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Old 04-01-2013, 10:46 PM   #1
Darth Avlectus
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3D modeling programs. Ill suited for K1 & 2 modeling or no?

ATM I am looking into various programs.


3DSmax is obviously too prohibitive price wise , and I not beein' suggesting ye go out and commit an act of, erhmm, "Arrgh matey!" for it. Heheh. IIRC JCarter426, you were of the opinon it was work of the , being that another autodesk modeling program is superior.

I have been looking around lately at programs and wonder if anyone else here has had experience with them... and possibly hoping one I'm considering may yet be of at least marginally better use tham gmax to a ...project I have been working on off and on.

Currently:

I have iClone3 SE already--came along as part of magix Movie Edit PRO 15. I am aware they are now to version 5. My YT stuff didn't go anywhere so it's just sitting.

3DX. A modeling and animating program. Modestly priced. Seems good so far...

Daz Studio. Cheaper than above but good, supposedly can be had for free if you know when and where to look for a deal package (which implies spending more money on other stuff to go with it).

Poser 7, 8, 9. Seen it on my last trek through Fry's Electronics. May not be the most advanced but it works for some things. By smith micro--Have a couple of their other products, anime studio debut 6 and manga studio debut 4 so bringing up for familiarity sake.


Any of these even remotely useful for remodeling heads in TSL? I have other leisurely aspirations involving 3d, so I'm just wondering. It'd be nice to tackle more projects with fewer programs.

Thanks for the input my fellow denisens of LF.


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Old 04-02-2013, 02:42 AM   #2
DarthParametric
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What you choose to actually model in is irrelevant. All that matters is that you can get the resultant mesh into either Max or GMax so it can be set up and exported using the NWMax script.

I would suggest that if you do not already have any modelling proficiency and are looking to learn, GMax is probably a good place to start. It's a free, albeit crippled, version of Max 4. Although it can't do many things a lot of modern modelling apps can, it still retains the same basic Max workflow and conventions, so it puts you in good stead down the track (Max is the industry standard).

The other main alternative in the free category is Blender. The downside is that it is arguably even more horrible to use than Max, but the upside is a lot of game modding custom content production is centred around it, so there are all sorts of import/export scripts available for various games (like TES and FO3/NV for example). If you aren't angling to pursue a career and modding is just a hobby, Blender might be the more optimal route in the long run.

Regardless of what you model in, if you want animated meshes like heads, you'll have to do the skinning/weighting in Max/GMax. Especially if you are using GMax as your export vector, as your import options are very limited, so the chances of importing a fully rigged and weighted mesh are virtually nil.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:14 AM   #3
Darth Avlectus
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Originally Posted by DarthParametric View Post
What you choose to actually model in is irrelevant. All that matters is that you can get the resultant mesh into either Max or GMax so it can be set up and exported using the NWMax script.

I would suggest that if you do not already have any modelling proficiency and are looking to learn, GMax is probably a good place to start. It's a free, albeit crippled, version of Max 4.
That's where I am. I was hoping for something a little more than Gmax but I guess I'll keep chipping away.

Quote:
Although it can't do many things a lot of modern modelling apps can, it still retains the same basic Max workflow and conventions, so it puts you in good stead down the track (Max is the industry standard).
So if I got good with it, I'd be able to get the hang of other programs fairly quickly which are (presumably) based off the same or similar?

Quote:
The other main alternative in the free category is Blender. The downside is that it is arguably even more horrible to use than Max, but the upside is a lot of game modding custom content production is centred around it, so there are all sorts of import/export scripts available for various games (like TES and FO3/NV for example). If you aren't angling to pursue a career and modding is just a hobby, Blender might be the more optimal route in the long run.
Hm. Well Gmax isn't quite in the "horrible" department for me. But I will certainly keep that in mind since, yeah, it probably won't be a career.

Quote:
Regardless of what you model in, if you want animated meshes like heads, you'll have to do the skinning/weighting in Max/GMax. Especially if you are using GMax as your export vector, as your import options are very limited, so the chances of importing a fully rigged and weighted mesh are virtually nil.
Not that I really know what I'm talking about. Just... As it relates to modeling: is it a sort of incompatibility of exporting/importing files or is it just a flat lack of recognition?

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Originally Posted by Dak Drexl View Post
Just so you know, Daz and Poser are not modeling apps. What you do with them is take pre-made stuff and just create scenes and render them. If you want to actually learn 3D modeling, don't go for either.
Ah. Oh, ok so they're just visual programs? Might be handy for other stuff.

Quote:
Just so you know though, you don't have have to do anything special to get Daz for free. Just go to their website and download it.
lol yea, I found that out after logging off making my op here. Felt kinda foolish. Just discovered XNA posing studio too. Apparently in the same boat.

EDIT: BTW thanks! Appreciate it!!!


Quote:
iClone? It's meant for pre-vis and motion capture.
Good to know.

Quote:
Also, I obviously don't know if you are, but if you are a college student you can download Max from the Autodesk student site for free.
Ehh was but kinda ...burned that bridge.

Still, if I could possibly pull a maneuver with another C.C.'s graphics class...is it a limited time trial thing like you have it for as long as you are taking classes, or is it the whole thing for keeps?

Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 04-03-2013 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:58 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Darth Avlectus View Post
Hm. Well Gmax isn't quite in the "horrible" department for me.
If you came into it cold then you have an advantage. You've never known anything different, so you don't know what you are missing, or worse, had to adapt to it from a completely different set of workflow conventions.

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Originally Posted by Darth Avlectus View Post
Not that I really know what I'm talking about. Just... As it relates to modeling: is it a sort of incompatibility of exporting/importing files or is it just a flat lack of recognition?
As I mentioned, GMax is crippled, and one of the ways is the restriction of file formats it supports. Out of the box, it doesn't accept anything except its own GMax files and the 3DS format (which is basically useless). There is a way to get around this to a degree. GMax still retains Maxscript, so there are a number of scripts available (like NWMax) that can import and export various file types, side-stepping the limitations. However, this only goes so far, so generally you are limited to static meshes (OBJ arguably being the best vector). So my point was if you wanted to model a head/body in another program, you could do that. But you would then need to bring it into GMax before skinning/weighting it to the KOTOR rig.

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Ah. Oh, ok so they're just visual programs? Might be handy for other stuff.
When I first started out in modelling, "Poser porn" was a big thing. Basically taking models of naked women and arranging (posing, as the name implies) them in various titillating positions/scenes. Presumably there were also various other visualisation purposes that it was actually intended and used for (architecture, etc.). There was a whole slew of 3rd party companies that made various Poser ready meshes: people, clothing, props (furniture, etc.). I think it kind of died out once all the major 3D apps started coming bundled with more advanced character tools and render engines, and specific versions aimed at visualisation related stuff, but for a while there Poser was the go-to app for that sort of thing.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:58 PM   #5
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Ehh was but kinda ...burned that bridge.
I was able to download it from the student site without giving actual proof I was a student. Any time you load an Autodesk file on an Autodesk application made by a student version it gives you a message about it being for educational use only. They're pretty chill with the restrictions though apart from that.


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Old 04-04-2013, 05:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by DarthParametric View Post
If you came into it cold then you have an advantage. You've never known anything different, so you don't know what you are missing, or worse, had to adapt to it from a completely different set of workflow conventions.

As I mentioned, GMax is crippled, and one of the ways is the restriction of file formats it supports. Out of the box, it doesn't accept anything except its own GMax files and the 3DS format (which is basically useless). There is a way to get around this to a degree. GMax still retains Maxscript, so there are a number of scripts available (like NWMax) that can import and export various file types, side-stepping the limitations. However, this only goes so far, so generally you are limited to static meshes (OBJ arguably being the best vector). So my point was if you wanted to model a head/body in another program, you could do that. But you would then need to bring it into GMax before skinning/weighting it to the KOTOR rig.
Ah gotcha. I was more after changing an existing head a bit to the appearance of a certain fictional character. Or a few heads to several characters.

Didn't someone try that here a long time ago? Seems to me someone did anakin's head for the KOTOR games, but couldn't make it fit because of too many vertices or something like that.

Quote:
When I first started out in modelling, "Poser porn" was a big thing. Basically taking models of naked women and arranging (posing, as the name implies) them in various titillating positions/scenes. Presumably there were also various other visualisation purposes that it was actually intended and used for (architecture, etc.). There was a whole slew of 3rd party companies that made various Poser ready meshes: people, clothing, props (furniture, etc.). I think it kind of died out once all the major 3D apps started coming bundled with more advanced character tools and render engines, and specific versions aimed at visualisation related stuff, but for a while there Poser was the go-to app for that sort of thing.
Yeah, I more or less just discovered (or re-discovered) it now that I have some ideas of my own.
I'm admittedly a tad ambivalent about producing smut for a number of reasons. But I do have some ideas for other things. Green-screen backgrounds, comic strips, stuff like that. Even just meme pics. I do have some Original Characters I've created in app games and stuff that I happen to have become attached to.

3DX caught my attention due to the absolutely marvelous work by artist Craigos at his website. His years of 2d practice and photography have gone into his post-work and it definitely shows IMO.


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Originally Posted by Sam Spain View Post
I was able to download it from the student site without giving actual proof I was a student. Any time you load an Autodesk file on an Autodesk application made by a student version it gives you a message about it being for educational use only. They're pretty chill with the restrictions though apart from that.
Oh really? Thanks. Cuz...yea, otherwise I'd have to spend an arm and a leg either way.


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Old 04-04-2013, 05:34 AM   #7
DarthParametric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Avlectus View Post
marvelous work by artist Craigos
Ridiculously large breasted women with their kit off. Does Poser porn get any more archetypal?
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:37 AM   #8
Dak Drexl
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Just so you know, Daz and Poser are not modeling apps. What you do with them is take pre-made stuff and just create scenes and render them. If you want to actually learn 3D modeling, don't go for either. Just so you know though, you don't have have to do anything special to get Daz for free. Just go to their website and download it.

iClone? It's meant for pre-vis and motion capture.

Also, I obviously don't know if you are, but if you are a college student you can download Max from the Autodesk student site for free.


Last edited by Dak Drexl; 04-02-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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