lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar
View Poll Results: Will there be a World War Three?
Yes, within the next 50 years 8 13.33%
Yes, within the next 100 years 4 6.67%
Maybe. It's a possibility, that's for sure. 24 40.00%
Unlikely. Most of the world powers have nuclear weapons. 14 23.33%
No. Definitely not. 3 5.00%
Yoda (says: Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate...) 7 11.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Will There Be a WW III?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 06-12-2010, 11:52 PM   #1
Tysyacha
One of Thousands
 
Tysyacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwall/The Free Marches
Posts: 3,181
Current Game: Dragon Age II
Forum Veteran Roleplayer Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Will There Be a WW III?

I chose the third option. I'm not ruling it out completely, because the world is in quite a state today--especially with the policy of "pre-emptive war" having been enforced...
Tysyacha is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 12:01 AM   #2
JediAthos
Senior Member
 
JediAthos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,438
Current Game: Defiance
Forum Veteran Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
There's enough instability in the world today that like you Tysy I wouldn't discount it entirely. I certainly hope not, but between Kim Jong Il, that psycho in Iran, and Hugo Chavez there's enough crazy out there that ya just never know.


"You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

JediAthos is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 12:20 AM   #3
Fredi
El Guapo
 
Fredi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Germn,PR
Posts: 1,305
It is possible, we haven't learn to live in peace and as long as the desire for power exist there shall always be conflicts.



"Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
Fredi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 12:37 AM   #4
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Never underestimate/bet against man's penchant for miscalculation.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 12:44 AM   #5
Q
The one who knocks
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ABQ
Posts: 6,643
Current Game: Mowing down neos with my M60
LF Jester Forum Veteran Helpful! 
^Or just plain stupidity.

I'm not sure, but, in my opinion, a modern-day, multinational conflict on the scale of WWII wouldn't last too long before one of the nations on the losing side started threatening to use nukes. The war would probably end rather quickly after that; either in negotiation or annihilation.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
Q is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 02:47 AM   #6
urluckyday
Up all night to get lucky
 
urluckyday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Beautiful USA
Posts: 2,760
Current Game: Red Orchestra 2
10 year veteran! Forum Veteran 
Always a possibility...

As long as there are people stupid enough not to learn from their own or their predecessor's mistakes...wars will be prevalent. It's an unfortunate fact...but it's the way things are. I would consider a "world war" as any conflict that involves 2 or more world powers...nukes or not.

IF there is a world war at some point...I doubt we see it within the next 50 years. After that...who knows.

I really find that most of this fear that is mustered up between nations like Iran, N. Korea, etc. comes from the news and media corporations.

I feel like everyone fears that a war between China and the U.S. is in the future for both countries, but I don't understand it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediAthos View Post
There's enough instability in the world today that like you Tysy I wouldn't discount it entirely. I certainly hope not, but between Kim Jong Il, that psycho in Iran, and Hugo Chavez there's enough crazy out there that ya just never know.
Agreed with the first 2...but Hugo Chavez? He's just got a big mouth and likes the attention. I wish "Jason Bourne" would go in there and take him out...not so much for political gain...just so I wouldn't have to hear about his asinine rants all of the time. Maybe within the next couple decades and he's out of his marginal amount of oil to use as leverage...he'll learn to shut up.



If I die today, I'm happy how my life turned out

Last edited by mimartin; 06-13-2010 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Double post
urluckyday is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 06:13 AM   #7
Pho3nix
#rekt
 
Pho3nix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,372
Forum Veteran 
Probably, yes, It's human nature.

Pho3nix is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 08:56 AM   #8
Tysyacha
One of Thousands
 
Tysyacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwall/The Free Marches
Posts: 3,181
Current Game: Dragon Age II
Forum Veteran Roleplayer Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there will be a World War III.

1. Who will be fighting against whom? (The "War on Terror" doesn't count...)
2. When will this war take place, approximately? The 2000's or the 2100's?
3. What will be the major issues involved in WWIII? Why do we go to war?
4. What will be the final outcome?

I have to think a little harder about my speculations, so I'll be back later.
Tysyacha is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 09:04 AM   #9
JediAthos
Senior Member
 
JediAthos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,438
Current Game: Defiance
Forum Veteran Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Could end up being over oil a la Fallout as the world's oil resources begin to dwindle. I'm not sure what kind of timetable the so-called experts have on that, but I could see it being a cause.

I could also see a major act of aggression by a hostile nation as the cause as well. An example of that being N. Korea making an overt attack on the south in which case the U.S. would be obligated to respond due to agreements we have with S. Korea.

