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Old 05-24-2002, 06:08 PM   #1
Dark Begger
 
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I Hate 1 Hit Kill Moves!!! Get Rid Of Em!

I HATE 1 HIT KILL MOVES!! I don't want to duel thinknig I could die on the first hit! I want the game to be styled around MY STYLE of play so that I can't lose to those 1 hit kill move users! Because in real life when I make a mistake I should be given another chance! I don't want to move out of the way of the 1 hit kills! I want the 1 hit kill users to be vulnerable so that I can kill them easily so I win! wah wah wah! It makes dueling less fun for me! Even though it's fun for them, I want it to be fun for me! wah wah wah! I will not change, I want you to change it Raven mommy! wah wah wah! I want it so I never lose and that I always win! If I lose that means someone is being cheap! and I'm going to report it here! wah wah wah


(sorry...hehe..just a post with a teeeny bit of sarcasm)
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:22 PM   #2
DannyJAllTheWay
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OK... Simmer down. One-Hit Wonders are lame. It shows that you have no skill whatsoever. What saber style do you use in single player? That's right buddy. Medium is for the people with skills. In all seriousness, One hit moves are for n00bs. I'm not kidding you. You run around spamming the same move, hoping to get lucky and make contact. If you do make contact, that's the end of the match. Where's the skill? Maybe that's why YOU, who is so quick to make fun, are Bantha Fodder. Funny though, cuz there are some skilled people who spam One-Hit Wonders. That I don't get...
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:25 PM   #3
Darth Webster
 
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Heeheehee...
Rather well put. I gotta say, I'm not a big fan of the one hit wonders. You know, the guys that have got the big kill moves down and use nothing else. But, ya know what? I changed my style, move quick, and take great satisfaction in slicing those guys to ribbions!
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:36 PM   #4
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hmm..I see

yes I'm bantha fodder...funny how YOU base my skill level on my posts on the message board? LOL

Well, in response to your 'bantha fodder' remark..

go to www.teamwarfare.net

go to 1v1 nf ladder

find my name.

now go to CTF ff ladder

find my clan (SofD)

okay. there.

Now, they are lame? Luck hits you say? Well if they are luck hits, there shouldn't be a problem because 'luck' would mean occasional. Therefore a skilled player like yourself can and should be able to take the 1 hit wonders most of the time. Oh, and did I say I used 1 hit kills? I dont' think I mentioned that in my original post.

Oh and medium being the best stance? That's hardly the case. Maybe now in 1.03 it is, but during 1.02, heavy stance required the most skill. Like I told anyone in a server, use heavy stance, beat me with it, and then call it all luck. Granted DFA was bugged with the 1 hit kill AFTER it landed, but the rest of heavy took the most skill and timing. It was the slowest, and at full health, still took 2 hits to kill, just like your medium. After each heavy attack, you are left vulnerable. To not die from using heavy mode and NOT I repeat NOT using DFA does require skill.

As for 1.03, medium IS where it is at, but medium ALSO has a 1 hit kill move, which I'm sure you're aware of. The fact that you die from 1 hit moves shows that you need to touch up on your dodging skills and rely less on the auto block.

I'm not flaming you, please just have some solid evidence before calling me a Bantha Fodder. lol
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:39 PM   #5
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hmm...

Oh, and hey, join a JK2 tournament, like the 2v2 hosted on TWL, and DON'T use 1 hit kills. We'll see who comes up on top. me or you. And I BET you that the prize money (or just prize) will go to a 1 hit kill move user.

It's part of the game, adapt to it, counter it.

