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Old 04-25-2002, 04:08 AM   #1
PiousAugustus99
 
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Anti-Piracy planned for next patch?

I sure hope so, as it is there are tons of people who love this game but hundreds of them pirated it...Hard part of course is figuring out how to do this...
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Old 04-25-2002, 06:22 AM   #2
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Impossible, because each copy is EXACTLY indentical. If i never looked at the cd cover i will have no idea if its pirated or not.

Unless of course, each copy is stamped with its own "blueprint", but that is unlikely
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Old 04-25-2002, 06:24 AM   #3
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Having bought the game, I'm always annoyed at having to have the original in the drive when I play; I use the machine for other things during the day, watch the odd DVD, etc, so I did find it useful to get the no cd patch which allows me to put the disk away in the box.

This, unfortunately, allows less scrupulous people to make a pirate copy. Even though most hacker teams encourage you to buy software if you like it, I'm sure the majority don't.

Does anyone remember when software manuals postively encouraged you to make a backup before installing it ?
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Old 04-25-2002, 09:52 AM   #4
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Buy this game. So LucasArts can make more, thats what I say. If everyone had broadband and pirated the game, LucasArts will look at their profit and go "HOT DAMN! We made $10.00 on this game!!" and not make JK3 or 4, or patch it, or care.

What will happen is the death of PC gaming. As they move towards areas that SEEM more profitable, for the most part I have found that most people don't know how to copy for example a PS2 game. I think that is why PS2 games appear to be yielding a higher profit for companies.

If piracy gets REAL BAD, I'm willing to bet the only kinds of games available for the PC in the next 2-3 years will be MMO (massive mulitiplayer online) which will require you to pay per month to play their game. It's a shame really since the PC is a much better platform than any console, JK2 with its online play proves it.

I know most PC games you can't rent, buy, or try. In some cases I'll admit I have snagged a ripped copy of a game to try it. BUT if I DO LIKE IT, I'll go get it. keep the books manuals and everything. I have a good size collection at home of like 55 games, dating back to MW2!! and some that I have tossed away.

No one's rich, so its stupid to fork over cash for every pc game known to man just to keep the industry alive, but pirating games hurts all PC gamers in the end.
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:27 AM   #5
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Unfortunatly Raven/LA missed the opportunity to require a CD key that is checked upon attempt to join Internet multiplayer... While not a perfect protection, it does thin the heard for pirates. I know several people that pirate often but went and bought their own copies of HalfLife thanks to the WonID/CDkey check system they had.
But the game had no key, thus nothing is coded in to Identify the Installs. Now, weeks after release, it is too lat to impliment any thing of this sort
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:30 AM   #6
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Let me tell you something guys.

Do you know that there is no box game in most of west couintries like Turkey.In turkey you can find JO for just 1 dollar.ONLY 1 DOLLAR...There are much more serious problems.This countries goverments accept the illegal copies of this games and allow anyone to copy and sell them.Did you heard that before? So the problem is too serious? I paid 45 (euro) to my JO but a guy in Turkey just pays 1 dollar to have a copy of JO and play it free on the net.I dont why Raven allow them to play it on the net , why didnt they make a CD-KEY.Yeah Turkey's economy isnt so good and everyone cantgive 45-50 dollar to a game but Raven could make a price for them like 15-20 dollars.If they did this at least they could make some profit and also they could show respect to us who paid this game 45-50 dollars to buy by doing that.Am I wrong?
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:36 AM   #7
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Exclamation

The CD key thing can help a little. But often times CD keys are stolen and then implemented into a crack for the pirated versions.
And in Half-Life, cheaters that have been banned from numorous servers will try to aquire another CDkey so they can get back in.
And if an innocent person who has had their key taken tries to play while someone else is using it, they'll recieve an error message and are SOL for playing on MP.
So I'm kind of glad Raven didn't put one in, but they should have some form of protection.
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Old 04-25-2002, 11:09 AM   #8
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Last time I checked, earlier this week, the game was selling great. The piracy of the CDs is a non-issue with this one due to the positive buzz surrounding it. There are many who don't know how to copy games, you know. There are many who don't even know how to post on a forum.... think about the numbers. Pirates are a minority.
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Old 04-25-2002, 12:38 PM   #9
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The didn't implement anti-piracy because th cost per copy to license a protection/ implement a protection would have eaten into profits.

