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Old 05-25-2002, 01:59 AM   #1
QuietSith
 
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Angry Refund over ... send it COD!

Well, seeing that 1.03 pretty much killed the game, and I've had it longer than 30 days.

How about us anti-1.03 people send the game back COD to LucasArts. Even if they reject it, it'll send a clear message - don't screw up games and balances with patches. And - keep supporting your game; i.e. try talking to the community once in awhile and get real feedback instead of slapping together useless forums that you, obviously, never read.

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Old 05-25-2002, 02:20 AM   #2
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How did 1.03 ruin the game? What is so wrong that you don't like about the game that can't be corrected with a new patch? I agree they need to adjust some things whenever they release a 1.04 patch like if someone has a gun and you hit them with a saber, they should die every time but I certainly don't think the game is ruined.


B O W E N
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Old 05-25-2002, 02:34 AM   #3
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Ya know I must have read 100's of posts like this by now. I can usderstand you dont like it anymore, but what causes the ire behind all the flames & whining? You dont like it thats cool. Go express your opinion to LEC in a civil manner. but why so damned angry?

(I still love the patch. You folks just need to adapt.)
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Old 05-25-2002, 06:49 AM   #4
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How about you uninstall the patch and play on v1.02 servers...
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Old 05-25-2002, 07:13 AM   #5
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HELL

you can even set up a server so it runs LIKE 1.02 but is still 1.03 enabled.

some things will still remain such as no turning durring the red DFA for example. But you can fix a lot of the damage setting etc I am pretty sure.

Just most people don't know how.

i saw a thread on this just a day or two ago in the appropriate forum for server hosts.

go look it up there. Either make a server that runs like this, OR find out who does.

I don't think many ARE running a server like this. But with 1.03 a LOT of admins didn't know they could completely configure servers the way most do now. and fewer still, know you can even tweak the server to run the game a LOT like 1.02. In fact about the only things you can't put back to normal are the animations of some attacks (DFA), and I think the Damage arc for sabers is harder to fix (though I could be wrong). However you can either raise damage with some modifier, OR at least reduce the blocking ability serverwide for sure (one of the two definately works).

just try and find the thread.

It should be on the first and second page in the right forum I am pretty sure...

However This is only my constructive criticism for people whining about 1.03. My destructive criticism for you would be calling you a whining so and so, with a few colorful metaphores... Ironically, a month or two ago you would have been calling all of us whiners for saying the game needed a patch or somehting... and now look who is whining?

sure maybe this isn't really a whine, but I'm not a LEC fanboy either. I am just sick of this crap... the subject of 1.03 vs 1.02 had just about died for a week or two, and now like weeds these threads are popping up all over the place again... Return your JKII, Spam raven with protesting pettitions, whine in the forums to ring back 1.02. It's old, it's dead... give it up... Either that or enjopy the damn SP game... or do as ewok said. The game doesn't suck, even if you feel the patch does. One bad patch CAN't ruin a game unless the patch is the only thing you can play (as in EQ for example).


We all have to die, the only question is... Do you want it on your feet? or on your knees...
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bowen
How did 1.03 ruin the game? What is so wrong that you don't like about the game that can't be corrected with a new patch? I agree they need to adjust some things whenever they release a 1.04 patch like if someone has a gun and you hit them with a saber, they should die every time but I certainly don't think the game is ruined.
You don't think the backstab is a problem when it dominates all other moves?

You have no problem with the nerfed kicked and dark force powers?

And you have no problem with the saber defense being so high it's like fighting AI vs. other players?
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok
How about you uninstall the patch and play on v1.02 servers...
Less and less of those to play on.
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:42 AM   #8
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Re: HELL

Quote:
Originally posted by Demangel
[B]you can even set up a server so it runs LIKE 1.02 but is still 1.03 enabled.
Cool.

Tell me how to make kick only one tap - restore dark force powers, and remove the backstab exploit.

I didn't know you could reverse all those changes in 1.03.

Please let us know.
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:50 AM   #9
Luc Solar
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Umm...you do realize that you're being a whiner, right?

Listen to yourself...

"Tell me how to make kick only one tap "

Just click it twice, okay? I doubt this is the end of the world...

As for the rest of the changes, well...I do think this is a bit passť by now. Starting a new "ThisPatchSucksIWantMyMoneyBack"-thread was cool and all about 2 weeks ago, but not anymore.


Got Honourz? Great.. I hope you choke on it!

I r0xx0r all j00 nooberz that mess with me. You nooberz suXor out of my way or I eat j00....

