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Old 05-22-2002, 02:24 AM   #1
Homosexual Ewok
 
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What exactly is not lame?

1-Grip is gay.
2-Drain is lame.
3-Heal is gay.
4-Protect is lame.
5-Lightning is gay.
6-Kicks are gay.
7-Any type of back stab is lame.
8-Any overhead jumping attack (DFA) is gay.
9-Running in swinging a saber makes you a headless chicken.
10-Running away swinging a saber is lame.
11-Push is gay.
12-Pull is gay.
13-Dark Rage is cheap.
14-Guns are cheap.
15-Drone/sentry kills are cheap.
16-Pushing the switch on the trash compactor is lame.
17-Saber throws are cheap.


Please, any of you who have come here and bitched, pissed and moaned about any of the above, please, please tell me how I should kill you since using any of the above makes me a lame player. I mean seriously, how do you go about "killing with honor"? You can't do any of the above, since that would make you a hypocrite. I must be missing the one special Jedi-code-of-honor move/combo that Lucas/Raven forgot to include in my manual, so please "1337 of the 1337" clue me in.
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Old 05-22-2002, 02:33 AM   #2
Vestril
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You're a homosexual Ewok, you can do any of them (since you're already gay (homosexual) and lame (Ewok)). You're frrrreeeeeee.

Seriously though, as near as I can tell, all you're allowed to do is stand in one place and hope someone jumps off a ledge or something...


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Old 05-22-2002, 03:23 AM   #3
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Backstab is the only thing that is gay. Do any of the others.
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Old 05-22-2002, 03:49 AM   #4
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dare i whisper, "...homophobe"
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Old 05-22-2002, 04:00 AM   #5
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SWG will own all this


Maby maby not, that aint the question?
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Old 05-22-2002, 04:19 AM   #6
Vestril
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teir
SWG will own all this
Did SWG suddenly morph into an FPS


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Old 05-22-2002, 05:39 AM   #7
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Ewok,

everything is lame, you understand jedi knight now! ah but you forgot some things, jump spammers. you know, the people who jump up and down during the entire fight, making them harder to hit.

another good one is the people who hotkey the /kill command for everytime someone pushes them off the edge (robbing the person of the kill) then they use the excuse " i dont feel like waiting for respawn ". people who think they are so important that they cant wait an extra 1 or 2 seconds to fall and die.

in the end, just ignore people. i usually make it a point to kill the whiner again using the same method just to annoy them more. i figure if they are gonna bitch, i might as well give them something to really bitch about.
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Old 05-22-2002, 06:28 AM   #8
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Well actaully the blue stance upper cut (lunge) has some good points and seems fairly balanced. In fact it seems so balanced I'm sure it will get jacked up in the next patch for sure.

Posites.
It kills in 3 consecutive lunges (fairly balanced power)
It blocks most red stance swings.
It can sometimes block a blue backstab.
I have blocked the DFA with it a couple times.
It is a great counter to a dfa after landing.
It is a great combo to include with the backflip if someone charges.
It can close the distance to a dfa so you can avoid getting squashed.
Its above average power when compared to the normal swing is balanced perfectly with just the right amount of animation delay.


Negatives.
?
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Old 05-22-2002, 06:31 AM   #9
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I don't get how the backstab is gay or lame or whatever. It's incredibly easy to avoid.

The one move that I am beginning to find lame, is the medium stance spin. The one you do when someone is right behind you. I have spent 2 days playing on saber only servers and have seen this moved spammed by almost the entire roster. Also, every game was won by one of the spammers! It is so irritating! You can be happily fighting someone when out-of-the-blue, some goober pops in from nowhere, pops off the spin and kills you and your opponent. grrr.... Also, I see people pop it off without even having their back to someone! How in the hack can they do that?!

hmmm....that turned into a rant. Oops. I just meant to express my concern at the spammage.


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Old 05-22-2002, 07:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
another good one is the people who hotkey the /kill command for everytime someone pushes them off the edge (robbing the person of the kill) then they use the excuse " i dont feel like waiting for respawn ". people who think they are so important that they cant wait an extra 1 or 2 seconds to fall and die.
Sure it's lame, I do it, lol. I do it because I dont find getting pushed or pulled while jumping up to a higher level, ala ns_streets or bespin as very fair :P. I AM KING LLAMA!!!!
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Old 05-22-2002, 07:55 AM   #11
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Lame?

I think what annoys most people is spam. especialy in a saber only setting. with gun servers though so long as it's not exploit (pull backstab for example) spam I could care less...

