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Old 07-12-2002, 12:11 PM   #1
ChangKhan[RAVEN]
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2 notes about 1.04 patch

A reminder to players and dedicated server runners: I recommend that you set g_saberTraceSaberFirst to "1" only for duel modes, set it to "0" for all other modes. This will make the saber combat last longer (because blocks work more frequently) in duel mode, but they will be shorter in other modes.

Also, for players: note than you should be able to push while knocked down now (like in SP). So if someone does knock you down and goes for the kill, you may be able to force-push them away if you're facing them.


Michael Chang Gummelt
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Jedi Academy
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Old 07-12-2002, 12:19 PM   #2
SPY_jmr1
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WB chang! light at the end of the tunnel is here, eh?

this force push change sounds VERY interesting.... is there a list of ALL the changes? just wondering....

btw, who did you have to kill to get this patch released?


Spy
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Old 07-12-2002, 12:22 PM   #3
ChangKhan[RAVEN]
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Quote:
Originally posted by SPY_jmr1
is there a list of ALL the changes? just wondering....
Kenn's list is pretty complete...

Quote:
Originally posted by SPY_jmr1
btw, who did you have to kill to get this patch released?
myself...?


Michael Chang Gummelt
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Old 07-12-2002, 12:42 PM   #4
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Do mod makers have to do anything to update to version 1.04? I heard something about new IP protocol.
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Old 07-12-2002, 03:09 PM   #5
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Should also be mentioned that dedicated servers need the assets5.pk3 that comes with the client patch.

The dedicated servers should be re-zipped with that file.

In my opinion ...

More info on that problem here:

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/boa...threadid=36124

Thanks for the patch!
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Old 07-12-2002, 04:21 PM   #6
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Thanks for making push and pull almost worthless. *cries*
But great game otherwise!

And friend, the only way to 'balance' a game - is to overpower EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING - then everyone has EQUAL rights to every power at it's maximum - then it's based on skill on who has the talent to use the moves correctly the and the fastest. Try it internally - boost everything and see what I mean - I am talking from experence here
See : Street Fighter series
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Old 07-12-2002, 07:47 PM   #7
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ChangKhan[RAVEN]

Will there be further patches?
Dont you think there is an imbalance worse then before between light- and dark-sided players?

Why the tweak on grip? (no more running)
No one ever could grip and throw me of a ledge - And if they did, I would grant them that.
That force is useless now.

Why the change to backwards running? - More realism? - A Jedi can jump 10-20 meters up in the air.. but he runs backwards as slow as a crippled turtle, dont you think this will slow down the action in the game? I know that I do.

If the change from 1 tap over to 2 taps on kick was done because of the problem people experienced while trying to jump over a short wall, why didn't you guys make it an option in the controls-menu instead? Let us choose, that can't go wrong.

Or do the opposite: 2 taps = normal jump (if close to an object)

More random blocks and less saber damage = less skill = less fun. IMO

I've played this game a couple of hours every day since it was released, and I love it.
And I am not complaining because I was good then and suck now.
I Never spammed anything before, neither do I spam anything now. I always won then and I always win now - It's just that I have less fun now, with the red saber stance weakened and dark forces made almost useless.

Please see this for what it is: constructive criticism.

1.02: DFA was a problem, ...got nerfed (good)
1.03: BS was a problem, ...got nerfed (good)
1.04: people are complaining about kick now, ...will it get nerfed too?

Instead of crippling moves and forces, why didn't you just strengthen the less powerful ones?

1.02: Light Vs. Dark... dark was the more powerful... so you:

Tweaked Absorb (Good)
Nerfed Drain (Bad)

Result= 1.03(04): Dark Vs. Light ....light is the more powerful now!

I hope you will answer me, and that you understand my point.
Thank you again for a great game.. .so great that I refuse to stop playing it! - V-tecc
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Old 07-12-2002, 08:10 PM   #8
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V-tecc

This is just your opinion and I mostly disagree in the most you said.

And Kicks are not overpowered. They are because some g@y NO-FORCE servers have jump to lvl3. No force servers with jump, Like Jump is not a force. Kick is a use of the Force Jump. Activate all other forces and you'll see how useful the Kick is.