I had have to do so some serious brainstorming to layout the various scenarios but those are some possible examples. Final outcomes and what not are a bit harder to determine...maybe I'll have to come back to this a bit later


"You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

JediAthos is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 09:42 AM   #10
Mandalore The Shadow
The Writing Writer
 
Mandalore The Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Desert
Posts: 286
Current Game: KotOR II
Yeah and soon my vote is initial conflict between us (America) and China... or North Korea the possibilities are endless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediAthos View Post
I could also see a major act of aggression by a hostile nation as the cause as well. An example of that being N. Korea making an overt attack on they south in which case the U.S. would be obligated to respond due to agreements we have with S. Korea.
Yay NATO


My Mods
You needn't die happy when your time comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived
your life from the beginning to the end and ka is always served.

― Stephen King, The Dark Tower
Mandalore The Shadow is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 11:06 AM   #11
jonathan7
Exiled Jedi...
 
jonathan7's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 3,676
Contest winner - Modding LFN Staff Member Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandalore The Shadow View Post
Yeah and soon my vote is initial conflict between us (America) and China... or North Korea the possibilities are endless.
I doubt it, America and China are far too financially dependant on one another it would take something truly catastrophic to cause war between the two. I would very much doubt that China would come militarily to North Korea's aid if they did something stupid enough to cause America to 'go to war' with North Korea; although call my a cynic, but I think China and America like having North and South Korea, as its the most highly militarised border in the world, meaning both countries can sell weapons to the regime's they support.

Something many people seem to have forgotten, is the most valuable resource is fresh water, which in certain parts of the world is harder and harder to obtain, I think future wars could break out over who controls certain water sources.



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 12:30 PM   #12
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Great, a discussion with teeth about my favorite study subject!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Never underestimate/bet against man's penchant for miscalculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
^Or just plain stupidity.

I'm not sure, but, in my opinion, a modern-day, multinational conflict on the scale of WWII wouldn't last too long before one of the nations on the losing side started threatening to use nukes. The war would probably end rather quickly after that; either in negotiation or annihilation.
If history is any example, I wouldn't agree we would have gone through the 65 years since the last World War and now without something a lot nastier turning up. The main reason we didn't, oddly enough, was everyone's worry that it could go nuclear so easily. Between WWII and Korea, the US Air Force's idea was to simply nuke them into the stone age, a bit much to fight one little country in 1950.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediAthos View Post
There's enough instability in the world today that like you Tysy I wouldn't discount it entirely. I certainly hope not, but between Kim Jong Il, that psycho in Iran, and Hugo Chavez there's enough crazy out there that ya just never know.
The biggest danger of a Nuclear war, rather than a World War is instability at the top. There is an old miltary axiom that when the final 'we may go to war, be ready to defend yourself' order goes out is that you have just placed the peace in the hands of the least stable officers you have in command on both sides.

With nukes this is heightened. Every WWIII scenario that goes nuclear starts with two nuclear powers duking it out. On one side, you have a fear of losing, on the other you have the 'use it or lose it' mentality. A missile still in it's silo when the war ends is not considered conservation, it's something that 'might' have swung the tide to your side.

But countries with nuclear weapons that also have unstable leaders makes it that much worse. It's one thing to have two relatively stable leaders at war, it's another when one of them has a limted grasp on reality. The leader of Iran sounds like a Fundamentalist Christian who believes that 'God' will let him strike, but stop the enemy from striking back. Kim is a wannabe movie director who, like any director believes he can shout cut, and reshoot the scene to his liking. Sort of like the General in charge of the Gaza city El Arish when the Jew flanked him in 1967. He went to the Jewish General, told him he had cheated, and had to go back and start all over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysyacha View Post
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there will be a World War III.

1. Who will be fighting against whom? (The "War on Terror" doesn't count...)
2. When will this war take place, approximately? The 2000's or the 2100's?
3. What will be the major issues involved in WWIII? Why do we go to war?
4. What will be the final outcome?

I have to think a little harder about my speculations, so I'll be back later.
If a new war comes out, I do not think it will be a World War because the world is not as badly polarized unless you take the third world versus the first.

The flash points are far too many to mention. In 1990, a man Named James Dunnigan wrote a book using the US as the template for why we would go to war again. One of them, the one most considered unlikely was 'A Persian Gulf State attacking another'. Or as we remember now, the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandalore The Shadow View Post
Yeah and soon my vote is initial conflict between us (America) and China... or North Korea the possibilities are endless.

