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Old 08-01-2000, 03:20 AM   #1
Garindan
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Post A new editing person (maybe)

Can anybody tell me what i need to download to make jedi knight levels? I got some cd's and am going to put the stuff on them. First tell me what i need to build levels, then what i need to build characters.

thanks.
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Old 08-01-2000, 06:44 AM   #2
Boba Rhett
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You need to go to massassi.net and get a program called jed and read the tutorials there.
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Old 08-01-2000, 11:23 AM   #3
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The principle programs that one needs to begin JK/MOTS editing come basically from two sources:

The Code Alliance (formerly of "Dark Jedi.com")

www.code-alliance.com

These guys put together JED and a slew of other editing utilities for JK. Not all of them mind you, but quite a few.

Here you will be able to pick up:

-JED (level editor)
-various JED plug-ins (expansions and shortcuts to various JED functions designed by various folks)
-Mat Master2 (mat texture editor)
-BMut (BitMat BM editor)
-Conman (Gob/Goo extractor/container manager)

I would also mention "cogwriter" but cogs are merely scripting files that can be edited in any text program (notepad, wordpad, etc).

The latest "Unofficial JK Specs" (version 4?) can also be useful for editors, so I would get this too or at least bookmark the page it's on for future reference.

There are many others you might also find useful. Some tutorials are also included.

The next site I will list is probably not familiar to many JK folks:

www.magicforce.com this is the homepage of Ole's JKEdit. The "not as famous as JED" JK Editor.

No, this isn't "Force Builder" this is an editor that came out after JED, and I personally (and many I have talked to that have actually used it) consider it superior to JED in about every area imaginable. The interface is very userfriendly, simple, and intuitive. His site also includes demo programs, helpful utilities, and tutorials on using his program.

The ONLY things that JED has that JKEdit does not:

-JED has plugin support. So that means if Alex (the author) totally quits support and disapears off the face of the earth tomorrow (or maybe he has already? j/k), others can continue his work (at least to a limited extent), even without the source code, by writing various plugins for the editor.

-JED is fully featured as is, and doesn't require a registration. JKEdit you can use FREE FOREVER, however, you are limited to a specific number of "things" and vertices, etc. It doesn't say ANYWHERE in the program what these limits are, and I doubt anybody really knows. Only by registering do you get sent the "real full version." However you can freely make levels with the free version.

But otherwise, JKEdit is easier to use, is updated more frequently, and is much more intuitive than JED.

Now let's talk about Massassi.net.

In many ways Massassi has tried to be everything for everyone, and I think they deserve a pat on the back. ; )

Massassi is now generally known for it's JK/MOTS addon news. They also have a large collection of prefabs, addons, and editing tutorials (mainly related to JED, mind you). So once you get the programs from C-A and Magicforce, head on over there and look around. Don't expect to find much help with JKEdit there though.

IMHO, all you really need to make JK/MOTS levels is JKEdit... and maybe conman, but you probably want to try the other stuff out too.

In addition to JKEdit and JED, the only other level editor in existance for JK/MOTS is Force Builder. However, I wouldn't even bother.. the author of this editor discontinued it long ago, and apparently will never update it. He got pissed at some folks who mail bombed him or something back in the day. His was the first JK level editor released.

As to "characters" what do you mean, like models? If so, a new program was recently released, called "Joke" (it's a real program, despite the name) and I believe it's linked off of code alliance's page, which can model 3do's. Magicforce.com also has it's own 3do editor that was recently released (crippleware just like JKEdit though, try it free).

If you just mean skins, then Mat Master2, Conman, and a good paint program (Adobe Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro.. ) are all you need.

When making sounds for JK/MOTS, you can use just about any good sound program. Windows Sound Recorder doesn't create them properly, so use Goldwave or SoundForge or something.