Don't like it? Make a mod and take those aspects out.
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:46 PM   #6
DannyJAllTheWay
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Right, right. Heavy's sweet. All skilled people use it. I give up. This is pointless. I don't base people on their rank on the site. I just thought that it was funny how you were making fun of some people. So I exploited, what would be considered, a flaw of yours in order to defend those people. Anyhow, I don't mind heavy all that much. It's just when people abuse it by spamming is when I get angered. Anyhow, I'm off. Not to return to another post about this sorta thing.
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:48 PM   #7
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If you choose to primarily use one hit kill moves and can legitmately pull them off, there is nothing wrong with that, a skilled player can see them coming a mile away

But if you are one of those who script-bind moves and use nothing but your binds, then you are a skilless retard, who is just ruining the game for the majority, people who actually enjoy the idea of being able to lightsaber combat on their computer.

I just leave the server when a script monkey shows up.
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:53 PM   #8
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That's not what I'm saying, all great players do not use it. Actually, I found a partner for the 2v2 tourny who is medium saber based. This allows for various different counters. Medium does require a LOT of skill, but same with HEAVY. It's all I'm trying to say. And sorry if I was making fun of those people, but I go overboard sometimes when people complaing about the 1 hit kills. I think if they spent less time posting on here, and more time actually in the game finding ways to defend against it (get a friend, make him use the 1 hit moves, find his flaws) Then you will be more skilled than ever, I'm not saying they are unskilled, I'm saying that if 1 hit kills are the only thing that they cannot defend against, if they learn to defend against it, They will be considered VERY skilled. Imagine if all users knew how to counter the 1 hit kills. Boom, instant toning down of backstab/sweep spamming WITHOUT a patch. people will just be more cautious when using it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that everyone in here should rely on their own skill rather than Raven to change these things. Everyone has the potential, no one is a n00b to FPS that's on here. I'm sure nearly EVERYONE has played JK1 here also. So everyone is or can be good. It just requires a little less asking for Raven to change things, and a little more going in the game and figuring out counters.

I tried to make this as UNOFFENDING as possible, please dont' start flaming me. I do not intend to hurt anyone.
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:56 PM   #9
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very true..one hit kills are part of the game. learn to counter them...and if u get killed by one hit wonders thats your fault for sucking bad enough to put yourself in that position. I kill people with one hit moves all the time because people put themselves in that situation where i can do it. If oppertunity presents itself..take it. or it could cost u YOUR life. now...people that run around backwards all the time is a diff. story. those people are the ones that suck and have no skill. but if u can duke it out for a bit and THEN use a one hit kill cus say someone stayed behind you too long or sumthing..go for it. but dont spam..i use roll/pull backstab or backspin maybe once or twice a duel, and kicking is another way to knock ur oppenents health down or knock him down and lunge..hehehe. but dont piss on the people that kill u with one hit moves..its ur fault for putting yourself in their one hit kill range. like it or leave it.
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Old 05-24-2002, 06:58 PM   #10
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hmmm..

yes..scripts are annoying...I'm not sure if this was a script, but I was in a duel a while back, and I got into a saber lock, and was pushed down to the ground in less than a second.. I was clicking pretty rapidly...didn't know how he did that.. But I thought it was just a bug.

But just to say, Scripts are like...hacks right? giving players an unfair advantage (like OGC in CS). It's bound to happen, people will make them. It has nothing to do with the actual move itself. So asking Raven to take away the move doesnt' really help, for there will be some other script to give players an upper hand again.

It's sad but true, just find a couple good servers where there are regulars on, and have some good battles with them.

Our clan servers are quite lamer free, so I go on every now and then and have a good time talkign to the regulars.
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Old 05-24-2002, 07:14 PM   #11
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Re: hmmm..

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
Our clan servers are quite lamer free, so I go on every now and then and have a good time talkign to the regulars.
Just refusing to play seems to be the only recourse when a script monkey comes along. I own on the public servers, but will if some retard comes along who only runs backwards, I punish them once or twice and then bail. If a binder is there and refuses to do anything but binded 1-hit kills, then it's time to go.