Ask yourself this, do I saber throw a lot in saber only servers? do I do it when I am almost dead hoping for a lucky hit to even it out? or do I do it more than swing? do I throw everytime someone is swinging just about?

to be honest all moves ad styles can be spammed, but you won't be yelled at if it's just saber style spamming. for example if your good at red stance, use it! I won't bitch and moan about it

However if I am fighting you and the only way you can kill me is with some spamed move and luck, your lame. end of story.

some force powers I feel are a bit imabalenced in V1.03, namely when it comes to dark vs dark battles. It used to be drain could counter lightning effectively. now drain is useless against it. So guess what... it is spammed a lot now when possible...

However here's my suggestion to anyone who bitches moans or whines about it all. do what I did, unless someone asks for your opinions like this thread did, leave the subject alone, and go find a server that limits things you think are lame.

think guns are lame? go join a no guns server. think X force power is lame, join a nf server.

think saber throws are lame? find a server that has it turned off.

However the problem that I agree on with any of the people who whine is this:

the things that are lame are often spammed... Thus imbalanced since you don't spam bad moves do you? I mean your not going to spam rolling on the ground, right? sure it's annoying as hell but it's almost useless in terms of offense LOL and thus doesn't bug me much...

I do agree we shouldn't HAVE to limit ourselves to no force no throw, no guns servers to enjoy this game. however from the beginning of this game I felt that the games powers ETC would lead to a LOT of people whining about X force power and Y saber style from the get go.

A game like this is hard to balance now that it is in motion. It leads to nerfs, when realistically nerfs are RARELY the right answer. I don't mind long saber battles since I like dueling, and FFA servers where people actually will duel or simply duel servers.

However I understand and feel for those who are left out in the cold who want to have fun with CTF, or servers with everything turned on.

thus I feel if a new patch comes out things need to be beefed up, not nerfed. I agree on many points with Artfxlife (or whatever his name is) on his suggestions for 1.04. most are well thought out, and only a few I think would lead to an imbalance.

counters need to be in place for people to use. For example light side has a counter for every force power, but dark sides main counter (drain) is too nerfed now to be of use against other dark siders. You COULd use dark rage, but if you ask me that power is too dangerous in itself to be used as a counter for all force powers on the dark side!

Saber throw, don't nerf it in any way, simply make it so that a block will make you lose your saber when you throw it maybe 50-80% of the time.

If you do that I would be happy to duel with saber throw on especialy against a spammer.

Thus the whole point of this post is this.

I don't feel ANY of the things listed above are lame by themselves. When they are spammed however some of them become lame. Wether it kills me or not, if I see someone spamming something over and over and over... I just bow my head and sigh, and decide only to cross paths with them when I feel I need to try and teach em a lesson or something. I won't even duel a spammer on FFA for example.

Why? because win or lose I feel dirty somehow and bored. I think most of us can agree on that...


We all have to die, the only question is... Do you want it on your feet? or on your knees...
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Old 05-22-2002, 08:15 AM   #12
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I don't feel ANY of the things listed above are lame by themselves. When they are spammed however some of them become lame. Wether it kills me or not, if I see someone spamming something over and over and over... I just bow my head and sigh, and decide only to cross paths with them when I feel I need to try and teach em a lesson or something. I won't even duel a spammer on FFA for example.
Actually it seems more like you would say that you only think any of those things are lame by themselves. They're only not lame if you use a combination of them


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Old 05-22-2002, 08:34 AM   #13
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I'm going to have to say that the backstab move is the most lame move, the rest of that original list can be avoided if you go onto a NF server. But that backstab... It was cool before, 'cuz it was harder to do and was more special if you actually pulled it off. But now you either get A) someone who just runs into battle backwards, which is really incredibly dumb, or B) someone who does it constantly, and spins around while doing it. And yes, its easy to avoid, but I find just the fact that someone does the stupid move frustrates me to no end because it makes them look incredibly idiotic, and makes me feel like I'm playing against someone who has no skill and no interest in having any fun and playing the game correctly. Its like playing Monopoly with the guy that always pretends he robs the bank - it was kinda funny the first time he did it, then the second time was kinda lame, but now you just want to jam a fork in each of his eyes and claim you're the Godfather of the Boardwalk/Park Place areas and he's crossed you for the last time.
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Old 05-22-2002, 09:07 AM   #14
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ROFL!