Hope that info helped somewhat. ; )

Kurgan

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited August 01, 2000).]
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Old 08-01-2000, 10:53 PM   #4
Garindan
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Thank you, i just downloaded all that stuff (all the plugins too and tutorials) it was 47 megs! I still got alot more room on this cd, but since i got more i'll go try this out!
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Old 08-02-2000, 12:36 AM   #5
Garindan
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I get this error message when i put jedi knight in and double click the jed.exe, the thing comes up, and says error something (i forget). I need to know how to install Jed.

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Old 08-02-2000, 11:12 AM   #6
Garindan
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Never mind, i got a different editor for a different game and it's a bit easier to use (it's the Eradicator by accolade) i need to get the "hang" of it first probably before i go onto the more cooler editing program. Oh, does anybody here have the game Eradicator, it's similar to doom i guess (i only played doom for the n64). You can fully create the levels, but it's all done in DOS mode only. It took me forever to figure out how to open the editor.

Oh, and can somebody get these rogue squadron code beggers off my tail? I am not factor5. i thknk factor5's email is contactfactor5@factor5.com or something like that, go to www.factor5.com and they got tons of codes there for rogue squadron, but unforutnately they don't have the code that i was thinking they should have, the one that i do not know the name of.
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Old 08-04-2000, 02:44 PM   #7
BeastMaster
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Kurgan, I've been to www.magicforce.com , but I can't find any download links, just News, Screenshots, Tutorials, and FAQs.

How do you download?

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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb
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Old 08-04-2000, 04:11 PM   #8
Kurgan
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The link that says "EDITORS" is the one that lets you download his DF level editor (WEdit), his JK/MOTS level editor (JKEdit), and his JK 3do editor.

Also, this guy regularly responds to his email (if you are polite) so if you have questions not answered on his page, feel free.

Kurgan

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited August 04, 2000).]
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Old 08-07-2000, 10:23 AM   #9
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Actually, the sector limit on JKEdit is quite low. I imported my 450-some sector level into JKEdit from JED to do some lighting (which is the ONLY thing, imho, that JKEdit has on JED), and JKEdit told me I couldn't add any more sectors. This may seem quite high to beginning editors, but it's quite annoying later on.

Plus, look at what reasonably good levels JKEdit has created compared to what JED has. JKEdit: Jedi's High School; JED: Centrifuge, Fusion CTF, the Massassi Level Packs, Drazen Isle, Riot!, and so on. JKEDit is user friendly, but is a lot harder to use once you get into the architecture that the better JED created levels have. Yes, both programms get really boxy, and unorigional levels released by them, but the difference between JKEdit and JED is that JED releases levels of MUCH better quality, where JKEdit doesn't really get past those lower quality levels. JED may be more difficult to begin with, but in the end, it's worth it.
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Old 08-07-2000, 10:24 AM   #10
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Oh, and Kurgan, who did you talk to that considered JKEdit better than JED?
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Old 08-07-2000, 04:56 PM   #11
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Let me just say a few things before you simply assume I'm some crazy or Ole's ad man in disguise: ; )

JED has been around longer than JKEdit.. not by too much, but long enough to get plenty of exposure on many sites. Massassi and code-alliance (aka: "DarkJedi.com" they CREATED JED after all) in particular.

People have taken JED up and are afraid to take on another editor.. which I don't blame them for. But JKEdit is so easy to learn.. and I think most will find it's better.

The sad fact is, most would-be editors have not given JKEdit a share shake (or ignored it entirely).. because they dislike the idea of crippleware/registration.


Thanks for mentioning those limits, because I didn't know what they were exactly. That helps. Consider this an "evaluation" version, because that's what it is. The full version has no limits on anything.

My roommate (and good friend) and I have been messing with JED since it came out. We also tried out JKEdit. After much work and comparison, we found that JKEdit was much easier to use, much more logical and friendly, etc. We both consider it the superior program, and also feel it is kind of "dumb" that he charges for the full version.