I really only play from home, which is pretty nice with the cable modem, but I do not know any LAN groups... How do you get hooked up with a clan? I would like to see how my skills add up against other like minded players.
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Old 05-24-2002, 07:18 PM   #12
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I was playing on a server recently, just watching a big group of people duke it out in FFA. A new player comes in, runs into the middle of the fracas and does a medium backstab. The thing is when he did it he spun around and did the move three times without missing a beat! Looked like an audition for a frickin ballet. Wassup with that? Is that a scripted thing he did? Lately I've been seeing a bunch of people doing some impossibly fast manuevers with some finishing moves (i.e. spinning faster than the Blue Stance even allows). Can I assume that they are scripting that stuff? Hope not. Don't want to quit the game because of a few bastiches.
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Old 05-24-2002, 07:20 PM   #13
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Nice to see an understanding gamer.

If you are interested in our clan, just come to:

www.clansofd.net

fill in an application form with your email address. And instantly you are a 'provisional' member. DregunFly (the founder) will email you about practice days and times, where you can show up for some CTF fun.

There are 2 PRIVATE dueling servers, and 1 public dueling server, where the atmosphere is kept pretty friendly.

Come check us out when you have the time, I must say, joining this clan was a good move for me, the clan I used to be in was not this active. People post in the forums all the time and set up their own little training rooms to practice dueling it. All in all it's about a bunch of internet found friends having fun.
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Old 05-24-2002, 07:21 PM   #14
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Our server must be down...try clicking on it later on...dunno what's going on.
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Old 05-24-2002, 07:43 PM   #15
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there already is a topic about 1 hit kill moves on this exact same page of the forum.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...threadid=56306

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Old 05-24-2002, 08:26 PM   #16
Ferox
 
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the dfa and backstabber spammers dont bother me.. i can get out of their way and get behind em.. rofl ive had guys keep running backwards towards me and KEPT doing so after i threw my saber at em 3 times and the 4th one killed em rofl.


and when someone dfa spamms i just get out of the way come in from the side and wack em.


what gets me is the kicks.. no way to stop em and people can use scripts to make kicking unbelievably cheap.
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Old 05-24-2002, 08:29 PM   #17
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One-Hit Wonders are lame. It shows that you have no skill whatsoever.
If you continually get killed by 1 hit then it shows that you have no skill. Cause you have no clue how to adapt to others tactics. So you prefer to call them newbies and lamers instead, that's much more convenient than using your brain.


Gnaa!
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Old 05-24-2002, 09:29 PM   #18
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Angry

1-hit-kill is a part of the game! Learn to evade it instead of crying like babies!

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Old 05-24-2002, 09:52 PM   #19
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1-hit kills SHOULD be in this game, its 1-hit UNBLOCKABLE kills that shouldn't....

If I chop someone down the back they shoud die in one hit. If someone attacks me with a spinning/flying move from the front I should be able to block it.

Lightsabers don't burn you, they slice you. But this unblockable stuff needs to go is all.
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Old 05-24-2002, 09:52 PM   #20
KnightHawk420
 
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Re: I Hate 1 Hit Kill Moves!!! Get Rid Of Em!

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
I HATE 1 HIT KILL MOVES!! I don't want to duel thinknig I could die on the first hit! I want the game to be styled around MY STYLE of play so that I can't lose to those 1 hit kill move users! Because in real life when I make a mistake I should be given another chance! I don't want to move out of the way of the 1 hit kills! I want the 1 hit kill users to be vulnerable so that I can kill them easily so I win! wah wah wah! It makes dueling less fun for me! Even though it's fun for them, I want it to be fun for me! wah wah wah! I will not change, I want you to change it Raven mommy! wah wah wah! I want it so I never lose and that I always win! If I lose that means someone is being cheap! and I'm going to report it here! wah wah wah


(sorry...hehe..just a post with a teeeny bit of sarcasm)
Yeah 1 hit kill kinda sucks as it is currently.

"I want the game to be styled around MY STYLE of play so that I can't lose to those 1 hit kill move users! Because in real life when I make a mistake I should be given another chance!"