Yay NATO
Actually, if it's in the Pacific, it would be SEATO. But remember that both world wars were caused by treaty alliances that forced others to join in. Russia the Brits and France all had alliances, but France also had one Serbia, for example. Both France and England had alliances with Poland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
I doubt it, America and China are far too financially dependant on one another it would take something truly catastrophic to cause war between the two. I would very much doubt that China would come militarily to North Korea's aid if they did something stupid enough to cause America to 'go to war' with North Korea; although call my a cynic, but I think China and America like having North and South Korea, as its the most highly militarised border in the world, meaning both countries can sell weapons to the regime's they support.

Something many people seem to have forgotten, is the most valuable resource is fresh water, which in certain parts of the world is harder and harder to obtain, I think future wars could break out over who controls certain water sources.
Part of the Oslo Accords signed by the Israelis and the Palestinians addressed this immediately. Also, as Tom Clancy pointed out, some wars are started between trading partners. the Franco Prussian War had France and Germany doing the most trading. Japan's largest supplier of 90% of their war materials was the US. The old jokes about them hitting us with scrap iron we sold them.

So who are the most likely? I do not see a world war, as I said, there is not enough polarization among the more technologically advanced nations. Europe is sick of full scale wars, the Russians economy would collapse if they tried to prosecute a full scale one, and china's or ours would not support one lasting more than a few months. Picture both sides spending a billion dollars a day each on just supplying the troops would drain the coffers like a collander.

I can foresee a lot of small wars, and hopefully they will not go nuclear. Only a major war between fully capable nations would lead to serious nuclear war; NATO versus Russia, SEATO versus China, China versus Russia, that kind of thing. Countries like Iran Korea and Israel in the mix does not make it better, because it would go full all out nuclear between them, a minor thing on a global scale, though catastrophic on the theater level.

If the UN had some real teeth instead of being an oversized debating society, we could avoid it by disarming everyone. In fact President Truman called on the Un to do ust that in 1947, when the US had fewer nukes that Iran North Korea and Israel combined.

The biggest problem is now there are far fewer nukes than there were in say 1986. That brings up a more worrisome problem.

You see, we balanced on the knife blade through the last three decades of the 20th century because neither side could guarantee having anything to come home to when the missiles flew. That was called mutually assured destruction. But that is no longer the case. If every nuclear arsenal were fired right this second, only about a third to half of the warheads laying around in 1989 would be fired, and the planet would survive, but the world wide economy would not.

To quote Ian Malcom from Jurassic park when someone spouted the 'save the planet' line, we don't need to worry about the planet, we need to worry that we would change it enough that we as a race would die.

Mt St Helens released almost 40% as much energy as all the weapons needed to cause nuclear winter, Tamboa and Krakatoa each released more energy than every nuke ever envisioned.

So World War, no. Small sometimes nasty evern nuclear wars? I could bet on one of those with nukes in the next geeration.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 06-13-2010 at 12:38 PM.
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 11:08 AM   #13
Ping
Elementary.
 
Ping's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 785
Roleplayer 
I don't think there could be a war today that would be big enough to cause World War 3, but I won't count it out. I think worse case scenario, there's a war between China, Russia, U.S.A., Iran, and North Korea. Best case scenario, the Korean War simply flares up again, in the scenario that war is imminent.


"There is no such thing as coincidence, only inevitability" - xxxHoLiC

"Justice? But I don't serve justice, Watson, I serve the truth." - Sherlock Holmes
Ping is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2010, 01:22 PM   #14
purifier
Forumite
 
purifier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DisneyLand
Posts: 721
LF Jester 
Anything is possible, but nothing can be writtten in stone until after the fact. Or for that matter, whether anybody is left alive to write it in stone.


SITH HAPPENS
purifier is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-14-2010, 07:39 PM   #15
Tysyacha
One of Thousands
 
Tysyacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwall/The Free Marches
Posts: 3,181
Current Game: Dragon Age II
Forum Veteran Roleplayer Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Here's a theory:

What if China actually gets sick of lending us money that it knows we can't repay? AND, what if China wants it repaid, in land and/or blood if necessary?
Tysyacha is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-14-2010, 10:29 PM   #16
urluckyday
Up all night to get lucky
 
urluckyday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Beautiful USA
Posts: 2,760
Current Game: Red Orchestra 2
10 year veteran! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysyacha View Post
Here's a theory:

What if China actually gets sick of lending us money that it knows we can't repay? AND, what if China wants it repaid, in land and/or blood if necessary?
lol. so they spend billions/trillions to fight the most technologically advanced military in the world...just so they can collect on some slowly-repaid loans?

