours.

Hehe, You hear that LA? This CEO wants to make you money.


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Old 06-14-2009, 10:58 PM   #8
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I preferred the overall make-up of the first KotOR. The cut-scenes seemed a little cleaner, the gameplay smoother, and frankly, I like the graphics of the first one better. But if they were to make a K3 I would cheer them on until the end. *whispers sneakily* And if they can't get the permission of LucasArts, they could make K3 as a huge mod for K2. It could be accessed via alternate launcher.


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Old 06-14-2009, 11:01 PM   #9
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LA will never let Obsidian make KotOR3 because they failed to meet that ridiculous time table.

Hell, all of Avellone's characters are already being retconned out of existence, if that's any indication.


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Old 06-14-2009, 11:03 PM   #10
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I think the answer I got from Tom Nichols at E3 this year gives us the answer.

Quote:
Was there ever a KOTOR 3 in development, or even talked about being developed?

Tom Nichols: No.
http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/star...lic-interview/

I hope it happens, but I just don't think it will. If Obsidian had had more time to develop TSL I think it could have been superior to the original. So between the two developers I would have probably rather seen Obsidian make KotOR 3 if SW:TOR wasn't happening. I guess anything is possible when it can make LucasArts money, but they will make so much on The Old Republic already.

edit:
Quote:
LA will never let Obsidian make KotOR3 because they failed to meet that ridiculous time table.

Hell, all of Avellone's characters are already being retconned out of existence, if that's any indication.
Yeah, it's too bad that BioWare is pretty much not acknowledging the existence of TSL at all.


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Old 06-14-2009, 11:14 PM   #11
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If Obsidian had had more time to develop TSL I think it could have been superior to the original.
Agreed.

Too bad that they didn't. It remains one of the biggest "what-ifs" in gaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Yeah, it's too bad that BioWare is pretty much not acknowledging the existence of TSL at all.
I don't think that it's just BioWare, Jeff; it's LA. I think that they want everyone to forget that TSL ever existed, because it was the ultimate result of a failed policy of theirs. It caused LA a considerable amount of embarrassment and they caught a lot of flak over it.


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Old 06-15-2009, 12:23 AM   #12
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I don't think that it's just BioWare, Jeff; it's LA. I think that they want everyone to forget that TSL ever existed, because it was the ultimate result of a failed policy of theirs. It caused LA a considerable amount of embarrassment and they caught a lot of flak over it.
Probably right. Explains why it took so long to hear anything about the next game in that universe.

Also, I have a comment about another answer in that interview.

Quote:
GB: It's a well-known fact that quite a bit of content was cut from your first project, Star Wars: KotOR II, prior to its release. Can you give us a little insight into the decisions you had to make during the game's development, as well as what correspondence took place between LucasArts and Obsidian Entertainment as the release date drew nearer?

Feargus: This is a real tough thing to answer, because the real answer is really long and complicated. So, what I'll say is that all games have content cut from them during development. Unfortunately, two things happened with KotOR 2. First, we did not strip it completely out and people were able to find it. Not that I'm trying to sweep it under the rug, but if we hadn't left the stuff in there then the fact that it was missing would never have clouded anything. The second is that we did run out of time to adequately polish the final area.
I think in the long run it was better that the cut content was left partially in the game. People would have thought Obsidian was just an average developer if we were made to believe that TSL's ending was the real finished ending. At least now we know it was mostly on LucasArts.