There has yet to be an anti-piracy that wasn't cracked almost instantly and the pirates are almost ALWAYS going to pirate.

The best way to avoid piracy is to make a Double CD game for UNDER $30. That way (at least to me) it is more pain to copy than to just go buy the thing.


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Old 04-25-2002, 12:43 PM   #10
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personally i doubt there are many people in turkey that can even afford a computer. let alone one up to date enough to run jk2. I doubt turkey's black market for games is much of the concern of raven. Heck do they even ship games to turkey?
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:08 PM   #11
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also keep in mind that some of us who downloaded the "pre retail release" version also own the game. The only difference between you and i is my CD still has the shrink wrap on it .
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:13 PM   #12
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If the patch that they ARE working on requires a CD to install, you might just see a reduction in the number of people who're playing online with warez versions. The thing that bugs me the most about those guys is they didn't get/read the manual, so I have to explain things to them.
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moleculor
If the patch that they ARE working on requires a CD to install, you might just see a reduction in the number of people who're playing online with warez versions. The thing that bugs me the most about those guys is they didn't get/read the manual, so I have to explain things to them.
you can still et around that using daeom-tools. Thats what i do. I just mount the jk2.bin file into my virtual cdrom drive. Windows thinks its an actual cdrom. The coolest thing though is i dont need a no-cd crack since it thinks the CD is loaded all the time. All the while my cd is shrink wrapped thus maintaining maximum collectors value
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:54 PM   #14
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So by breaking the law originally and then buying yourself a copy you think you are ok right?

Dude, you still broke the law. You still downloaded an illegal version. A stolen copy. Sure you bought a legal copy. You aren't using it, you are saving it to be a collector's item. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Do you know how many copies of the game were produced? How many copies of the Collectors Tin were produced? Do you seriously believe that anyone in their right minds is going to pay you the face value of the amount you paid for the software in 5 years? In 10 years?
If so, I feel for you and your deluded state.
And to come on a message board where the Dev team reads posts and to post freely that you downloaded an illegal copy of the game is not just stupid it's asinine.

You need to rexamine your thought processes because you've missed some rungs in your ladder of logic.


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Old 04-25-2002, 02:08 PM   #15
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Whatever... All the Devs care about with this is the Ca-Chink of the sale!

Don't you imagine they pirate the game for their own friends? Well, they do.

Don't you imagine they download the No-CD cracks so they don't have to take CDs everywhere they go... They Do.


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Old 04-25-2002, 02:21 PM   #16
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Right!!!! (as if the Devs would need no-cd cracks. You crack me up! LOL! They Wrote the damn thing!)

You obviously didn't read some of their posts from the threads that were going on in the two weeks before release when the only people that had the game WERE the warez kiddies.

[/SARCASM] You are so smart, they were so Supportive of the warez folks, they encouraged them, they wanted them to play, they wanted them to take money out of their pockets, they wanted they to squander the time they had spent over the previous 2 years on the game, the 80 hour weeks, the no weekends and no time off...[/end SARCASM]

These guys spent 2 years of their lives creating this games for you. If you stole it, that's right, STOLE, as in didn't pay for it then you are a thief pure and simple and no amount of rationalization, no twisted logic can change that fact.
I don't care if you buy a copy after the fact, it's still theft. You don't go into a grocery store, take food and tell them you'll pay them in two or three weeks if you like the food.
Sorry, software piracy is wrong. End of story. Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.
Buh-Bye.


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Old 04-25-2002, 02:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fyunch Click
So by breaking the law originally and then buying yourself a copy you think you are ok right?