Highly doubtful.



If I die today, I'm happy how my life turned out
urluckyday is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-14-2010, 10:31 PM   #17
Tysyacha
One of Thousands
 
Tysyacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwall/The Free Marches
Posts: 3,181
Current Game: Dragon Age II
Forum Veteran Roleplayer Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Touche. *humbly concedes point*

Whom do you think poses the most danger to us today (I mean, what country)?
Tysyacha is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-14-2010, 11:13 PM   #18
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysyacha View Post
Touche. *humbly concedes point*

Whom do you think poses the most danger to us today (I mean, what country)?

Our biggest worry right now isn't a specific nation, it is someone that will goad others into attacking, or goad us into a preemptive strike that is unnecessary.

A perfect example is the book The Sum of all Fears by Tom Clancy. A terrorist organization sets off a nuke, which everone assumes must have been something the Russians slipped in. The advisor to the President assumes it is an attack on the President himself, meaning it is literally war. The US goes to Defcon 2, and the Russians respond.

As it is, 99% of the military might of the world (Not counting troops) is held by the First World, and over 75% is American. The American nation will collapse as did the Romans, unwilling to defend itself, depending on allies who stay only until they get a better deal.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-15-2010, 02:38 PM   #19
Xarwarz
Forumite
 
Xarwarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 622
Veteran Modder 
If the world makes it past 2012 or 2016 yea nuclear fallout think of the fallout game but real life


USE MY MOD IN ANY MOD
TSL-O.T.E.--MODELS ON MOD DB......
Show spoiler

OTHER
Show spoiler
Xarwarz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-15-2010, 03:14 PM   #20
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
I took a Jedi stance on this but I am not a fool enough to not see that war is a distinct possibility between nations. I like to think that we have done good so far in regards to not engaging in a war on a scale as WWI and WWII. However mach makes a good point using Clancey's novel to make a point about how we could be goaded into a fight that is unneccessary. That is a reality should something happen.

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-15-2010, 06:52 PM   #21
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12 View Post
However mach makes a good point using Clancey's novel to make a point about how we could be goaded into a fight that is unneccessary. That is a reality should something happen.
The thing to remember about the book is that the only thing that saved us was having someone inside the loop but unwilling to play the game. He went on to write the Bear and Dragon where Russia and China go to a war that only failed in being nuclear because the one missile fired is shot down over Washington.

As for that, the Standard, the Navy's anti missile missile has this capability, as does the Patriot. As I said before, the biggest problem is that with the now limited number of Nukes, a limited nuclear war becomes a distinct possibility.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-15-2010, 08:09 PM   #22
e-varmint
Vapid Pomposticator
 
e-varmint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Abandoned Subway Car
Posts: 760
Current Game: Dragon Age
Helpful! 
The war's going to start between a primarily Muslim Europe and a primarily Catholic America. When? Don't know. I'm not that familiar with the current growth projections of the respective religions. Who's going to start it? Don't know that either. It will definately start at sea, though.
e-varmint is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-15-2010, 08:16 PM   #23
Tysyacha
One of Thousands
 
Tysyacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwall/The Free Marches
Posts: 3,181
Current Game: Dragon Age II
Forum Veteran Roleplayer Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
I would bet more on a primarily Muslim Asia/Mideast. Europe, to me, seems either mostly Christian (Catholic/Lutheran) or secular. I also think that, should WW III break out, some countries in Europe would be on the side of the United States, such as Great Britain.
Tysyacha is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-15-2010, 09:52 PM   #24
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysyacha View Post
I would bet more on a primarily Muslim Asia/Mideast. Europe, to me, seems either mostly Christian (Catholic/Lutheran) or secular. I also think that, should WW III break out, some countries in Europe would be on the side of the United States, such as Great Britain.
Depending on when such a conflict were to take place, I'd be less sure of that. Demographically, Britain will likely become islamicized w/in a few generations. Europe itself at least as quickly or faster. Even fools like Ghadafi have pointed this out. Isalm will take Europe via birthrate unless things change. Why destroy what you're likely to inherit. It's not entirely impossible for trading partners to become enemies. Japan and the US in the early-mid 20th century. Thus I don't write off the possiblity of a Sino-US conflict down the road.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-15-2010, 08:21 PM   #25
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
Posts: 4,255
Current Game: Soul Calibur 5
If and when a war does happen in our current situation (presumably if nothing much has changed from the status quo), it'll be because one of our allies or at least someone of power feels they've been alienated or are being unfairly exploited/taken advantage of. Or some ambitious faction is trying to usurp control over people.