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Old 06-15-2009, 02:20 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I hope it happens, but I just don't think it will. If Obsidian had had more time to develop TSL I think it could have been superior to the original. So between the two developers I would have probably rather seen Obsidian make KotOR 3 if SW:TOR wasn't happening. I guess anything is possible when it can make LucasArts money, but they will make so much on The Old Republic already.
I could have seen KotOR 3 being designed as a lead in for the Old Republic. But at this point there seems no evidence or even rumors to support that idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
edit:
Yeah, it's too bad that BioWare is pretty much not acknowledging the existence of TSL at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
I don't think that it's just BioWare, Jeff; it's LA. I think that they want everyone to forget that TSL ever existed, because it was the ultimate result of a failed policy of theirs. It caused LA a considerable amount of embarrassment and they caught a lot of flak over it.
I wish I would have taken some screenshots of the story background that was on the TOR website when it first launched. I thought I saw some mention of the Exile back then but now can't seem to find it. If LucasArts and BioWare are minimalizing SW history as set forth in TSL then the one thing they haven't gotten away from is the hidden existence of the Sith, which concept was introduced by TSL. KotOR provided Revan but it was pretty much a self-contained story. Sure you have the shade of Ajunta Pall talking about where the Sith's power came from in KotOR but Obsidian are the ones who introduced the concept of Revan leaving for the Unknown Regions after remembering the threat against the Republic that he had discovered. After all, is it not TSL's concept of the true Sith who have finally revealed themselves and come out of hiding to conquer the Republic?


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Old 08-22-2009, 07:47 AM   #14
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After all, is it not TSL's concept of the true Sith who have finally revealed themselves and come out of hiding to conquer the Republic?
Well, I think I need to step in and correct many of you that think this as TSL only went into more detail about the True Sith, but Canderous talked about them in K1.


Here we have Canderous talking about why the Mandalorians attacked the Republic. We know that Revan and Malak weren't Sith yet.


Later on when you talk to Canderous, he mentions the Sith retreating back to their Empire. It's obvious that he doesn't know the difference between Revan's Sith and the True Sith at the time when you read the end of his dialogue.


Anyway, thought I would clear that up.


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Old 08-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #15
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Well, I think I need to step in and correct many of you that think this as TSL only went into more detail about the True Sith, but Canderous talked about them in K1.

...

Anyway, thought I would clear that up.
My bad. I stand corrected... two months after I made that post. Was it just a matter of it taking that long to get the screenshots, Shem?

That was indeed interesting dialog in KotOR that I had forgotten. Nonetheless I still find it disappointing that TOR appears to be minimalizing the events and characters from KotOR 2: TSL. And TSL did introduce the concept of Revan going to the Unknown Regions though that may well have gotten its impetus from the very dialog Shem quoted. Yes, it will be interesting to see how TOR deals with the characters and events from its SPRPG predecessors. Based on the TOR web comic the Shan clan is still around. I still think it would be cool to have a single player KotOR 3 that served as a lead-in to TOR though.


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Old 06-15-2009, 12:03 PM   #16
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I think the answer I got from Tom Nichols at E3 this year gives us the answer.

http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/star...lic-interview/
No offence to you Jeff, but isn't Tom Nichols, well, flat-out lying here? We heard long time ago about K3 pre-production team being disbanded, last year some concept arts leaked from that cancelled project + it's even mentioned in the official "Rogue Leaders" book about the history of LucasArts.


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Old 06-15-2009, 01:43 AM   #17
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Old 06-15-2009, 02:06 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Qlivuer
LA will never let Obsidian make KotOR3 because they failed to meet that ridiculous time table.

Hell, all of Avellone's characters are already being retconned out of existence, if that's any indication.
Quote:
Was there ever a KOTOR 3 in development, or even talked about being developed?

Tom Nichols: No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Yeah, it's too bad that BioWare is pretty much not acknowledging the existence of TSL at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qliveur
I don't think that it's just BioWare, Jeff; it's LA. I think that they want everyone to forget that TSL ever existed, because it was the ultimate result of a failed policy of theirs. It caused LA a considerable amount of embarrassment and they caught a lot of flak over it.
Oh, the inhumanity!



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Old 06-15-2009, 02:33 AM   #19
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Nope, you're right, they have not actually done away with TSL. They, just, hint at it, rather than openly say, so.