ROFLMAO. You should be given a second chance in real life? And just how exactly do you figure you have such rights?

"I want the 1 hit kill users to be vulnerable so that I can kill them easily so I win!"

Yeah I agree with that, the 1 hit killers aren't vunerable as they should be for such a devastating move. If you get pull/backstabbed your just facked without absorb. And if that happens and you do manage to get up, then you have little or no chance of a counter attack. It is just wrong.
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Old 05-25-2002, 12:20 AM   #21
Keyan Haylcron
 
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Here's my take on the 1 hit kill. I consider myself a very honorable fighter. I salute, make sure the other person is healed and ready, and I NEVER attack those who are clearly a) having trouble or b) with a text box over their head. I will fight without the move until I see someone come at me backwards swinging without a purpose. I will then kill him/her and then resume my normal fighting posture. Some people are in it for kills, others for fun. We just have to put up with those who would rather kill at random.
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Old 05-25-2002, 06:28 AM   #22
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"I Hate 1 Hit Kill Moves!!! Get Rid Of Em!"

Ya, and while we are at it, let's redo all the Star Wars movies because those light sabers (lasers extending from a base out to a fixed length) cut through all materials! That's just wrong! Just think how long that fight between obiwan and darth vader could have lasted without one hit kills! that movie could have been extended 20 minutes just from that fight scene alone, not to mention another 8 hours from every one hit saber kill and one shot blaster hits!!

Lasers should do no more damage than a wooden spoon! I am ready to get a petition together for this - who's with me!
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:12 AM   #23
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This isn't the movie, this is JK2 MP.
And JK2 is an arcade action game. and Arcade action= fast, frenzic, exciting fun and tons of action.

Too much realism in an arcade game is bad! Just look at the difference in flight sims, some of em are just arcade, everybody can fly those planes, it's fun, and played by many players.
And you have those hardcore, "read the 300 page manual before flying" flight sims, it's fun for those who dig it, but they don't play it for the action, they play it cuz they love flying, and they usually sit in their planes for over 20 minutes without doing anything else than looking at the scenery.

Now JK2 isn't supposed to be like that. You want a Jedi Simulator that's incredibly realistic to the movie's fighting: go create one. Raven wanted to create a fun arcade game, nothing more nothing less.

We should step down from the "more realism is better" point of view. We should concentrate on a way to combine a bit of realism and fun/action/arcade together. But the main focus should be on the fun/action/arcade part, because this is a game. It's supposed to be fun.

Just look at JK1: during saberfights people were swinging in the open air (due to the lag-thing), gunners weren't aiming at their opponent, they were aiming where they'd most "likely" be, people were going as fast as lightning, no realisme at all!! But a lot of people are still, to this very day, playing JK1 MP. And JK1's like.. 4 years old!! (you might not've liked it, but a lot of people still do).
Why do people like it= not because of it's amounts of realism, but because it's fast as hell, and it's hetic and frenzic and it has a LOT of action. They love it because it's a fun game!

I don't care if Kyle suddenly turns up with lightsabers attached to his feet, if it's a real great succes and a lot of action and fun and everybody really loves it: let him fight with his feet. It's a game, everything should be focused on the fun part.

It's a game, everything should be focused on the fun part, not realism. If realism adds to the fun= great. If it doesn't, leave it out.

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Old 05-27-2002, 03:05 PM   #24
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hmmm

Some of you missed the sarcasm which I implemented there..but whatever. It's all good :P I don't care about 1 hit moves, I use em, and they're fun to use and win with. I play in ladders mainly to win. I can just imagine Luke saying it now...