Quote:
Its like playing Monopoly with the guy that always pretends he robs the bank - it was kinda funny the first time he did it, then the second time was kinda lame, but now you just want to jam a fork in each of his eyes and claim you're the Godfather of the Boardwalk/Park Place areas and he's crossed you for the last time.
Thats Friggin great!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH! I did that once to my little sister when I was about 7 and she was about 3... poor thing... she only winks now when she tries to blink... (J/K )

Heheh and as for what I feel is lame?

Well I think you misread me a bit... I don't mind repeated "TACTICS" but repeated moves suck. If you backstab, then yellow DFA then saber throw and do nothing else I call that borderline lame, and it gets similar treatement...

Conversly say you use drain whenever your hurt. Well I don't think thats lame. if you do, well too bad. this could LOOK like spam to some, but is no more a problem than healing any other way is.

Do you regularly use grip or pull to keep someone away from power ups ETC? to me thats a valid tactic.

However if you grip or pull every other move just to get a spammed advantage I dunno... thats borderline in my book...

How about if you use grip then go behind a wall or something so someone can't push or pull to counter it if they don't use absorb?

Is that a valid technique? Shouldn't line of sight be in effect for grip like it is for the other force powers?

I mean i can't push or pull or lightning or drain you if your behind a wall how come you can keep gripping me? That = a lame tactic.

If you kill me that way you really have gained nothing, but a get millions of photons coming from the screen with the score board saying you got a kill.

Whoopdedoo...


We all have to die, the only question is... Do you want it on your feet? or on your knees...
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Old 05-22-2002, 09:19 AM   #15
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Do you know how easy it is to counter the backstab!?

I played online and I was called a Speed Whore for using speed to get to two people having a fight faster. How is that lame or whorish!?

I was called a push whore for pushing someone off a ledge after a huge jump down from the top of Nar Shadda to the ground floor, after I landed behind him.

I was called a backstand whore for using backstab once in a duel. Jump over him, and did a back stab, not ass fighting, and how is that whorish!?

I just think a lot of the community are a bunch of whiners who aren't happy unless they win, being the l33t hA><0r$ that they are.

Personally, I'll play the way I always play. I use moves depending on my situation, and push is a powerful ally, though easily countered by Absord and Pull Level 3. Screw them. Just enjoy the game.


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Old 05-22-2002, 09:59 AM   #16
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D.L.

Seriously dude I think your missing the point here...

don't let my posts fool you, we are not talking about game imbalances like the difficulty or lack there of to counter backstab... we are discussing what is ad what is not lame, in a vain attempt to make some sense out of it.

Personaly I wouldnever call you lame if your playing the way you describe, you sound more like how I play, you use the right thing at the right time, and don't spam it just cuz it worked once or twice for you.

As for backstab being easy to counter, it is so long as it's not a pull backstab. and if that kind of gameplay is what your playing this game for,then more power to you, but I don't think most of the players want that.

As for calling us all whiners or lamers for trying to figure out what is lame or isn't. again, I think your just misreading most of the posts here... didn't see one whine...

to me whining is posting about this crap and just compaining without offering suggestions... if your just rehashing it, and making it clear your losing badly at this game THEN it;s whining...

But the same can be said to people who compain that they are getting flamed for spamming the same move over and over.

It's like saying.

WTF! I just backstabbed for about an hour, and these ******* dare to call me a spammer!? Then this guy came along and kick/banned me! these people suck, whiners like this should just leave! they are ruinging the game for me!!! I want to backstab all I want and you shouldn't try to stop me cuz it's not fair to take away my one move simply because it is imbalanced.

This is also a whine... Take it or leave it, it's the truth.

and further more, although I agree these topics have been chewed to death over and over, I also feel that without vocalizing a compaint and just settling the game will never improve. I think Raven should be able in a possible future patch to divine the real gripes Vs the simple whines...

so I say whine all you want. If the thread looks like a whine thread I usualy avoid it. it's just like the dial on a radio, if you don't like what your hearing, why not take your own advice and go elsewhere and don't whine to me about it?

so to you if we are whining, then let us be. what is to be gained by calling us whiners? you've wasted your time, and my time, and honestly I got lots of time to waste on days like today so really you accomplished nothing.


We all have to die, the only question is... Do you want it on your feet? or on your knees...
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Old 05-22-2002, 10:13 AM   #17
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Re: D.L.

I'm agreeing with you. I'm just posting those as examples of anything I do is lame. Sad really.

As for calling us all whiners or lamers for trying to figure out what is lame or isn't. again, I think your just misreading most of the posts here... didn't see one whine...