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Old 06-15-2009, 02:53 AM   #20
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Well heck all, who knows what might happen. When you consider the share amount of media that's been developed for KOTOR in just the last few years you realize that the IP (despite a paucity of rpgs) is actually pretty alive (See Duke Nukem Forever). I mean the old republic era is even pretty well established now in the star wars canon, and is owned by the original merchandising giant, Lucas.

Now, TSL.

TSL was darker than KOTOR. Maybe that's why LA wants it to go away. No more tsl, no more Dark Forces, no more Shadows of any Evil Empires, no... LA bigwigs want cute padawans and cartoony graphics with rainbows, dancing gungans and emo sith lords. E for everyones' kids' autistic friends. You dig it, Lucas and crew? Money.
You want good games? Get your kids into T to M rated games, then we can spend all our time and money developing shovelware that doesn't suck. Like TSL: The Lost Levels! Let's face it, Avellone and Feargus don't have much pull in the matter, it's LucasArts' table, they're supposed to make an offer, not the developer. And as someone mentioned above, it's never good to not be in good terms with the license holder. The client is ALWAYS right, no matter how wrong and neglectful they really are.


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Old 06-15-2009, 11:45 AM   #21
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The biggest problem with TOR is that they have not explained how the Jedi Order was rebuilt after the Jedi Civil War, and more specifically, the First Jedi Purge. It's as if the war was nothing more than a small skirmish, a footnote in history, while as we saw in TSL, the war brought the Republic to near death. That also brings up the question of what happened to the Exile's companions. After all, they were supposed to rebuild the order, and as of now, that has been totally ignored.

What perplexes me most, is the fact that BioWare has been continuously using Mark Griskey's score for TSL in their media, which seems to negate their retconning of K2. I mean, if they want everyone to overlook TSL, then they should keep mum on the subject entirely.

If Obsidian wants to do K3, then by all means, give them two to three years, more funds, and a larger development team, and they'll whip a product that will be on par with BioWare's polish, but have a much better plot and C&C than BioWare has ever done.
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Old 06-15-2009, 02:23 PM   #22
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First of all, I think everyone is jumping at shadows. No offense intended. Why? Because TSL despite it's cut content is the true progenitor of TOR.

As I've said before, the default format of Star Wars has been dashing hero overcomes great odds to save the love interest, destroy the deus ex machina, and defeat the evil overlord. KOTOR was that format, but it was done rather well and with Jolee Bindo and the Sith Academy of Korriban we had a look beyond the confines of LS vs. DS.

Then along comes Obsidian and TSL, the very first personal epic in a Star Wars context. The game was not about the quest, it was about you/the Exile and how you/she/he deal/deals/dealt with the past, present, and future. This was a monumental change! But due to the structure of the RPG, there is a limit as to how far that can go.

TOR will change everything. The era of overpowered Skywalkers and Secret Apprentices and overarching quests to save the Galaxy from the EVIL SITH for the two hundreth time is over. This is the era of the Star Wars fan, who has always dreamed of holding his/her own custom lightsaber and using the Force to trip Mission Vao, building his/her own story in a full interactive world.

[HERESY]I hope to God that a K3 never happens, not only because of above reasons. A K3 would be completely overboard since TSL closed that section of the canon until TOR. I am part of a total conversion that is building a K3, and it is already hard enough to build such a mod without the storyline being a stretch. I say we let Bioware, which is obviously taking the lessons of TSL to heart, build this MMO and make tons of money from it. Better an MMO with some Clone Wars architecture than a second TFU. No more Skywalkers after Cade, no winy emo Jedi like Anakin, no more random overpowered Force users like Galen. Let the fans take over from here, Lucas.[/HERESY]


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Old 06-15-2009, 03:50 PM   #23
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Having talked to Chris Avellone a few times now, knowing the passion he has for the story he wants to finish, I say let them finish the game series; give them the chance that BOTH parties botched, in a way, the first time around. Have Bioware MAKE the story in TOR work with it-- if money's all they care about, that's fine, just make it worth my money to care, buy, and enjoy both things. I'm sure the writers over at Bioware have a way to talk with Obsidian writers ; ) Let Obsidian know what they plan on doing and they can use it to give us a real Kotor III.