Grip is for use in some special maps and not in every map. It is mostly used along with drain where after you have sucked enemy's Energy you can drive him to abyss while can't even push because he has no energy.
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Old 07-12-2002, 08:38 PM   #9
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What is the exact link to a place where you can download 1.04? I only got 1.03 from Lucasarts.


When all is said and done, more is said than done.

Thanks to ZeeMan for the sig!
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Old 07-12-2002, 08:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by GrEEk_OuTcAsT
V-tecc

This is just your opinion and I mostly disagree in the most you said.

And Kicks are not overpowered. They are because some g@y NO-FORCE servers have jump to lvl3. No force servers with jump, Like Jump is not a force. Kick is a use of the Force Jump. Activate all other forces and you'll see how useful the Kick is.

Grip is for use in some special maps and not in every map. It is mostly used along with drain where after you have sucked enemy's Energy you can drive him to abyss while can't even push because he has no energy.
Dude... Yes its my opinion.. care to read it again?
I havn't said anything claiming that Kick is over/under -powered.
I was talking about the switch from 1 to 2 taps.

Some people (not I) complain that kick will be the next spam move. I dont care, I DONT want it to be changed.

I have been playing this game since it came out, and I was ranked #2 this week at www.csports.net -So I don't think I need you explaining grip to me, I had far much more use for this move then just on "some maps" - Without combineing it with Drain.

Please ... my post was directed to ChangKhan no one else.
And if you dissagree with me, fine... there is a vast number of people that agree, just check these forums... I dont want this to start as another debate...

V-tecc
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Old 07-12-2002, 08:53 PM   #11
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V-tecc

You can disagree with me whenever you want but not with claiming shiets. I said WHY I disagree with you and I explained some things. They only thing you said to prove you are right is to report that you are 2nd in a ladder. Who gives a F? You can rule whatever ladder you want, this doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you. The forums are for discussion. You express your opinion not claim.
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by GrEEk_OuTcAsT
V-tecc

You can disagree with me whenever you want but not with claiming shiets. I said WHY I disagree with you and I explained some things. They only thing you said to prove you are right is to report that you are 2nd in a ladder. Who gives a F? You can rule whatever ladder you want, this doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you. The forums are for discussion. You express your opinion not claim.
Listen... what part of dont talk to me dont you understand?
You started rambling about kick not being over powered? - How is this disagreeing with me?? I thought you had to claim something for someone to disagree with it... I have not claimed that kick is overpowered. So why dont you either read my post again (or for the first time) ... and just stop replying OK??

As for me being ranked #2 i csports, If you knew what you where talking about you would know that that proves I have played a lot, not that Im good in a ladder -Which would mean that YOU need not explain the usage of grip.

BTW, who invited you to reply to me? -Let me simplify: Stop posting to me!

Especially not when your arguments include words like "g@y" or "sheit" - Then I wont recognize you as intelligent


END OF DISCUSSION
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:14 PM   #13
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All I have to say is this is a great patch and I'm glad Raven gives us the ability to tweak the game - kinda wish these cvar's reported to master servers, but hey it's not a perfect world.

I'm currently using these settings, and I highly recommend them for FFA Saber only - with force or without force:

seta g_saberghoul2collision 0 - Less Saber Blocking.
seta g_sabertracesaberfirst 0 - Less Saber Blocking.
seta g_saberdamagescale 4 - Saber Damage x 4 (Default 1)

seta disable_item_medpac 1 - No Bacta Tanks.
seta disable_item_medpak_instant 1 - No Health Packs.
seta disable_item_shield_lrg_instant 1 - No Large Shields.
seta disable_item_shield_sm_instant 1 - No Small shields.

seta g_forceregentime 100 - Force Regeneration Doubled (default 200).

seta g_dismember 300 - Full dismemberment.
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:15 PM   #14
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ChangKhan, I noticed that you wrote that the flawed "painsounds" were fixed. I don't know what you mean by this, but when I play 1.04 and get hit for 1(!) damage, my model screams as is he got hit for 40 damage. Anyone else have this problem, or am I wrong here?