You misinterpretted that. I was calling the general online multiplayer community a load of whiners, not you guys. Everyone I've played I've gotten the same responses as I stated in my last post.

so to you if we are whining, then let us be. what is to be gained by calling us whiners? you've wasted your time, and my time, and honestly I got lots of time to waste on days like today so really you accomplished nothing.

This whole thing is really moot now isn't it!? Once again, you misunderstood me


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Old 05-22-2002, 10:34 AM   #18
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LOL

Ok then D.L. We agree to remain misunderstood then heheh.

But seriously thanks for understanding what I meant, since I wasn't try ing to flame you (though I may have sounded like it at one point).

I agree though in part that this forum has turned out a bunch of whiners on both sides of the coin... and set them loose into the world.

However again I must have misinterperted what you wrote as a claim that we where whining in this thread (maybe some did but not all).

anyway thanks for the heads up and rebuttle


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Old 05-22-2002, 10:44 AM   #19
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Ok then D.L. We agree to remain misunderstood then heheh.


I don't agree to that!!!

But seriously thanks for understanding what I meant, since I wasn't try ing to flame you (though I may have sounded like it at one point).


No problem. The whole whinging thing is getting annoying. Thankfully it has calmed down a bit

However again I must have misinterperted what you wrote as a claim that we where whining in this thread (maybe some did but not all).

anyway thanks for the heads up and rebuttle


No problem. This thread makes a lot of good points, and I really cannot stop laughing everytime I see the authors name.



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Old 05-22-2002, 11:18 AM   #20
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Demangel

I totally agree with you. All these moves are great unless they are being spammed. It really is an awesome feeling when you are saberfighting, maybe dueling and you really manage to pull off a nice special move to finish off your opponent. Then the move is used as it was intended to be: a finisher move. It looks very cool then and it also requires some skill. Just being defensive and waiting for a hole in the opponents defense to quickly run up to him and perform a backstab is lame.

Idea for v1.04: all special moves can only be pulled off when your opponent has less then 30 hitpoints, otherwise, the animation just doesn't start. Just an idea for a patch... )


BTW: being lame is more about an attitude than actually about a certain move or force power. Think about it.

This attitude IMHO includes:

1.) being flexible and unpredictable by using different stances, different moves, different force powers --> if you do this, you also automatically

2.) avoid spamming also if one move is very effective (e.g. pull/backstab). Develop some sense for good style, try to imagine Obi Wan in the movies, do they fight butt first? No!!

3.) use the environment creativly by using wall walks, pressing switches of trash presses, and - yes - pushing people off ledges if applicable (well, while at the same time showing people some respect, see next point)

4.) show the opponent some respect (don't attack when typing, let him bow if he likes to, don't push ppl off the pad on bespin if they are just standing there, saber down, watching a duel...)

5.) give your opponent credit if he fights well. Also if he kills you with a move that - only if spammed - may be lame. Don't whine about DFA just because it's DFA, once in a while, like I said, DFA is a real cool move.

This is no complete ruleset, I also do not want to make up some Anti Lamer Code ("hey, now go and add a -=ALC=- tag to your name!"), this is just to make people put some common sense into ther playing style or, well start to develop a decent style in the first place...

Keywords: attitude, style, creative, respect, unpredictable
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Old 05-22-2002, 11:20 AM   #21
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If you see me around in the game (only in TFFA, and FFA) then you can be sure that 99.99% of my moves is gonna be backstab. Of course I won't be going backwards, but just be prepped for a quick turn, and backstab. I backstab like "there is no tommorow", and I always have the most kills on my team. If that's illegal sue me, but everyone else does it, so I don't see why I shouldn't. Everyone like "pretends" that they are all fair, but when push comes to shove, and they find themselves with 5-20 health, they somehow have the same pattern of starting to go backwards. I never backstab in duel tho, since I respect the other player, and I want it to be a real fight, but seriously, if you try and spam the kick on me, you will be kicked to death by me, and if you do a backstab, you will be backstabbed by me.

Have a nice day...


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1. I kill you.
2. You cry for a lightsabre damage nerf.
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Old 05-22-2002, 12:09 PM   #22
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Red face

Less whining, more playing.

Geez, get over it. "OMG THEY USE BACKSTAB WHORE!" If backstab is so easy to avoid/counter, then do it and kill your opponent. Who cares if they run into battle backwards? Easy kill for you, right? A rocket up the bum, push/pull etc etc.

If you want to play "honorably", make a mod or your own server where all you can use is the light stance and you can only swing whilst standing still and connecting only takes off 1% life. Then you'll have your "honor".