Obsidian can do a third, real single player RPG Kotor III justice and can work with TOR, I feel. They just need to focus. Now, being given the opportunity is something totally different. I sadly don't think Lucasarts will say yes because they feel they can finish the story with TOR; I find that silly-- writers are paid to write well, right? Have them write well enough for both to work.

So, basically: Obsidian SHOULD do a Kotor III based of what TOR gives them, but I doubt highly Lucasarts will let them. We shall see, however; we shall see...


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Old 06-15-2009, 05:23 PM   #24
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People! What happened to The Sith Lords wasn't Obsidian's fault! LucasArts were the ones who rushed the release in time for Christmas of '04, so Obsidian didn't have a choice but to wrap things up in a hurry. They're a very talented company, and judging from the first third of the game, it could have been even better than the first had they been allowed to finish what they were doing.

I would have no problems at all with a third game developed by Obsidian, as long as LucasArts leaves them well enough alone to be creative, other than occasionally jumping in to make sure it doesn't conflict with established Star Wars canon. LucasArts should play the same role in the game's development that the government should play in the economy: very limited overseeing from afar.


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Old 06-15-2009, 06:27 PM   #25
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[HERESY]I hope to God that a K3 never happens, not only because of above reasons. A K3 would be completely overboard since TSL closed that section of the canon until TOR. I am part of a total conversion that is building a K3, and it is already hard enough to build such a mod without the storyline being a stretch. I say we let Bioware, which is obviously taking the lessons of TSL to heart, build this MMO and make tons of money from it. Better an MMO with some Clone Wars architecture than a second TFU. No more Skywalkers after Cade, no winy emo Jedi like Anakin, no more random overpowered Force users like Galen. Let the fans take over from here, Lucas.[/HERESY]





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Originally Posted by Son of Skywalker15
Having talked to Chris Avellone a few times now, knowing the passion he has for the story he wants to finish, I say let them finish the game series; give them the chance that BOTH parties botched, in a way, the first time around. Have Bioware MAKE the story in TOR work with it-- if money's all they care about, that's fine, just make it worth my money to care, buy, and enjoy both things. I'm sure the writers over at Bioware have a way to talk with Obsidian writers ; ) Let Obsidian know what they plan on doing and they can use it to give us a real Kotor III.

Obsidian can do a third, real single player RPG Kotor III justice and can work with TOR, I feel. They just need to focus. Now, being given the opportunity is something totally different. I sadly don't think Lucasarts will say yes because they feel they can finish the story with TOR; I find that silly-- writers are paid to write well, right? Have them write well enough for both to work.
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Originally Posted by Zerimar
I would have no problems at all with a third game developed by Obsidian, as long as LucasArts leaves them well enough alone to be creative, other than occasionally jumping in to make sure it doesn't conflict with established Star Wars canon.
Agree 100%



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:28 PM   #26
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^Too bad Obsidian couldn't make the better of the 2 KOTOR's...it'd be nice to see KOTOR 3...unfortunately...if it's not made by Bioware...it will just be the third one...nothing special really...

Good to hear that someone still wants to make it at least...
I think you put undue emphasis on company that makes it. Remember it was also about timing, as well. LA cut production short. K1 had 36 months whereas K2 only had ~ 1/3rd of that.

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Originally Posted by Te Mirdala Mand'alor View Post
And if they can't get the permission of LucasArts, they could make K3 as a huge mod for K2. It could be accessed via alternate launcher.
Well, I think this has been addressed in the outer regions. What I've actually found is that fans have a hard time accepting anything so bold from other fans. They want such things to be official. Speaking myself as a sucker of canon.