I know that many people will say that backstab got "nerfed", but what if that move had been like in 1.04 all along? No complaints here, the backstab move feels about right in damage now.
It's particularily balanced from a risk/gain point of view, since you pretty much don't risk anything running backwards into your enemy, so the damage shouldn't be great either.

V-tecc, if you're so good, how come you have so much f*ckin' trouble with kicking? It's pathetically easy to do. Try sidekicks if you want to only use 1 click and want less straining on your fingers.

Was your good grip skills only in 1.02? Because you say that have no problem in utilizing grip, while at the same time say that the power is worthless now. Do you mean 1.03/4 or 1.02?
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
seta g_saberghoul2collision 0 - Less Saber Blocking.
seta g_sabertracesaberfirst 0 - Less Saber Blocking.
seta g_saberdamagescale 4 - Saber Damage x 4 (Default 1)
This combo sounds quite unhealthy quiet!

Hmmm... okay, a normal yellow hit= 30 damage.... x4 = 120 damage.... with "two times" less blocking = a match over in 3 seconds....

A lunge = 40-50 damage... x4 = 160-200 damage... less blocking = one dead enemy....

Don't get me started on the red kamikazi users = lets say about 280 damage, *with* less blocking!

Geeez.... but, it could be interesting to try, and I'm not saying it isn't fun..... Maybe a tad more realistic even?
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjais
ChangKhan, I noticed that you wrote that the flawed "painsounds" were fixed. I don't know what you mean by this, but when I play 1.04 and get hit for 1(!) damage, my model screams as is he got hit for 40 damage. Anyone else have this problem, or am I wrong here?

I know that many people will say that backstab got "nerfed", but what if that move had been like in 1.04 all along? No complaints here, the backstab move feels about right in damage now.
It's particularily balanced from a risk/gain point of view, since you pretty much don't risk anything running backwards into your enemy, so the damage shouldn't be great either.

V-tecc, if you're so good, how come you have so much f*ckin' trouble with kicking? It's pathetically easy to do. Try sidekicks if you want to only use 1 click and want less straining on your fingers.

Was your good grip skills only in 1.02? Because you say that have no problem in utilizing grip, while at the same time say that the power is worthless now. Do you mean 1.03/4 or 1.02?
Darn... you people can't read can you?

Didnt have a single problem with kick then... nor now: can kick you to death in 1.04 without any complications... just sucks tapping twice

The problem i have with grip is: That you can no longer run/roll fast with it...

Grip is worthless in 1.03/4
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:24 PM   #17
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cjais why are you even talking to me?
You have yourself said that you never tried the game before 1.03, so you have no reference...


[b]DBD|V-tecc [1.02]
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjais


This combo sounds quite unhealthy quiet!

Hmmm... okay, a normal yellow hit= 30 damage.... x4 = 120 damage.... with "two times" less blocking = a match over in 3 seconds....

A lunge = 40-50 damage... x4 = 160-200 damage... less blocking = one dead enemy....

Don't get me started on the red kamikazi users = lets say about 280 damage, *with* less blocking!

Geeez.... but, it could be interesting to try, and I'm not saying it isn't fun..... Maybe a tad more realistic even?
You can try it on my server - it's how it's set.

I think you may find it prevents special move and kick spam.

Keep in mind though red is powerful, once that red person executes a move you can wipe em out with the yellow or blue (or another red) .. just hit em a few times or less with blue and theyll think twice in using red .. especially DFA - very painful for them.
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by V-tecc
cjais why are you even talking to me?
You have yourself said that you never tried the game before 1.03, so you have no reference...
I'll let this stupid comment stand as a testament to your ignorance towards your fellow humans.

For the record, I DID play 1.02, just not very much online, but I did get a feeling for the blocking, running while gripping, red - "batsaber"-effect, flawed blocking etc.... I played enough to realize that 1.02 saberfighting was about as much skill as jk1. Thank god.