Meanwhile I'll be having fun on normal servers using grip, backstab, rockets, and whatever else Raven put in the game for players to employ as winning tactics.
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Old 05-22-2002, 02:02 PM   #23
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I think this phenomenon (everyone complaining about moves you use) is familiar territory to anyone who has had a sibling learning a martial art.

Remeber when they wanted to show you a move they learned, and asked you to grab their arm a certain way? Then, instead of grabbing their arm, you punched them in the face to give them a chance to show off their kung-fu?

This is the same thing. People whine to get you to grab their arm a certain way...the only thing they know how to counter. This tells you, though, that they probably are defenceless against a good old punch to the face.

Keep on punchin'

-HP
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Old 05-22-2002, 03:19 PM   #24
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I like this thread
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Old 05-22-2002, 03:22 PM   #25
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Re: What exactly is not lame?

Quote:
Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok
please tell me how I should kill you since using any of the above makes me a lame player.
Kill or be killed.
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Old 05-22-2002, 03:41 PM   #26
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don't worry about the whiners.. just play the game as best you can.. some people just hate losing.. I'd rather win for sure but losing is a part of life..
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Old 05-22-2002, 03:56 PM   #27
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a whiner is the real llama...

more examples of homosexual statements:

"omg you used bacta! bacta is so cheap, let's face it you're the only player on the server who has access to it... I figure I'm good enough to win without using CHEATS and if I lose it's because you cheated!"

(before fight) "I only have xx hitpoints left, but I'll fight anyway, just remember if I lose it's because I only had xx hitpoints left, but if I win I'm the greatest of all time. and no thank you, I don't need that health pack that is sitting right there." (idiot proceeds to lose in one hit) "You f@cking health whore, it was a lucky hit that killed me, faggot."

(also before fight) "I don't need shields, you obviously need them so you take them." (idiot is killed in one hit) "OH YOU'RE SUCH A FAGGOT, YOU TOOK ALL THE SHIELDS!"

"all you do is run and throw, run and throw... you're such a fag. be a man and stand there and trade combos with someone who isn't a fag."

"all you do is stand and swing, stand and swing... you're such a fag. be a man and don't swing at me once in awhile because I keep killing myself on your swinging saber."

"pull/backsweep is so GAY. man even the newbies can get better scores than me using that EXPLOIT, but it just shows that they have no skill even though my score is 2, there's is 38, and I've lost 9 out of the 10 duels I've been involved in. The guys who beat me were all cheat faggots anyway."

if you whine during something inconsequential like a VIDEOGAME I would wager you whine in real-life, and a whiner is just a really vocal loser.
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Old 05-22-2002, 04:18 PM   #28
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One liners -

Fight the good fight.

Mix it up.

Use any moves you want but don't repeat them over and over..

Playing with style and finesse is FAR more enjoyable than random hack and slash or predictable spam.

Demangel is actually as good as he says he is AND he plays very fair/well.

I may not be the best saberist, but I can hold my own and put a hurtin' on the really good players.

I never use heavy...it's way too slow for my tastes.

I DO use some of the other "lame" moves, but only on occasion and as they were intended (finishing moves or "I'm almost dead I need to cut my opponent down a bit")

Finding other players that suit YOUR style makes the game much more enjoyable.

Find servers that suit your style whatever that may be.
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Old 05-22-2002, 05:35 PM   #29
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hey yall! I'm back from vaction... so let the insane posts resume

Quote:
I may not be the best saberist, but I can hold my own and put a hurtin' on the really good players.
agree... I'm not the best, but I know the combos and am quite deadly if you goof...(when i find a server with a good ping, that is damn modem. )

as to the whiners; "eh" seems to sum it up... i dont whine much, cept when posted rules are broken... like this one server today... it was the new naboo map(OMG that roxors ) and the pregame screen said"do not push or grip over a pit"

so i say" ok whatever"(FF jedi master ) and go on with it. for about 15.min it was huming great, having a blast, then come the moron.

push, pull, grip the works. RPGing a janitor allover the place. the admin was there, but wouldent do anything about it... only thing that he would do was say that next game was turn off force.

when half the people in room started roaring at the guy, saying that they would leave if he did, he responded with a "is that some kinda threat?"