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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I think the answer I got from Tom Nichols at E3 this year gives us the answer.

http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/star...lic-interview/

I hope it happens, but I just don't think it will. If Obsidian had had more time to develop TSL I think it could have been superior to the original.
Well, the best we could hope for regarding TSL is that Obsidian recognizes the work being done to run glitches out of K2 and restore the cut content. And that it is recognized by lucasarts.

Quote:
<snip>
edit:
Yeah, it's too bad that BioWare is pretty much not acknowledging the existence of TSL at all.
It's all a business competition thing. Hell, in the Darth Bane novels there was barely any acknowledgement in them of TSL at all--the author WAS the story writer for K1, Drew Karyshyn after all. Subtle minor details and the only way one could tell is that it uses minor details while it carefully moves around TSL.

I.E. in rule of two Freedon Nadd's tomb was visited and somehow there was some unexplored passageway and area hidden by an illusion cast by sith magics.

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Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
Agreed.

Too bad that they didn't. It remains one of the biggest "what-ifs" in gaming.
I'm sure given enough time someone will think what to do with it so that it can best turn up a profit.
Quote:
I don't think that it's just BioWare, Jeff; it's LA. I think that they want everyone to forget that TSL ever existed, because it was the ultimate result of a failed policy of theirs. It caused LA a considerable amount of embarrassment and they caught a lot of flak over it.
That said to me that LA is slightly more concerned with money.

Suppose it is also a bit of side effects of modern society? It seems people have preconceived expectations: regardless how good any piece actually was, it will always be downplayed, underrated, and disliked for being a darker story. People are too used to this glorious happy friendly all fuzzy warm crap. Too Hollywood instead of more realistic. I know that it is becoming rarer all the time that we actually see such open ended stories requiring a more philisophical outlook and a bit of imagination.

Simply put: nothing in the "good ratings" of popular stuff seems to require people to use value judgments anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cire992 View Post
<snip>

Now, TSL.

TSL was darker than KOTOR. Maybe that's why LA wants it to go away. No more tsl, no more Dark Forces, no more Shadows of any Evil Empires, no... LA bigwigs want cute padawans and cartoony graphics with rainbows, dancing gungans and emo sith lords. E for everyones' kids' autistic friends. You dig it, Lucas and crew? Money.
Pretty much my sentiments. Characters like Han Solo, Dash Rendar, Lando Calrissian, Kyle Katarn, Boba Fett. These characters gave it so much depth and contrast.

Same sort of gripe with capcom and the megaman series. They kept gearing it to the younger audience and rehashing its old news like it was the next big thing. Having grown up with the original series I can say I feel a bit betrayed.

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Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
The biggest problem with TOR is that they have not explained how the Jedi Order was rebuilt after the Jedi Civil War, and more specifically, the First Jedi Purge. It's as if the war was nothing more than a small skirmish, a footnote in history, while as we saw in TSL, the war brought the Republic to near death. That also brings up the question of what happened to the Exile's companions. After all, they were supposed to rebuild the order, and as of now, that has been totally ignored.
I hear ya.

It is canon that HK-47 survives through time and is still around in secret during the times of the separatists and the rise of Vader and The Empire:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HK-47 so at least we know what will become of HK-47...I would not be surprised if he showed up sometime either in the Legacy series at ~130 ABY currently under development in the comics. Or in the next time period.

I would take bets, though, the HK series of droids did not die down so soon. That we'll see plenty of them in TOR.