Most ridiculous Quote of the century: >)O(< ENmiTy: promoting mindless FFA and SD kills promotes disorderly conduct amoung the online community.
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:55 AM   #10
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He didn't say you could set everything as it was in 1.02, just most things - just because Demangel didn't directly mention the backstab doesn't mean it's "fixable". Yes the backstab is exploitable, yes the old DFA was exploitable, just leanr to play the game, and put up with the fact that someone BEAT you for a change, cheap tactics or not. If you are half as good as you think you are, and they beat you by cheap tactics, what does it matter? You're still good without the cheap moves, and you can feel smug in the warm glow that you are better than they are.

I spent an hour last night on a server where one person spent all their time kicking you over, saber throwing you and then slashing you as you got up. It was irritating, but I didn't complain, I just tried my best. In a straight fight I *might* have beaten them, and it would have been nice to know, but that's the way things are sometimes.

And at the end of the day, what does it matter how many kills you got? Sure it's nice to GET kills, and even nicer to be one of the top people on the server, just don't except it to happen all the time.
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:06 AM   #11
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Hrm .. I never had a problem with the heavy stance DFA in 1.02 .. it was highly avoidable.

The backstab on the other hand is pretty bad.

Go to most 1.03 servers and spec out the top score players.

This backstab issue is like someone using an auto-BFG in Q3. I'm sure ID would release a quick patch to fix that, if it were a problem.

As for being a whiner, no, I'm not.

It's the people who whined about 1.02 that helped push for a release of this POS 1.03.

I for one didn't want ANY changes in 1.02.

Now the game is basically totally different - it's basically mega-nerfed dark forces - super nerfed kicked (yes, it's very difficult with having to double tap) - ultra auto defense saber combat - with an exploit that's one of the worst I've seen in game history - the backstab.

The best move in a game shouldn't be from running around backwards and stabbing people. That's just silly and stupid.

It's very sad. JK2 1.02 was some of the most fun I've had in a game since Quakeworld rune/tf/dm. It truly required skill because everything was up to you - nothing automatic, nerfed, etc.

Since 1.03 there's simply no fun in the game anymore.
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luc Solar
As for the rest of the changes, well...I do think this is a bit passť by now. Starting a new "ThisPatchSucksIWantMyMoneyBack"-thread was cool and all about 2 weeks ago, but not anymore.
No one is forcing you to:

1. Read this thread.

2. Reply to this thread.
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:30 AM   #13
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Sorry, I didn't think I called you a whiner, and I certainly didn't mean it. OTOH I don't agree with complaining too much about things you hate about the patch.

OTOOH (or the original hand :> ) I find that I prefer the new double tap for kick. Yes it's harder to do, yes it less reliable (for me at least), but overall it works for me. Odd I know. I think the damage should have stayed as it was though. Oddly enough, I also like the new saber blocking. I HATED it at first, wanted nothing more than to strangle the idiot responsible. Then I played for a while. Then I got used to the way it works. Now I know, it's more fun, making a saber fight more cinematic and interesting (and funny to watch blue stance spinners bounce off your defence before you splatter them). It is another change I think is for the better (but I'd have been equally happy without it)

I agree about the backstab being more powerful than it should be, but the people running around backwards are surprisingly easy to avoid (once you have identified them), and only the pull/bs'ers are a problem. The simplest fix would be to prevent backstab/swing from hitting people on the gound or getting up. (I saw this in another similar thread).

Your last point, the one about the DS powers, could you expand on that please? I'd like to know exactly what they changed (for better or worse), since I normally play LS, and never had much experience with the dark side of the force.
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:45 AM   #14
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Thanks for being civil, I appreciate it.

Yah, the dark force drain is really nerfed - it takes up so much force energy to use, it's almost non-functional.

It used to be a great way to kinda even the playing field - and strangely enough, it was a counter-balance to another dark force power - force lightening.

If you noticed in 1.02 the lightening people didn't run around and kill as much - and there's a reason. When someone did a force drain it would knock out most people's force powers in the area - including those using lightening.

Have you noticed the strong amount of lightening force useage in 1.03? If not, check it out the next time you play.

The other one is force grip"

It used to be that so a person could pretty much grab you and choke you to death - or carry you to a ledge and drop you off.

I never used force grip much but I found it fun and challenging to fight against, because there was a high chance of dying fast if something wasn't done about it immediately - it made the game fast paced and aggressive.

It was easier to kick back in 1.02 and easier to be kicked - so there was much more challenge as well - and kick was probably the ultimate, 'when all else fails' last resort move - easily avoidable, yet very effective when performed.

That's the key to balance - make things avoidable yet powerful when used properly - not nerf them to the point of becoming barely useful.

That's what I don't understand - people think when I complain about things, it's because I exploited these forces/kicks/etc.

On the contrary, I found them fun to defend against because they were challenging.

The same goes for saber combat. The lack of ultra defense in 1.02 was more challenging than 1.03.

In 1.03, aside from backstabs, a person can literally be standing still and rarely die. Try to kill someone who is just idling.