And yes, look throughout history, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of all wars inevitably came down to/have been about a fight over resources, with a close second reason being about power. This is almost always what war has been about.

What's different now is that everything is at a standstill with tension in the air. Since everything is now stacked up, there are no sudden surprise upsets that can really happen. It'll be a gradual whittling away at the status quo until something gives way.

A third major reason, so distant yet so close is survival. Prosperity. Which implies a post-disaster situation.

I do think that in light of all that is going on, something else is going to happen. Natural disasters. Could be something waiting at an astronomical or cosmic level to strike us on Earth, or maybe it's something long overdue by hundreds of years from Earth itself like the "ring of fire". What is that? Talk to a geologist, it might scare the hell out of you. Or any number of other things that are classified as natural disaster. A post disaster struggle for survival and prosperity would be a plausible distinct possibility given these circumstances. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a bombardment from nature, it can be much subtler like drought and famine.

As-is from an economical point of view: Fixed land (arguably shrinking to some), and a growing population equals inevitable starvation. Famine happened long before technology got to be anywhere near as advanced as it is today. Imagine how much more nasty it'll be now.

I'm no green party activist, but even for a conservative leaning guy I have grown up largely around nature and lived in it. There is an appreciation there that I have of it. Call me a conservationist in this aspect. I can tell you now that another factor being damaged tainted uninhabitable land (for whatever reason) is something to indeed consider. I'm just telling things like I see them. There is also no completely safe area on earth from some form of natural disaster.

So if it is not any nation(s) causing ruckus, it'll be nature lashing out, then the subsequent vacuums of power amid devastation, and the vies for that power on top of everything else going on.


"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 10:40 AM   #26
ChAiNz.2da
Leave Everything to Me!
 
ChAiNz.2da's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tennessee (USA)
Posts: 6,848
Considering during the y2k scare, people were building bunkers and stashing weapons, all for a clock malfunction.. then yeah, I'm thinking between mankind's lost marbles and scruples.. a war isn't discountable.

Trouble is, the weapons are far nastier now, than during WWII.
Wouldn't surprise me if it went nuclear or biological, despite the "rules" of war (laughable) barring them. Rules only work when everyone plays by them.

All I know is.. if it happens, I'm buying a German shepherd and naming him "Dogmeat"


"Eagles May Soar, But Weasels Don't Get Sucked Into Jet Engines"


| Mods (FF) (DS) | Folding | SWK.com | FB: (LF) (Me) | Steam | The Herd |
ChAiNz.2da is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 11:01 AM   #27
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
As we count the years and the generation that fought WWII pass on, then my concern for another world war go up. As long as we were reminded of the human toll WWII cost us I was not overly concern about it happening again. However, being desensitized by images of war in different media makes old photos and newsreels of the human cost of WWII and WWI less of a deterrent. So sooner or later someone will think they can actually win a war and it will happen again.

Personally I believe it will happen sooner rather than later, diplomatic and signs of respect are already viewed as being weak by a portion of the population and media in the United States.


mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 02:49 PM   #28
Astor
It's Thornhill!
 
Astor's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,632
Current Game: The Old Republic
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran Helpful! 
While i'm certain there will inevitably be a Third World War, I hope i'm dead and buried before it ever happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
As we count the years and the generation that fought WWII pass on, then my concern for another world war go up. As long as we were reminded of the human toll WWII cost us I was not overly concern about it happening again. However, being desensitized by images of war in different media makes old photos and newsreels of the human cost of WWII and WWI less of a deterrent. So sooner or later someone will think they can actually win a war and it will happen again.
I agree with pretty much all of this, but i'd add that education isn't up to much now - it largely seems to ignore the human cost of the war, and focuses more on how it started or ended, which is all well and good, but it shouldn't ignore what those who fought those conflicts went through and saw.

Although I do think that there are many potent images from the Second World War, which still have the power to move -
Show spoiler


There are no guns, no bodies, just distraught Parisians in tears as an occupying force stages a triumphal march through their home.

I doubt that any third world war would be fought in quite the same manner, but i've always thought that picture served to remind me that the mistakes of the past should not be made again.