Quote:
What perplexes me most, is the fact that BioWare has been continuously using Mark Griskey's score for TSL in their media, which seems to negate their retconning of K2. I mean, if they want everyone to overlook TSL, then they should keep mum on the subject entirely.
QFT

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Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Of Hunger
[HERESY]I hope to God that a K3 never happens, not only because of above reasons. A K3 would be completely overboard since TSL closed that section of the canon until TOR. I am part of a total conversion that is building a K3, and it is already hard enough to build such a mod without the storyline being a stretch. I say we let Bioware, which is obviously taking the lessons of TSL to heart, build this MMO and make tons of money from it. Better an MMO with some Clone Wars architecture than a second TFU. No more Skywalkers after Cade, no winy emo Jedi like Anakin, no more random overpowered Force users like Galen. Let the fans take over from here, Lucas.[/HERESY]


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Old 06-15-2009, 06:46 PM   #27
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LucasArts should play the same role in the game's development that the government should play in the economy: very limited overseeing from afar.
I totally agree, but even Obsidian recently has said that they didn't take full advantage of the time they had. Granted, I think Lucasarts should have been more fair with the time, but that's another discussion.

I'm thinking, and hoping, Lucasarts has seen that fans do think an MMO and single player together can work, if done right, and will be smart and finish the Kotor game series and start a whole new chapter with TOR.


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Old 08-19-2009, 01:49 PM   #28
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I am studying TSL now, and it really feel that it brought some balance into the story, the dark side of things is one of the amazing parts of the entire SW epic, it is part of real life and it is very necessarily part of any balanced story arc for the SW universe.

I am curious about this quote from a past post....in this thread....

Quote:
I don't think that it's just BioWare, Jeff; it's LA. I think that they want everyone to forget that TSL ever existed, because it was the ultimate result of a failed policy of theirs. It caused LA a considerable amount of embarrassment and they caught a lot of flak over it.
what was the failed policy? i am trying to understand all of this, and along the way, I remind us that LucasArts has surprised us recently with a return to an older title, with their return to one of the MI games and a new one being released in episodic form, so there could be a new KOTOR , III or otherwise, ...for there are many ways it could be done. I think Obsidian could also do a good job on it. The circumstances of the rushing of release of TSL certainly are complex...and it was a fortunate thing that the lost files remained in the game set, for amazing work has been done by the community to restore it.


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Old 08-19-2009, 02:24 PM   #29
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Honestly, on reflection I think a lot of people blame cut content for their dislike of TSL when what they really dislike is the game's plot itself; the cut content doesn't magically transform TSL into KotOR 1, nor would it have done. With it in place, the game is, however, hugely superior, since it does bring some closure to the stories of most of the companions. I think what a lot of people objected to was that it:

1) wasn't an epic tale of taking on TEH BIG BAD!!!1oneone!11 like KotOR 1;
2) lacked a STUNNING PLOT TWIST;
3) didn't allow you to play as Revan;
4) was a lot less jingoistic than K1.



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Old 08-20-2009, 03:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Darth InSidious View Post
2) lacked a STUNNING PLOT TWIST;
Honestly, so many games try to insert half-hearted plot twists these days, that not having a twist, in itself, is a twist.




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Old 08-20-2009, 04:18 PM   #31
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Honestly, so many games try to insert half-hearted plot twists these days, that not having a twist, in itself, is a twist.
Oh, absolutely. Which is why I love Kreia's line about it so much:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreia
Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.


Although that said, I thought ME's lack of one didn't help it at all.



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Old 08-19-2009, 03:10 PM   #32
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Those are very interesting points Darth, thanks for them.


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Old 08-19-2009, 11:29 PM   #33
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I agree - it's hard not to be disappointed in TSL after you fall in love with the story and main characters in K1, and expect the sequel to continue that same story. However, in and of itself, TSL is the 2nd best video game I've ever played. It's just not the sequel I (and most people) expected.


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Old 08-20-2009, 12:49 AM   #34
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I liked TSL even though it did not have the amount of finished stuff that KOTOR1 did. I hate the fact that Obsidian didn't get enough time to finish it. I hate that this happens with a lot of the newer games, they always have a set release date and not enough time to let the developers explore with their creativity.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:36 AM   #35
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@Darth InSidious I would agree with point 2 only. Lack of stunning plot twist is the biggest flaw of KotOR 2. As for the other points... Well the gaming industry is dividing into "Mature Gamer" piece and "Kid with console/PC" piece. Star Wars was always supposed to be E or T rated (in my country 12+). I think that TSL was too mature for kids of that age (they didn't understand its story) and next games' story would be more suitable for them - making them shiny, rainbows and pink unicorns instead of dark like in TSL.