Dude, you still broke the law. You still downloaded an illegal version. A stolen copy. Sure you bought a legal copy. You aren't using it, you are saving it to be a collector's item. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Do you know how many copies of the game were produced? How many copies of the Collectors Tin were produced? Do you seriously believe that anyone in their right minds is going to pay you the face value of the amount you paid for the software in 5 years? In 10 years?
If so, I feel for you and your deluded state.
And to come on a message board where the Dev team reads posts and to post freely that you downloaded an illegal copy of the game is not just stupid it's asinine.

You need to rexamine your thought processes because you've missed some rungs in your ladder of logic.
lol the collectors item thing is a joke duh!.

what are the devs going to do? sue me for downloading something that i had paid in full since december? I think not. I own their game. I just got to play the single player a few days before you.

whos to say im not just braggin? whos to say i really didnt just make an image off the retail cd and use that. The point is, right now im using a legal backup image that allows me to not worry about the cd in the drive BS and also protects my CD from damage.

I wouldnt be surprised if one of the devs leaked the game in the first place. It has happened before (not necissarily by raven but other software devs have admited to leaking to the warez scene).

Bottom line. I paid in full for JK2 before it was ever released. They have my money. That is all.
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Old 04-25-2002, 02:58 PM   #18
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rebel, you still do not understand the concept of how software "ownership" works do you?

"I own their game." no, you don't, they still do, even once you've paid for it, and technically they can legally take it from you, just because you downloaded it early.

you purchased a lease to use their software. nothing more, they retain full ownership at all times.

"Don't you imagine they pirate the game for their own friends? Well, they do. " why the hell would they??? I imagine they have acess to an unlimited amount of legitimate copies that they can hand out for nothing! geeze...
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Old 04-25-2002, 03:03 PM   #19
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no i fully understand software licensing. by ownership i mean i own the physical CD the data is written on. This legally is mine and legally i can make a backup copy. They own the IP ON the cd but the physical CD is mine. That they cannont take away.
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Old 04-25-2002, 03:12 PM   #20
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Actually, no. The media it's written on has nothing to do with it. It's still the software that is on it. If you want a blank cd I'm sure they'll give you one in trade. There have been examples of software licenses being pulled and it is the MEDIA that is pulled from the site. Otherwise they could re-install the software. Duh.

Read the agreement carefully. It's a lot more limiting than you might think.


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Old 04-25-2002, 03:28 PM   #21
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Allow me to reiterate, that our official site policy is to discourage software piracy, especially of LEC games, since they're our friends and visit our sites regularly.

We reserve the right to edit or ban any postings we feel are inappropriate on this subject.

Raven and LEC put a lot of work into the game. If they could implement some protection to cut down on the number of pirates clogging the servers, I'm all for it.
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Old 04-25-2002, 03:50 PM   #22
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no, the physical media i own. can they revoke the license? yes, if the media isnt removed can i reinstall it? yes, but it wont be legal.

there have been alot of court cases about this. the physical media is owned by the end customer regardless of what is written on it.

either way it doesnt ****ing matter. if they revoked my license i would still be playing their game .

they have my money thats all that counts in this software game anyways.
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Old 04-25-2002, 04:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
Allow me to reiterate, that our official site policy is to discourage software piracy, especially of LEC games, since they're our friends and visit our sites regularly.

We reserve the right to edit or ban any postings we feel are inappropriate on this subject.

Raven and LEC put a lot of work into the game. If they could implement some protection to cut down on the number of pirates clogging the servers, I'm all for it.
no offense mr kurgan but i mean come on wtf. clogging the servers? jk2 isnt exactly tearing it up in the number of people online category. i agree raven deserves all the money they can get BUT. I dont think it was ravens call on this game. LucasArts, if worried, could have easily licensed the Q3 authentication scheme. I mean for christ's sake there isnt even a CD key for JK2.

An after purchase patch IMO is no place for including some sort of piracy prevention. That should be in the retail release or not at all. Dont waste time trying to patch in this stuff when you could be working on more game content.

just my $.02
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Old 04-25-2002, 04:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by scoobydoo
Having bought the game, I'm always annoyed at having to have the original in the drive when I play; I use the machine for other things during the day, watch the odd DVD, etc, so I did find it useful to get the no cd patch which allows me to put the disk away in the box.