Quote:
Personally I believe it will happen sooner rather than later, diplomatic and signs of respect are already viewed as being weak by a portion of the population and media in the United States.
Obama bowed to the Japs! Fire up the Memphis Belle!






Astor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 05:03 PM   #29
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da View Post
Considering during the y2k scare, people were building bunkers and stashing weapons, all for a clock malfunction.. then yeah, I'm thinking between mankind's lost marbles and scruples.. a war isn't discountable.

Trouble is, the weapons are far nastier now, than during WWII.
Wouldn't surprise me if it went nuclear or biological, despite the "rules" of war (laughable) barring them. Rules only work when everyone plays by them.

All I know is.. if it happens, I'm buying a German shepherd and naming him "Dogmeat"
Good points. The people complain about actions by Nations who never bothered to accept or as in the case of Japan before WWII, 'set aside' the rules that were supposed to limit the carnage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
As we count the years and the generation that fought WWII pass on, then my concern for another world war go up. As long as we were reminded of the human toll WWII cost us I was not overly concern about it happening again. However, being desensitized by images of war in different media makes old photos and newsreels of the human cost of WWII and WWI less of a deterrent. So sooner or later someone will think they can actually win a war and it will happen again.

Personally I believe it will happen sooner rather than later, diplomatic and signs of respect are already viewed as being weak by a portion of the population and media in the United States.
When it comes to this, the biggest enemy the US has in any future war, ever since Vietnam for that matter, is our own homegrown peacniks. The people who extoll the struggle of our enemies, while dragging every bit of dity secrets our nation might want to keep. Who protest Israeli retaliation for attacks and at the same time ignore the attacks that kill not soldiers but civilians whose only crime is living in that nation. Think of all the 'Americans murdered X number of civilians' but ignores the enemy doing the same. In fact in the web site that lists all the collateral damage done during the gulf war every death, whether killed by American arms or the terrorists is blamedon us!

My favorite comment on this was some idiot that stated the Non proliferation treaty was created so the 'oppressed' couldn't get the same weapons to fight back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astor View Post
While i'm certain there will inevitably be a Third World War, I hope i'm dead and buried before it ever happens.



I agree with pretty much all of this, but i'd add that education isn't up to much now - it largely seems to ignore the human cost of the war, and focuses more on how it started or ended, which is all well and good, but it shouldn't ignore what those who fought those conflicts went through and saw.

Although I do think that there are many potent images from the Second World War, which still have the power to move -
Show spoiler


There are no guns, no bodies, just distraught Parisians in tears as an occupying force stages a triumphal march through their home.

I doubt that any third world war would be fought in quite the same manner, but i've always thought that picture served to remind me that the mistakes of the past should not be made again.



Obama bowed to the Japs! Fire up the Memphis Belle!
Worse yet we have the president and his family apologizing because a terrorist organization (WHich has not set their avowed goals regardless) that also happens to be the government of their state are whining that the US wil not give them billions in aid to 'defend themselves'.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 05:22 PM   #30
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli View Post
When it comes to this, the biggest enemy the US has in any future war, ever since Vietnam for that matter, is our own homegrown peacniks.
Yea, if them darn peacenik ever get the bomb we all will be in real trouble.


mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 05:31 PM   #31
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
The enemy w/in can often be more effective than the enemy outside the gates. I'd say the self-proclaimed "peacenik" is usually a deluded fool that tries to force America to fight w/one or both arms behind its back. Hard to maintain any war effort when these people try to erode public support and portray America as the bad guy. You can argue till your blue in the face about the legality/righteousness of a war, but when the gauntlet is thrown, you fight to win. FTR, no one here is or appears to be saying that people should declare war willy-nilly (ie frivolously and/or frequently).


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 05:47 PM   #32
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
My sarcasm had more to do with my original post having NOTHING to do with peaceniks (whatever that is). So, I apologize for my part in moving the thread off topic. I will go stand in the corner for an hour.

Please get back on topic which is World War.


mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 06:06 PM   #33
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
In the spirit of mimartin's reminder (and while he stands in the corner for the next 45 mins or so ), WHAT do people think will be the likely cause(s) of a 3rd WW? Dwindling resources? A rapidly escalated smaller conflict? Religion? And where do you think it's most likely to start? Also, who do you see as being the major adversaries (ie w/America and against)?


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #34
Ping
Elementary.
 
Ping's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 785
Roleplayer 
I believe either less resources or religion would be the main cause. I'm not ruling out the escalation of a small conflict, but nations seem to be more all talk nowadays, so I have my doubts there's going to be an escalation of a minor war.