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Old 08-20-2009, 03:55 PM   #36
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I would agree with point 2 only. Lack of stunning plot twist is the biggest flaw of KotOR 2. As for the other points... Well the gaming industry is dividing into "Mature Gamer" piece and "Kid with console/PC" piece. Star Wars was always supposed to be E or T rated (in my country 12+). I think that TSL was too mature for kids of that age (they didn't understand its story) and next games' story would be more suitable for them - making them shiny, rainbows and pink unicorns instead of dark like in TSL.
I've introduced my 8-year-old nephew to K2, after K1, of course. He loved K1, mind you, but he enamored. Now, mind you, he is most likely more intelligent than his other peers, regardless of playing K2, but he's still a kid at heart, and for him to enjoy and understand the story (Well, at least that's from my observations) that's as "mature" as that, it's quite an impressive feat for something so deep.

It goes to show you that Star Wars does not have to be a watered-down ANH-clone for the ageless masses to enjoy it; Star Wars can be as deep and intricate as any other university-level literature.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:00 AM   #37
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Okay, I just read through this thread, and I have one question.

Why are y'all saying that Bioware is ignoring TSL? TOR is based on the True Sith, who were introduced in TSL! Sure, they haven't mentioned the Exile, but think of it this way--if you were living in the Star Wars galaxy, you would've heard of Revan, because Revan almost destroyed the Republic. No one in the Star Wars galaxy has heard of or even cares about the Exile. It only makes sense to have a lot more references to Revan than to the Exile. I'm sure there'll be a few references to her later in development.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:19 AM   #38
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if you were living in the Star Wars galaxy, you would've heard of Revan, because Revan almost destroyed the Republic. No one in the Star Wars galaxy has heard of or even cares about the Exile. It only makes sense to have a lot more references to Revan than to the Exile.
Of course Revan is an icon and Great Hero of the Republic. But Exile should also be well known. She was the Last of the Jedi after Jedi Civil War (even though through the game there are other Jedi she ends up being the last one) and the one who rebuilt the Jedi Order. Not mentioning the Exile in TOR would be like not mentioning Skywalker in Legacy Era (OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit ).


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Old 08-20-2009, 11:16 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Wookiee Rrudolf View Post
Of course Revan is an icon and Great Hero of the Republic. But Exile should also be well known. She was the Last of the Jedi after Jedi Civil War (even though through the game there are other Jedi she ends up being the last one) and the one who rebuilt the Jedi Order. Not mentioning the Exile in TOR would be like not mentioning Skywalker in Legacy Era (OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit ).
I never said there wouldn't be any referances to her, just not as many. They'll appear as the game develops. The Exile wouldn't be as well known as, say, Atton, because she went off to the Unknown regions immediately after Malachor blew up. Atton and the other companion Jedi went back and rebuilt the Order, not the Exile.

@Darth Insidious--As far as the stunning plot twist...well, I saw it coming about half-way through my first conversation with Carth (in the apartment on Taris). Never seemed too spectacular to me.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:34 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Wookiee Rrudolf View Post
Of course Revan is an icon and Great Hero of the Republic. But Exile should also be well known. She was the Last of the Jedi after Jedi Civil War (even though through the game there are other Jedi she ends up being the last one) and the one who rebuilt the Jedi Order. Not mentioning the Exile in TOR would be like not mentioning Skywalker in Legacy Era (OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit ).
But you also have to remember - the name you gave the Exile is the Exile's real name - as we saw in K1, the name you gave Revan wasn't Revan's real name.

Sure, you could continue to refer to the Exile as the Exile, but is a rather generic title. And I don't think anyone wants the Exile to have an official name, either.
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