I piped up and said something like "why dont you just enforce the rules?" and got booted....

iknow you will tell me its his server and he can do anything he wants, but that doesnt make it right...

oh well, rant mode off...

ps: I had found a server with DotF loaded with allforces diabled but saber and jump.... that was fun.... also had cheats on for lightstaff, but did not say so at the start. you know, the" CHEATS ARE ON" message. but bad for me, this NF sab only server had *******s cheating for guns.... with no way to counter.... sigh.

eh.
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Old 05-22-2002, 05:59 PM   #30
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WB Spy


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Old 05-22-2002, 09:49 PM   #31
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GOOGLY! :D

There you are man! been looking for you heheh. Haven't been able to find that server I saw you on the other night! LOL

Just PM me or start a thread adressed to me sometime and maybe we'll hook up and put the smack down on some folks or eachother?

Anyway thanks for backing me up a bit, We had a great game that other night and yeah you did put a few moments of hurt on me real good hehe

Though I wouldn't say I'm wonderful at this game *blushes*

But I will say I don't suck either LOL.

anyway thanks for the backup, always nice to be remembered from servers ETC. As I said I was wondering when I would see you on the forums again, we seriously should plkay sometime. I'll set up RW or somehting and our own server and pull in some bots and few friends maybe for some FFA + dueling action? Just let me know

til lthen I gotta figure out how to configure servers to play the way I want em too (heheh X force power disabled, but y still in for balancing ETC). Once I figure it out, I will probably put up a semi dedicated server and ask possible regulars what thier preferences for server setting are so I can be sure to make it likeable to everyones tastes.

Anyway yeah see you around man


We all have to die, the only question is... Do you want it on your feet? or on your knees...
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Old 05-22-2002, 10:12 PM   #32
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All sarcasm aside, I still don't see why people complain about "move spammers".

Honestly, to me a person who does the same thing over and over with little or no variation, is quite frankly, one Hell of an easy kill.

"Hey, here comes Bob, I bet he is going to try and zap me with lightning".

"Yep, I thought so, funny how Bob never notices I turn blue when he zaps me".

"Man I bet Bob is getting tired of getting knocked down every time he tries to do that".

"Oh well, time to stick my ass in his face and jab my sword into his head".

"Silly Bob, I bet he'll do that again".
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Old 05-22-2002, 11:09 PM   #33
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LOL @ ewok

Thats what usualy goes through my mind too, cept when it's exploit spam... then I just close my eyes and wait to respawn so I can pick up where I left off..

I think the point is though many people don't play this game just for points... Although we all like winning, many of us like to play to pretend like we're Jedi or something (ghey as that sounds it's true). At the very least we want to be entertained by flashy saber fights (well I only speak for saberists on this comment), filled with variation and eye openeing jaw dropping moves.

I and many others have never thought it was fun to kill noob spammers. what yoiur describing is exactly that... a noob spammer.

Not a dedicated master of spam...

these are the trolls that bore most of us. Can raven do anything about it? All they could possibly do is make the risks associated with those moves higher somehow... Look at the DFA. Before it was spammed endlessly... Now? I rarely see anyone do it more than once if ever.

Why? well some say it's nerfed, these same people told us all to adapt and get better at countering it... but now how is it I can land it plenty? Is it because I am using like it's intended? As a finishing move? I think so.


We all have to die, the only question is... Do you want it on your feet? or on your knees...
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Old 05-23-2002, 12:07 AM   #34
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People who use backstab alot aren't looking for a good saber fight. They are looking to get the most kills that they can in the least amount of time. In most other FPS type games, those two things go hand in hand to some degree. To get alot of kills, let alone alot of quick kills, you have to be very skilled at a certain number of things, aim, timing, prediction, and so on. Granted there are exceptions (people who use the BFG all the time in Q3, the awp all the time in CS, Gluon in HLDM, use whatever fruity noob cannon Unreal has, etc).

Now, in JK2, the most powerful attack can be performed over and over again, can't be countered if you are near it, requires almost no skill to perform, and is intended to be a defensive move. The way it is now, an ass fighter won't even leave himself open until after the move is done carving a near 360 degree swath around him, and he can't even pull off the move unless he is right near someone.

With blocking having been raised so high, you would expect the padawan charging around backwards swinging the lightsaber around to be an easy kill, not to be leading the server in kills, because every time you try to attack him, he can trigger a move that has the potential to kill you right away.

And pull-backstab? Come on already. Every time you pull someone and make them fall, face the other way and then do 400 damage, you make black baby jesus cry.

I can't imagine how you think that would not be lame. You are, however, free to do it all you like. I in turn, am entitled to call you a lame ass when you do it. Leading the server does not always make you a good player. Try watching two ass fighters battle it out sometime. When I type "WOW DOOD YUO R TEH BEST!", I'm not whining. I'm laughing.
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Old 05-23-2002, 12:17 AM   #35
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All sarcasm aside, I still don't see why people complain about "move spammers".
It's because they're lazy, H.E.