The new patch is simply boring to me - it requires less player ability and more management of automatic defense + ultra nerfed forces/moves (with the exception of backstab - the instant JK2 BFG).

It's like as if in Quake 3 they created a patch so the rail gun had sway, the rockets fire only every 3 seconds and move real slow, and you run out of steam when jumping too much, and you automatically dodged weapon shots from a certain distance.

Nerfing things just hurts the gameplay.

For instance, if the sabers were less defense oriented (like in 1.02) it wouldn't be so easy to go backstabbing people, mainly because you would have been always vulnerable in all situations when close to anyone with a saber - no auto defense.

In fact, from what it looks like, the backstab itself hasn't really changed, what has changed is the saber combat defense, which makes it so a backstab person can get real close (while automatically defending himself) and perform the maneuver.

In 1.02 the backstabber would probably have died 5 - 10 times before pulling off the move.

Hope that makes sense.

Last edited by QuietSith; 05-25-2002 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:58 AM   #15
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It does make sense, but it doesn't change the fact that I like some of the new changes. You don't that's fair enough. I suspect we'll never change each other's minds over THAT :>

Force Drain - I hadn't realised it had been crippled that much. I understood why it's cost had been upped (to match the reductions in Heal, which was supposed to be it's counterpart), but by the sounds of it, the change was too much. What about this: The cost of Drain is dropped, even blow that of v1.02, but to compensate for this, the rate at which it drains force power out of an opponent is slowed as well. The result is it still costs the same to fully drain a person as it did in 1.02, but takes a little more time. This allows people with poor reflexes (like me) to react to the drain and activate absorb, move away, etc. but pumps Drain back up to useful levels?

You didn't say what the change to grip was? Does it do less damage? If so, then it should go up, but I do not feel that you should be able to wave people around as fast as you can (or could).

There are more factors in the auto defence than simply standing still - do you primarily use blue stance? If so that might explain your problem. Blue stance almost never knocks away an opponents saber, especially if they use yellow or red stance. I think blue is more a counter style than a true style (use it to whip blows under theirs befopre pulling back out, that kind of thing), and in that respect it is rather weak. blue style also fails to block even the most pathetic blows - a solid blow sends your saber well out of the way and leaves you open. Now there actually is some advantage to using a stronger stance over a weaker one, rtaher than just hitting harder. OTOH, the blocking factor is perhaps smidgen too high (but tweaking futher might send it too low, etc...*sigh*)

PS: I *HATE* Quake3 - thos changes actually sound like they might make it fun to play. :>

EDIT: Didn't see the last section - the backstab has had it damage upped to the point of one hit kill, THAT'S why it's used all the time, no other reason. The backswing (yellow/red) has also had upped damage, but the animation hits at several points in the arc - resulting in the first knocking the saber away, and the others hitting unopposed.
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Old 05-25-2002, 12:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by QuietSith
Now the game is basically totally different - it's basically mega-nerfed dark forces - super nerfed kicked (yes, it's very difficult with having to double tap
Quote:
Originally posted by QuietSith
It was easier to kick back in 1.02 and easier to be kicked - so there was much more challenge
I didn't play this game before 1.03 was out, but from these posts and, well, everything I have read. I must say that double-tap added some challenge to the game. You said that yourself, that you find it hard, well, isn't that more challenging?

And about the backstabbers, ya I agree, they are lame above all definition but I've learned to counter them. Normally I just jump over them and kick them in the face. They aren't that hard to kill once you know what to do.

As I said earlier, I haven't played before 1.03, but I enjoy the game, I enjoy it alot. So IMO the game hasn't been ruined (since I play it, and I don't like alot of games )

Well, I hope you get a change of heart and start playing again
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Old 05-25-2002, 12:04 PM   #17
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Ah, yah we differ.

But say you and I were in charge of developing the next patch.

My proposal:

Let's outline everything that was 1.02 and 1.03.

Now let's make everything that was changed (except for the removal of cheats, and bugs) server-side options.

Now let's add those options so the admins can change it and the clients can filter them in or out.

What do you think of that?

P.S. It looks like you are from England. Seems most of my English gaming friends know how to carry on a more intelligent and civil conversation than my fellow American ones. A pretty sad statement for America.
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Old 05-25-2002, 12:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Now let's make everything that was changed (except for the removal of cheats, and bugs) server-side options.

Now let's add those options so the admins can change it and the clients can filter them in or out.

What do you think of that?
It's a very nice idea, but places an awful lot of variables in the hands of server admins. I personally wouldn't like to scroll through a list of 50+ variables to tune my server the way I liked, and it would also make it nigh on impossible to search for a server you liked (and when you did find one, it would be with a 450 ping)

That's the main problem with that idea, but allowing some of the more gross changes may be do-able, and that was the core of Demangels post. I believe one of your concerns (saber blocking) is DEFINITELY a server variable (I've seen it, but cannot remember it of the top of my head), but I have also seen that it may change it too far the other way.