Yes, the registration thing was a pain, and I think that is what intially turned most people off. They were using JED all day then JKEdit came out. "You have to register for $? Oh well, forget it, probably sucks anyway."

Just because not as many "good" levels have come out for it doesn't mean anything... it just means that more people are using JED.

Sure it doesn't help that the first levels released with JKEdit were pretty crappy (not the demo levels, the ones released by other authors).

But then again, the first levels created in JED weren't that hot either. People were just excited to be able to make ANYTHING for the game. In time, any editor can create good levels (well except an unfinished one like Force Builder), if the level author's using it are competent and dedicated enough.

How is the architecture in JKEdit, "hard"?

It's very intuitive. Just click on a few boxes, and extrude. You can do all kinds of stuff, and it's simple and intuitive. Yes, it's easier for beginners, but it's also FAST. Complicated levels can be made much more quickly. Yes, it's a different way of doing things than JED, but that doesn't mean it's not as good. I think it's better.

I like the way the buttons are arranged onscreen for easy access. You can customize those too. Plus you get all kinds of previews and editors. JKEdit has the ability for full 3d preview, even with animations! You can run a "test level" and "find error." Can you do that in JED? ; )

Not to diss Alex or anybody else who worked on JED (hey, it's a great program in its own right), but their 3d preview is bad. Sure I probably couldn't do any better myself, but Ole did in JKEdit.

I just find that JKEdit is better overall, and easier. It has tutorials and prefabs, etc just like JED, but they are on the author's site, because his doesn't have the established popularity that Alex's does.

Now on the issue of registration:

What you are saying is that a "serious" editor making tons of very complex, huge levels is going to run into roadblocks using JKEdit. Okay, then he needs to get the full version. But should he have to pay for the service?

Yes, I think that for a three year old game (that he didn't make), he shouldn't charge for an editor, especially when he's "competing" with a free editor. Even if he offers free upgrades (which he does) and supports the editor (which he does) with frequent releases, prefabs, tutorials and demo levels, it still is kind of a gip.

Cheap folks will just use JED, out of spite, unless they can "warez" Ole's program (which isn't nice), and if he ever quits the program, those who paid for it are screwed (no more improvements or fixes). However, if you want it bad enough.. just plunk down the change. I think it's worth it. But then again, the other half of me says.. why?

He is having his 3do editor also be a registration program. I think it's a bad idea.. again, his crippleware/pay program is competing with a somewhat lesser "free" program(s) that does the same thing.

Sure he might make a few bucks (it's a great editor, the best IMHO) off of people who want the full power of the program, but in the end, he's turning more people away who won't even TRY it because they don't want to spend any money.

Keep in mind alot of people are not even aware any other editor exists beyond JED.

JKEdit is updated alot more often than JED, and the author takes requests for improvements and fixes seriously and updates them quickly.

IMHO, if JKEdit, the full version, became free tomorrow, it would beat out JED, really.

I'm not saying that to put down anybody who likes using JED or anybody that worked on JED, but JKEdit is just a better program.

The only benefit that JED has over JKEdit that I can think of is the plug-in support, as I mentioned before and the fact that it is uncrippled free.

I am actually planning on buying it someday, although I wish the author would just release it free, as he's not going to make much money off of it anyhow.

Just because two people vs. X people say one thing is better doesn't mean a whole lot.

Thousands of people use the MSN Gaming Zone, but Gamespy Arcade is clearly better (just smaller because of lack of advertising and hasn't been around as long).

Qtracker is better than the old stand-alone gamespy was (IMHO) but more people used GS, because it had more advertising and been around longer (plus it had a huge team, QT was made by one guy).

More people played the Quake series than the Dark Forces series.. yet I consider the DF games more fun. It's all a matter of taste (and hype). 'More popular' doesn't always mean 'better.'

But, you never know. Hey, Winamp and Qtracker eventually became free.. I'm glad I didn't pay to register those. Maybe oneday JKEdit will become free.

Kurgan

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited August 07, 2000).]
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