This, unfortunately, allows less scrupulous people to make a pirate copy. Even though most hacker teams encourage you to buy software if you like it, I'm sure the majority don't.

Does anyone remember when software manuals postively encouraged you to make a backup before installing it ?
you advocate no-cd as both a tool for convenience for owners and piracy for non-owners. But you fail to see that a pirate can have a cd too 'burned copy' and the most common and most damaging form of piracy is when an owner lends out his copy, which gives that person an actual cd as well
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Old 04-25-2002, 04:19 PM   #25
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Okay... you OBVIOUSLY know the game industry better than I do.

The devs do use the No-CD cracks 'cause when the production version comes out they are just as subjest to the CD check as we are... and well, not having to use a CD is just more convinient.

I'm done here... all these Warez and Copyright rants are always the same. Pointless.


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Old 04-25-2002, 04:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by MankaCat


you advocate no-cd as both a tool for convenience for owners and piracy for non-owners. But you fail to see that a pirate can have a cd too 'burned copy' and the most common and most damaging form of piracy is when an owner lends out his copy, which gives that person an actual cd as well
you dont need the actual CD. Just download the image and use daemon-tools to mount the virtual CD image.

But this is all beside the point. The authentication piece of Q3 was never instituted in this game. I think lucasarts wasnt willing to pony up the cash for this. Or it was removed so lamers can use the zone.

Either way its not there and none of you should feel sorry for the developers. If they were concerned or if raven actually had a say in it, the autentication scheme would be in there. To date according to graeme divine(im not spelling that right probably) from iD software no one has succesfully cracked the Q3. The Q3 master server approach IS used in SoF2, a Raven only game. Which leads me to beleive Lucas either said no or didnt want to pay.
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Old 04-25-2002, 04:28 PM   #27
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OFN. Yes, the CD key was left out because Lucasarts decided to leave it off due to some customer service concerns.
However, Raven did make some cryptic remarks to some warez users regarding their use of the software.

I'll be interested to see how many people will be able to play after they update to the next version.


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Old 04-25-2002, 05:22 PM   #28
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I dont know how they will or if they can stop the illegitimate people at this stage in the game.

Without a CD key or some form of authentication, im not sure how they can stop people. Requiring the CD is easily bypassed. Unless there is an included 'file' of some sort on every CD that is unique. But that is easily bypassed as well.

I think they should do whatever they can though. If you warez a game, play it, like it, and dont buy it. Then youre scum and should be drug into the street and stoned to death.
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Old 04-25-2002, 05:31 PM   #29
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Warez and updates...

i don't advocate using warez, so no flaming me for that!

however, i seriously doubt there is anything that can now be done to prevent those users from playing. I mean, you can't institue the key check now, no one would have keys! and that leaves what to prevent warez users from playing online????
code changes? well i'm sure the warez version will update just fine, as it is a 1:1 copy, right? so....they won't do anything, just like no other company has done anything after release either. so let's waste no more time over a discussion that will go no where....

my $0.02

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Old 04-25-2002, 07:39 PM   #30
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its somewhat funny to hear people talk about warez on this forum. theres a very clear cut line between those who are knowledgeable and people who are clearly blathering about something do not understand at all. in case you haven't noticed, there is a big difference between what's morally right and what's technically legal. i preordered the game, but downloaded it early. that's right, i did. raven got my money because they deserved it, and did i great job on this game. but i wanted to play it early, so i downloaded an iso... is that technically illegal, yes. is it morally wrong and does anyone care, no.

for christs sake, that guy flaming the dude for doing the same thing is a moron. its not our fault that you don't know how to do the same thing, and we got to play it a week early while you stared at your mailbox. im a software developer myself, and i can tell you right now that playing a game and not buying it makes you a dick. but as long as raven gets support, and i get to play the game, i don't see what the problem is.