However, the ability to change the costs of force powers (not use costs, but purchase costs) might be interesting (make it a text file the server reads in), as it would allow you to handicap force powers that you felt were too powerful. A more direct control over blocking chances (so you had a spread of values rather than on/off), and a way to increase/reduce the overall saber damage (working on a ratio basis) would also be nice, but my point about finding servers with settings you like stands :>

Quote:
P.S. It looks like you are from England. Seems most of my English gaming friends know how to carry on a more intelligent and civil conversation than my fellow American ones. A pretty sad statement for America.
That I have seen, but equally, I've seen a number of UK morons as well (no names mind, my absbestos underwear is in the wash). It just seems like America has more because, well it does. But only by numbers - I suspect the proportions are the same.

Last edited by Sutek; 05-25-2002 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 05-25-2002, 03:04 PM   #19
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We are not LucasArts. We are not Raven. Our forums are not 'slapped' together. Raven does read and occasionally post on this board.


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Old 05-25-2002, 03:21 PM   #20
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There isn't really any need to get nasty at all - a lot of people have complaints about the current patch, and feel that they have been stiffed by the lack of any *apparent* response form any party other than the players.

I would imagine Raven are feeling simlarly annoyed over how badly their hard work has been received. Lucasarts, like any large and successful company will always suffer accusations of not caring enough for their fans, but I can see that a lot of the changes in the patch were in fact due to them LISTENING to the fans, and giving them what they wanted...now if only the fans had known what they REALLY wanted...
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Old 05-25-2002, 03:42 PM   #21
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1.03 didn't ruin the game, its still great. its still a definate contender for Action Game of the Year.


It looks like this is my lucky day, I'll take the rapists for 200
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Old 05-25-2002, 03:53 PM   #22
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You say that double tap kick is extremely difficult? If it's that hard you must have slow fingers or something, because I find it just as easy to double tap jump than single tap. You just have to be fast. I also prefer double tap kick, because now I can more easilly jump over a small ledge without jumpkicking off it. You just need to cool down, and either adapt to the patch, or uninstall it. Because the majority of people are perfectly happy with the patch. Sure it's not perfect. Sure there are things that should be improved in the next patch. But it's no use coming here and whining about how you think the game is ruined and you want your money back. It's not going to do any good. Raven's not going to revert, and you're not going to get your money back. So learn to live with it.


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Old 05-25-2002, 04:15 PM   #23
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It DOES take getting used to, it took me some time before I was coordinated enough (red: practiced enough to be able to do it without conscious thought) to pull off the new kick.

Some people DO have serious objections to this patch. Fine. Some people come on here and whine about it. At least QuietSith makes some attempts to defend his position while here (see previous posts) in an articulate fashion, unlike others who just call you a n00b if you disagree.

Your point is valid, and I think the only reason I'm posting here so often is because I was enjoying the discussion with Queitsith before the forums appeared to crap out, and now I'm bored :>
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Old 05-25-2002, 06:07 PM   #24
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They're so avoidable

I've never had a problem with the 1.03 patch at all. The backstab is so easily avoidable. All you've got to do is keep an eye out on whats going on and if they get you its your fault and you should try to find a new tactic. If I see someone running at me backwards I either jump back or run into them and use them like a wall and run up them knocking them down then I kill them. Sometimes a simple backflip or backhandspring will kill them if your saber hits them. And I use darkside powers and find them just as good as the lite powers. You're probably just upset because you were once a drainaholic and now you can't be. But the blocking does need to be lowered a little bit to make it more like singleplayer. I was playing against a bot once with cheats enabled and I was going at him for 10 minutes until I finally hit him and killed him. I like long battles but not that long. Oh and if you see someone running at you backwards THROW YOUR SABER AT THEM and HIT PUSH. It'll do more damage and makes forces them to turn around and attack you. Just be smart stop whining and actually TRY playing the game. Yeesh.


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Old 05-25-2002, 06:40 PM   #25
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Roflmao. Ur willing to waste £30 to amke a useless point?
What do u hate aobut it so much. the sabering is better jsut ctf and backstab are the screwed. There's hardly nething wrong with it. get a life
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Old 05-25-2002, 06:42 PM   #26
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Angry BACK TO THE SUBJECT

The man was suggesting that we who are unhappy send the game back to Raven. Copy the damn thing and send the carcus back to them!

This has got to be one of the best ideas I've heard in a while.

In fact, I'm going to do it.

Who else has got the stones to do it? We should organize this thing and find a way to get the word out.


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66.98.176.218:29070 - Saber only, increased saber damage, reduced blocking, custom map rotation and more to come.
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Old 05-25-2002, 07:05 PM   #27
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ok you do that
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