Tonight, a young fellow by the name of "OneDrop" was whining in a Blueyonder duel server about being light stance backstabbed by someone else (not me, this time) and asked the spectators at large whether they thought it was lame.

I responded that there was a counter to almost every move, (even if it involves NOT BEING THERE TO BE HIT, ie. jumping out of the way.)

He promptly asked me to teach him how to avoid it. I replied that he should learn it for himself.

He spent the rest of the game calling me a "c*cksuckARZ!!!1" for not telling him. He accused me of hating newbies. He accused me of sleeping with farm animals. He accused me of being skilless.

Typical, I thought, and proceeded to defeat him in as many annoying ways as possible.

But that's why in my opinion. They're lazy, they want everything handed to them on a platter. They don't want to build up hand-eye co-ordination, they want the game to be slower and easier instead. They don't want to learn counters to the various techniques, they want the techniques to be weaker. They don't want to lose because they haven't practiced enough, they want to win despite their astonishing lack of skill. Raven tried catering for them in 1.03 IMO. But Raven must realise... whiners will never go away, no matter how much you appease them, because there will always be people who have played more, and will beat them. And then they'll whine.


[FW] Spider AL
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Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
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Old 05-23-2002, 12:27 AM   #36
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It's because they're lazy, H.E.

I responded that there was a counter to almost every move, (even if it involves NOT BEING THERE TO BE HIT, ie. jumping out of the way.)

He promptly asked me to teach him how to avoid it. I replied that he should learn it for himself.
I actually blame stupidity more than laziness, and sometimes ignorance. Because of the possibility of the third option, I generally try to explain things to people--especially the ones that ask. If I can help create one better player...well I'm doing more than most

Plus my style does not lend itself to spamming, so nothing I have told people can really be spammed with any success. I don't even know how to be an 'ass-fighter' and I've never done backstab or DFA...once in a while I do the medium special, but it's only on accident. I actually usually do pretty well, on the NF servers, usually more wins than losses


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Old 05-23-2002, 12:59 AM   #37
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One thing I have noticed about this game is that there is a major gap between the good and the not so good. The "average" players seem to be fewer in this game than others.

I have been playing FPS's since DOOM. I have played just about every major FPS released since then, and honestly, I have never seen such a huge difference in the overall level of skill between players as I have in this game.

Pretty much any game that came out over the last 4 years fell into one of two categories:

1-Space Marines with big crazy guns.
2-Terrorists with sniper rifles and machine guns.

If you have played online for some time it's not too difficult to pick up one of these games and within a few hours, be quite good at it. Sure you will not be the best, but you will be good enough to make the top 3 of most servers you play on.

But in this game you have people that pay attention to what works, and those who do not.

Jedi Outcast, with the combination of guns, sabers and Force powers really makes you think about what tools you use to attack and defend yourself. No other game makes you ponder "If my opponent uses "X", I better counter with "Y".

There is no "run around the map picking up rockets and armor" strategy.
There is no "spawn camp the other team with a PSG-1" strategy.

Honestly, I have tried teaching players how to stop the moves I use. I have stopped during the middle of a match and told them exactly what to do when I come after them in the next few seconds. Hell, I (and about 900 others) have even posted the counters for this or that move in these threads. Still responses tend to be nothing but flames, cries and insults.

Half of the players are sick of not being able to get the upper hand. The other half is tired of repeating themselves to those who do not wish to listen.

Oh well, I think I am going to go drink a Foster's, climb up a tree and pee on the heads of some Stormtroopers...
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Old 05-23-2002, 01:09 AM   #38
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Originally posted by Spider AL
But that's why in my opinion. They're lazy, they want everything handed to them on a platter. They don't want to build up hand-eye co-ordination, they want the game to be slower and easier instead. They don't want to learn counters to the various techniques, they want the techniques to be weaker. They don't want to lose because they haven't practiced enough, they want to win despite their astonishing lack of skill. Raven tried catering for them in 1.03 IMO. But Raven must realise... whiners will never go away, no matter how much you appease them, because there will always be people who have played more, and will beat them. And then they'll whine.
I agree with you more or less. DFA didn't need to be made useless. They just needed to fix the "I can still kill you with the tip of my saber as I pull it out of the ground" problem, and make it so you couldn't turn so much in the air. That way when padawan move spammer does the move for the 11th time in a row and goes flying by you, you could set up to counter him, instead of him turning to kill you as you move in. Instead they made it rather useless. I barely see anyone doing the move anymore. Instead, I see people running around backwards, and now, they dont need any timing, any set up, and they can do MORE damage than before, and with a smaller window of vunerability.