"hey Vader, no sabering the head, because I will die in 1 shot. What fun will that be? Oh and also, no cheap tactics!"

lol..wouldn't that just be hilarious.

hahahaha..Im' bored. lol
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Old 05-27-2002, 03:52 PM   #25
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The thing is when he did it he spun around and did the move three times without missing a beat! Looked like an audition for a frickin ballet. Wassup with that? Is that a scripted thing he did?
i wouldn't necessarily call that a script. either he has a really high sensitivity that enables him to spin really fast like that, or his sens is low while dueling, and when its time to use that move, he probably has a button bound to /sensitivity 30 or something. Using scripts and using binds are totally different things. well not totally different, but i hope the majority of you get what i'm trying to say. call it lame, call it queer, but it comes down to just one cvar.

Quote:
Now JK2 isn't supposed to be like that. You want a Jedi Simulator that's incredibly realistic to the movie's fighting: go create one. Raven wanted to create a fun arcade game, nothing more nothing less.
sar·casm Pronunciation Key (särkzm)
n.
A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule
Quote:
Lasers should do no more damage than a wooden spoon! I am ready to get a petition together for this - who's with me!
Ok, lemmie get this straight...We should play a game, called JEDI KNIGHT, that uses lightsabers intended to do as much harm as a baseball bat? c'mon! they're lightsabers! They're supposed to do damage in one kill. That is, if the other saber isn't deflected or blocked. And i know...i know....There are one hit kills that are easily exploited and spammed and used far too much that cannot be blocked. But just think about it...what would the game be like if there weren't one hit kills? and the saber strength was reduced to that of a baseball bat? it would be pretty boring. And the sad thing is, people would still bitch about it. Raven did make a fun game. It has its flaws, but its still fun to play.
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Old 05-27-2002, 03:58 PM   #26
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oh and begger, whats your name on the no force ladder. either i'm blind and don't see it or its something different. i want to challenge you one of these days.
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Old 05-27-2002, 04:48 PM   #27
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Just one thing we should all think about: One hit kills add more realism to the game, that's true,

BUT does that added realism mean it's gonna be more fun?

I say no, because one hit kill moves in a game are usually crap. Just look at the DFA, the majority of people complained about it, and Raven took it out. Now that's fine, but now they added another 1 hit kill move, the backstab, and now most people are complaining about that move.

Does adding more 1 hit kill moves, just because it's more "like the movies" or more realistic, solve the problem and make the game more fun?
No, because most players are against one hit kill moves. (just look at the most complaints about the patches:
1.02: DFA move (Raven responded and tweaked the DFA)
1.03: people running backwards spamming that backstab

both 1 hit kill moves, both not fun.

Like I said before:
We should step down from the "more realism is better" point of view. We should concentrate on a way to combine a bit of realism and fun/action/arcade together. But the main focus should be on the fun/action/arcade part, because this is a game. It's supposed to be fun.

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Old 05-27-2002, 05:45 PM   #28
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i'm not saying make the game more like the movies and add a bunch of 1 hit kills that are "realistic" that people can spam over and over again. I was merely pointing out the fact that a lightsaber is a lightsaber. it cuts things. it melts things. If it were real, it would most likely kill in one swing. though the game as it stands now isn't fun for you, its fun for me, and lots of other people, dispite all the whining that goes on. Removing the DFA was good. Cause frankly i was tired of running up and trying to kill and then see the guy do a 180 with his saber buried and kill me like that. I don't know what raven was thinking when they beefed up the backstab but, oh well. I don't care really. The only thing thats funny about that move is how the saber doesn't have to be touching you in order to kill. its happened to me sometimes, and i've even done it myself on accident. but i'll do the backstab, and the guy will come at me on the other side and just get taken out. but, whatever, i'm straying a bit off topic here.
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:14 PM   #29
Nathan Wind
 
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like a bad genie movie, raven will see this and make its so.

people like you (sarcastic or otherwise) made 1.03

i cannot stand this kind of crap
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:23 PM   #30
XERXES
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Play the game, or dont play the game. Its that simple, if you are pissed about the one hit kill moves stop playing then. Myself, i occasionally use them when the situation presents itself...but you dont see me walking around backwards hoping for some random person to run behnd me. (i am not pointing fingers here, i am just using that as an example)

And btw...they arent that hard to avoid, when i see a guy jumping at me ready to dfa me, i just roll out of the way...problem solved. If i see a person running around backwards...i just toss the saber at them or run in for a couple quick hits and kill them.


like woah
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:23 PM   #31
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hmmm

I believe you are mistaken...