I think resources could be a cause since fossil fuels are running out, and nobody seems to care about finding alternate fuel to sustain us. Religion could also be a cause, since, let's be honest here, religion is just out of control now with terrorists and hate groups, and I hate to say it, but it's probably going to have some really bad long term effects.


"There is no such thing as coincidence, only inevitability" - xxxHoLiC

"Justice? But I don't serve justice, Watson, I serve the truth." - Sherlock Holmes
Ping is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 07:14 PM   #35
Tysyacha
One of Thousands
 
Tysyacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwall/The Free Marches
Posts: 3,181
Current Game: Dragon Age II
Forum Veteran Roleplayer Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Quote:
In the spirit of mimartin's reminder (and while he stands in the corner for the next 45 mins or so), WHAT do people think will be the likely cause(s) of a 3rd WW? Dwindling resources? A rapidly escalated smaller conflict? Religion? And where do you think it's most likely to start? Also, who do you see as being the major adversaries (ie w/America and against)?
Tysyacha's Speculations:

CAUSE OF WWIII: Dwindling resources (OIL, water, food, strategic points)
MOST LIKELY TO START IN: The Middle East and Asia (IRAN, Iraq, N. Korea)
ON AMERICA'S SIDE: Great Britain, France, Germany, and (oddly) Russia
AGAINST AMERICA: Iran, Iraq, Syria, N. Korea, other Asian Muslim countries
WINNER: US (I hope)
Tysyacha is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2010, 11:45 PM   #36
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
WHAT do people think will be the likely cause(s) of a 3rd WW?
Power and Im not talking about natural resources. Im speaking of power over fellow man. Either someone wants power or someone feels that their power is being taken from them. That combined with the utter stupidity that there are actually winners in a World War make for a dangerous situation.

It could be fought in the name of natural resources or religion, but the real motive will be someone wanting to force their agenda on another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Also, who do you see as being the major adversaries (ie w/America and against)?
No clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysyacha View Post
WINNER:
None Everyone loses.


mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-19-2010, 12:26 AM   #37
Darth333
Administraterror
 
Darth333's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In my secret dungeon...
Posts: 8,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysyacha View Post
Tysyacha's Speculations:

CAUSE OF WWIII: Dwindling resources (OIL, water, food, strategic points)
MOST LIKELY TO START IN: The Middle East and Asia (IRAN, Iraq, N. Korea)
ON AMERICA'S SIDE: Great Britain, France, Germany, and (oddly) Russia
AGAINST AMERICA: Iran, Iraq, Syria, N. Korea, other Asian Muslim countries
WINNER: US (I hope)
Err... I am not answering the initial thread's question for personal reasons but look at your above statement: "Dwindling resources (OIL, water, food, strategic points)"...

Do you realize that these resources target different regions of the world and different primary interests? I can hardly see many of the countries listed sharing the same interest in each of the above mentioned areas (and America = more than one country, often with different POVs and interests ).
Darth333 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-21-2010, 06:59 PM   #38
Arcesious
Trolololololololololololo
 
Arcesious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NE
Posts: 1,876
Current Game: Mass Effect
Even if there was a world war 3 and it went nuclear, I doubt many nuclear missiles would be fired in such a situation. Maybe half a dozen to a dozen nukes fired, tops, before everyone decides they've had enough. And that isn't going to destroy the entire world. Maybe a couple major cities pulverized, but the world would easily rebuild from the damage within a few decades.

With all the experience and history the world has with wars, I bet that such a war would only last a few days before everyone nearly unanimously decided that a third world war was the stupidest thing anyone had ever done.


Please feed the trolls. XD
Arcesious is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-28-2010, 04:09 AM   #39
Roller123
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 50
Clashes between Russia and China are not unheard of. See Sino-Soviet border conflict. Recently Russia ceded some territory to China as well. Lots of chinese are working&living in that general area, which is far closer to Beijing than to Moscow. Not to speak about difference in population amount.. Siberia 40m and sinking, China 1400m and raising.

The US needs a source of cheap products, G2 was suggested by the US, not China. China soon will have a typical dilemma, as it gets richer, so would like the workers, but as cheap labor is what makes China richer, its either one or another. Or landgrab. Now i dont think Chinese have the spirit to do that alone, but in alliance with USA they could. That too is not unheard of.