as for no-cd patches, these are used to a great extent by legit software owners...i have dozens of games that ive purchased all over my desk, and if you think i want to hunt down a cd every time i want to play one, you're nuts. any cd protection would have been cracked in 2 minutes and just annoyed legit users (or stopped some from getting to play, in the case of cdkeys.) some people are losers who d/l games and never pay...but guess what, you can't do anything about it. just know that you paid for yours and play guilt free. put away your junior anti-piracy deputy badge and join the rest of us in the real world.

oh yeah, better delete all those mp3's sitting on your harddrive as well. you theiving bastard. hehehe.
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Old 04-25-2002, 09:31 PM   #31
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Want someone to flame guys? Flame me, yes flame me, I tried to pirate Jedi Knight 2 Outcast 2 hours ago, yes me, guess what, It didn't work, and I sort of regret it. All the work these people put and people just steal it, like someone getting a new bike they worked so hard for and just buying it before the person gets it, or stealing a project from someone and then giving your self all the credit, it is horrible and I am sorry for attempting it, it is my first time. Sorry.
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:46 PM   #32
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no offense mr kurgan but i mean come on wtf. clogging the servers? jk2 isnt exactly tearing it up in the number of people online category. i agree raven deserves all the money they can get BUT. I dont think it was ravens call on this game. LucasArts, if worried, could have easily licensed the Q3 authentication scheme. I mean for christ's sake there isnt even a CD key for JK2.

An after purchase patch IMO is no place for including some sort of piracy prevention. That should be in the retail release or not at all. Dont waste time trying to patch in this stuff when you could be working on more game content.

just my $.02
None taken. When I say "clogging the servers" that's what I mean. I don't mean to sound elitest here, but who are these people?

They are the ones bragging and posting spoilers before anyone else had the game.

They are the ones endlessly whining about how they can't beat a certain section or can't figure out something, that they would know about already if they owned the game (and had read the manual).

They are the ones who are impatient and whine about the game in general.

They are the ones who cheat because they are bored.

What does it matter to them? They got the game for free, and it required no effort on their part. Instant gratification.

And, I know what's going to be said..

"well so and so (or I myself) pre-ordered the game, then I downloaded a copy because it's ethical and they got my money and I'm a devoted fan etc"

"I warez because (fill in reason) and I buy games I like etc etc"

Doesn't matter why you do it, the point is, it's against site policy to promote it, like it or not. These debates never go anywhere anyway, the con side will always have an advantage as long as we're officially anti-pirate.

Quote:
jk2 isnt exactly tearing it up in the number of people online category.
Compared to what, Half Life? I see quite a few people playing online, I think that says something. I was saying that I don't need warez kiddies playing alongside me in games, that's all I'm saying.

Quote:
I dont think it was ravens call on this game. LucasArts, if worried, could have easily licensed the Q3 authentication scheme. I mean for christ's sake there isnt even a CD key for JK2.
Maybe so. We don't know the real reason. I wish they had. That would have meant I wouldn't have to had play next to these jag-offs. ; p

Think of it this way.. what if you waited in line to see Star Wars Episode 2, and you paid ahead of time and got great seats etc, and you paid full price for tickets, way in advance.

So you show up and this big group of loud, obnoxious people budges ahead of you in line, and sneaks into the theatre, pays nothing and sits right in front of you at the movie. They talk during the film and make a general annoyance of themselves, but they don't get thrown out of the theatre.

They get up and leave just before you do and you hear them whining about how the movie "sucked."

Wouldn't that kind of ruin the experience for you? That's how many of us see the whole piracy of JK2. I know that the lack of a cd key is partially to blame, but the other part is the ease that pirates have of distrbuting stuff, and the care-free attitude people have about it.

Yeah, I know, "it can't be stopped" and a free game is too hard to pass up for many many people. But there's a reason why it's resented on a fan site like this. I don't want my tax dollars to go to arrest people for copying games, but I just would like people to show a little respect to the developers and their true fans, for a change.
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