DFA - I do not know why you saying MOST people think it was crap. A more accurate answer would be MOST people on these FORUMS think it's crap. Think about it, why do people come to these forums anyways? I can tell you that the majority will say that they have something to complain about.

In the SofD Clan NF 1v1 duel server, there were a group of DFA users who branded themselves with the name: Drunkens

They were pure DFA spammers, and I must say, that new comers would complain. But then when they stayed for a while, and watched the regulars there play (who were medium users or NOT DFA spammers..) they noticed something...DFA DOES NOT OWN..lol..it was very easily avoidable, and that's why no one ever really complained about these Drunken. the only problem with DFA was when it hit the ground, and then someone died from it. Otherwise, DFA was perfectly fine.

Now with DFA nerfed, Backstab has emerged. Let me ask you, why was Backstab not complained about before? why was it not abused? Because saber damage was much more REALISTIC before. If you turned yoru back for a second, you were dead. Now in hte process of Raven trying to make this game, as you say "more fun than realistic" , it triggered this exploit as the sense of danger while running backwards has been diminished.

But once again, backstab right now is VERY EASILY avoidable. I personally do not see anything wrong with it. Yes, you may die from a lucky hit from time to time, but what's a game where you don't ever die?

Oh and as for twl, I withdrew from 1v1 nf sabers ..actually I told Tysoft to delete my name, because I had switched clans and had to switch names, I will be rejoining the ladder soon.
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:25 PM   #32
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lol

Nathan Wind, I can't believe you are trying to argue with me here...that post was supposed to be a complete mockery of those complainers who made 1.03 happen. I hate 1.03 with a passion, I loved 1.02. I'm just saying, that since they don't have DFA to complain about no more, they have to find some other thing to complain about. It's quite sad.
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:32 PM   #33
Nathan Wind
 
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i understood. i still cant see how raven chose the tweaks it chose. i think it has to do with the amount of newb bitching on this board.

i am worried that:

like a bad genie movie, raven will see this and make its so.
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:37 PM   #34
Vestril
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Mmmm, I love finishers, they mean I can hit the guys exposed area with little or no risk. So far I've only come across one guy who I would say was a skilled one hit killer. He used some interesting combinations that threw me off.

The trouble is that you can learn all of those combinations and how to avoid them after one or two tries. If someone beats me twice in the same night with the same finisher, I am really dissapointed with myself, or impressed with his impressive skills.

As for your suggesting that Heavy stance required the most skill prepatch I would disagree. Light Stance did--I never saw anyone with enough skill to make it work . Post-patch it's similar but more close to balanced. Medium and heavy are still the chosen stances for most of the best players, but light stancers are making their mark.

Quote:
DFA - I do not know why you saying MOST people think it was crap. A more accurate answer would be MOST people on these FORUMS think it's crap. Think about it, why do people come to these forums anyways? I can tell you that the majority will say that they have something to complain about.
I wish they had left it like it was pre-patch, just fixed the little collision bug and let that be that. Now it's rare that people use it and I get to hit their exposed backs


Vestril was here!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:39 PM   #35
BlackDove
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I think I'll just fall asleep on this super-uber-topic nr. 534597836459364593475629345723649523475293426...


There are only two constants in this world.
1. I kill you.
2. You cry for a lightsabre damage nerf.
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Old 05-27-2002, 06:43 PM   #36
Dark Begger
 
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lol

true Nathan Wind..I was trying to make it sound as satirical and completely sarcastic as possible...but I don't know how Raven will interpret it..
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