Europe.. its a total mess, already actually. One thing is sure, w/o US money all those "small independent democracies" aka puppet states immediately go broke and back under Russian influence. That or they go into a state of anarchy like its happening with Kyrgyzstan right now. Either way Russia will not face a 2 front war.

As for the Arab thread i think its overrated because they are not integrated into world's economy. USA invaded Iraq, Afghanistan. Israel invaded Libya or something. Nothing happened. Noone really cares, or does anything other then talk. At a slight sight of danger they are glassed and life goes on.

again this assumes that the world goes broke first, war second heh.


God, Chome's spellcheck is awful and i havent slept the night..
Roller123 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-28-2010, 04:08 PM   #40
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
Posts: 4,255
Current Game: Soul Calibur 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roller123 View Post
Clashes between Russia and China are not unheard of. See Sino-Soviet border conflict. Recently Russia ceded some territory to China as well. Lots of chinese are working&living in that general area, which is far closer to Beijing than to Moscow. Not to speak about difference in population amount.. Siberia 40m and sinking, China 1400m and raising.
Hm. Thanks, I will.

Quote:
The US needs a source of cheap products, G2 was suggested by the US, not China. China soon will have a typical dilemma, as it gets richer, so would like the workers, but as cheap labor is what makes China richer, its either one or another. Or landgrab. Now i dont think Chinese have the spirit to do that alone, but in alliance with USA they could. That too is not unheard of.
I think I'm liking this--one who has a grasp of the practical economics and realities. Yeah, that's what has happened in America by large part.

Now that landgrab is what interests me. Yeah I can see a feud with Russia happening, however I'm not sure that U.S.A. would necessarily support China's doing that. Well, maybe it would if Russia did some things to anger the U.S. but I can't really say I see that happening, tbh. Russia's leaders might not like what the USA stands for, but they're not really interested in a conflict.

It's more advantageous (if only marginally so) for China and Russia to not fight. If China got a wild hair...maybe. Best I can tell, it (China) wants to become the next top economic power in the world and to beat nations that way instead of toe-to-toe war with their northern neighbor.

Perhaps Russia might be taking swipes at others, but really, what makes you think they are any more inclined to take up arms and go to war?

China always looked up to the U.S.A. until recently. Now they want to be the ones with power, and they are also looking to Europe for values and for trade. (Not my words, something said on PBS or somesuch.)
Basically: China is hurting too, I think. And if, as you seem to imply (please do tell me if I am mistaken what you mean), Europe is staggering and getting wishy-washy in its stances, what is to stop China from doing the same as Russia in getting or buying European support?

So far as Europe...why would you think they'd support Russia instead? Britain breaking off with the U.S. is not something I can see happening. *shrugs* So...
Quote:
Europe.. its a total mess, already actually. One thing is sure, w/o US money all those "small independent democracies" aka puppet states immediately go broke and back under Russian influence. That or they go into a state of anarchy like its happening with Kyrgyzstan right now. Either way Russia will not face a 2 front war.
I'm not sure I understand...Yeah it's broke, but the U.S. would keep trying to support it--to its detriment in fact.

"Puppet states"? I wonder what they think about that assessment just because they are small and beholden. By that analogy they would be no less "puppet" under Russia's power. Is that what you call them for expediency sake because they aren't world powers? Just curious.

Anyhoo, that scenario it would have to come down to who'd make the sweetest sounding bribes/payoffs...a competition and feud which I imagine would tear Europe apart.

I don't know, but something tells me that Europe is just not that weak. They'd see what is going on, and ultimately side with whoever had the best ideals. Sure money talks, but so do liberties. Economies wax and wain. *shrug* We'll see.

Could be wrong, but I don't think Europe is so mad at the USA that it's ready to sever its ties...I see where you're going with this, but it frankly isn't that simple. Too many unknowns to be able to tell accurately.

Quote:
As for the Arab thread i think its overrated because they are not integrated into world's economy.
I beg to differ: Oil, and soon possibly dirt cheap manufacturing.

Plus we haven't even gotten into USA's relationships with everyone and trying to be everybody's friend. I.E. India and Pakistan.

Quote:
USA invaded Iraq, Afghanistan. Israel invaded Libya or something. Nothing happened. Noone really cares, or does anything other then talk. At a slight sight of danger they are glassed and life goes on.

again this assumes that the world goes broke first, war second heh.


God, Chome's spellcheck is awful and i havent slept the night..
*shrug* Uhh, I guess so.


"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy

Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 06-28-2010 at 11:49 PM. Reason: clarifying china and Russia
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Kavar's Corner > Will There Be a WW III?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.