Even DFA spammers still would be involved in, you know, actual saber-vs-saber fighting stuff in between doing the move from time to time. With backstab, it's just people backing up while going for the instant kill over and over. Or, the slightly evolved version, the pull and backstab. Granted, this takes more set up, but it still seems so wrong to pull someone down, then turn around to pull of the most powerfull move in the game.

ERROR!! ERROR!! DOES NOT COMPUTE!!

I would much rather have the back attack be an unbreakable defense move that knocks the attacker backwards a little, thus letting the person who was attacked turn around and fight, then have the back attack be an unblockable death stab.
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Old 05-23-2002, 08:10 AM   #39
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Hmm I like it

the defense move concept. give it some mediocre damage (higher by a few points than the normal hit of the style), but make it knock someone back a yard or two...

In fact if memory serves this is more or less how these moves used to actually work!

before all strikes would knock youback if they where powerful enough. blue hits would just tap you slightly to the side (barely noticable), yellow would do a bit more, and red could be used to knock you off of catwalks.

Now since hit or miss you stay put when your hit, you will always take full damage from certain combos so long as your in the wrong place at the right time.

For example: before when a blue backstab was done to you, it would knock you back and away from the backstabber, doing some decent damage but not so much to make anyone cry about it.

the only way to inflict fatal damage with the blue backstab was if the person was backed into a corner.

thus I am taking back one of my orriginal opinions. see I used to feel that 1.03 didn't enable ass fighting, and it srpung up cause someone suggested it on this forum. But now I realize that even before 1.03 sure you could do it, and even kill with it like now, but the hit would knock even a fallen enemy away durring the first second of the hit, thus doing only initial damage.

Next time you get backstabbed watch how the damage is done to you. It happens very fast, but it happens in quick spurts. Not sure how much for each milisecond or whatever (though artlifex I think has the numbers somewhere on his site). But there is definately kind of pulse to how the damage is done.

Another example of this is in the red stance downward chop. If I chop at you, and you arn't defensive I can actually hit you for more damage than you normaly get for a red stance chop. Effectively hitting you like one and a half times. This can actually turn into a near one hit kill against an enemy who just spawned!

Before you would be knocked away the second you took damage and thus only take the base daage unless uyou were backed into a wall or corner.

We need to bring back this knocking affect I think.

I bet it would even curb a LOt of pull stabbers.

and again to all who think people are just whining when we say things about the backstab in particular, and possibly saber throw. Understand this. Just because YOU and a few mythical others can counter it, doesn't mean it is fair/balanced properly, or what most of us would agree was on ravens mind when they made the game.

If you think raven intended folks to be running around backwards or using exploits like the pull backstab/sweep every second or two, don't you think somebody would have said somehting to that effect by now? Don't you think they would have given us less things to do besides just those two techniques?

this Is just a game, and thus peoples concept of winning at any cost is as easily laughable as people who take this game too seriously. If it's just a game then me asking you nicely to stop spamming pull backstab shouldn't be like a request to be spammed with that for the rest of the map. Hell I can't wait till the day I put up a dedicated server on this game and kick and ban pull stab spammers (do it once ina while fine good for you, do it four times ina row and we need to talk...).

then I can listen you these same people whine that I am a loser for kicking them off a server I OWN, that I PAY for...

anyone who knows me will attest that I try my damndest to play fair, and if I DO set up a server everyone is invited to come and play sometime, just follow my rules and nobody will get hurt know what I mean? If you don't, please foreward me your IP adress so I can ban you ahead of time and save us all some trouble LOL.


We all have to die, the only question is... Do you want it on your feet? or on your knees...
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Old 05-23-2002, 08:29 AM   #40
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Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok
All sarcasm aside, I still don't see why people complain about "move spammers".

Honestly, to me a person who does the same thing over and over with little or no variation, is quite frankly, one Hell of an easy kill.

"Hey, here comes Bob, I bet he is going to try and zap me with lightning".

"Yep, I thought so, funny how Bob never notices I turn blue when he zaps me".

"Man I bet Bob is getting tired of getting knocked down every time he tries to do that".

"Oh well, time to stick my ass in his face and jab my sword into his head".

"Silly Bob, I bet he'll do that again".
That's great if you use nothing but absorb.
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