For the umteenth time: The fault in 1.03/4 saberfights ISN'T the blocking, it's the low damage. The blocking is perfectly fine and makes for heated fights - they just get longer than necesarry because of the high blocking. That is all.
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:54 PM   #20
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Interesting you mention JK 1.

A few people commented when in my server - using those settings I posted above - this feels like JK 1.

Is that a bad thing?
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjais


I'll let this stupid comment stand as a testament to your brainpower and ignorance towards your fellow humans.

For the record, I DID play 1.02, just not very much online, but I did get a feeling for the blocking, running while gripping, red - "batsaber"-effect, flawed blocking etc.... I played enough to realize that 1.02 saberfighting was about as much skill as jk1. Thank god.

For the umteenth time: The fault in 1.03/4 saberfights ISN'T the blocking, it's the low damage. The blocking is perfectly fine and makes for heated fights - they just get longer than necesarry because of the high blocking. That is all.
And I'll let that uncalled for insult stand as a testament of YOUR mental capacity (or lack there of it) and as a example of your obvious theory of treatment of fellow man.

Did you play 1.02 for a brief moment? - Oh how good, and with all that vast experience you still dont know how to dodge a kick?
/based on your most humorous comparison of JK2 with Karate Kid in another thread.... veeeerry funny .. *yaaawn*

And to comment the only non-moronic comment you had:

So you think autoblocking makes heated fights?
why dont you loop the SW movies? Since you are such a fan of watching. I on the other hand like to have the game under my control, and not the other way.

Lastly: Stop replying to me.. pleeease


[b]DBD|V-tecc [1.02]
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Old 07-12-2002, 10:11 PM   #22
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V-tecc: Stop shadowboxing.

Quiet: They might refer to the fact that you died a whole lot quicker in jk1 and that the blocking wasn't no where near the level it is in 1.03/4.
LOL, I remember the fights in jk1 where you, as soon as you got hit, rushed to swallow as many bactatanks as possible to be able to stand another hit..... Damn it was deadly in that game.

[Edit-] I meant jk1, 1! not 2! LOL, hope you understood it anyways...

Last edited by C'jais; 07-12-2002 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 07-12-2002, 10:27 PM   #23
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Thanks for explaining.

I got rid of shields and medkits to make it even more deadly. It makes the game very strategic to totally rely on forces and sabers - imo.
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Old 07-12-2002, 10:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjais
since you pretty much don't risk anything running backwards into your enemy
Yop ....and i don t think personnally it seems right in the first place
I would have been much happier if Raven dealt with Blocking arcs ( no guard for flanks and rear ....like when u block bolts and saber throw ) rather than with Backstab, cause obviously ppl will allways try to find a way to get around the overpowered all angle guard : say with saber throw, kick or simply guns ....But in the end no decent player will use saber
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Old 07-12-2002, 10:57 PM   #25
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Ho and by the way, while chang khan is here i ll ask just a little question
Is it possible , either by using console value or by modding, to use the same code used to block ranged attacks ( bolts and saber throw ) to block saber slashes ??? ( yes i m a coder ....but as all coders i m lazy )
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:09 PM   #26
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I realize that the blocking arc is rideculous, but most skilled players can find a way to land the hits, even without special moves. So if the damage was increased, I'd be happy, but I don't represent the community, so hey.

Can you guys remember the blocking in jk1? It was hideous. You used one of those "double swings", and your opponent was more or less guaranteed to be hit. That is not the type of blocking I'm after. Same blocking frequency, no blocking from behind (especially not during supermoves like lunge and DFA) and an increased damage. Anyone know of a mod that does this?
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:18 PM   #27
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In my opinion you don't need a mod to do that.

Try this:

seta g_saberghoul2collision 0 - Less Saber Blocking.
seta g_sabertracesaberfirst 0 - Less Saber Blocking.
seta g_saberdamagescale 4 - Saber Damage x 4 (Default 1)
(4x - Prevents special move and kick spam.)

The damagescale is something you'll want to play with.
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjais
I'm after. Same blocking frequency, no blocking from behind (especially not during supermoves like lunge and DFA) and an increased damage. Anyone know of a mod that does this?
Well that s what i m after too and since no one is tweaking the blockin arc i decided to finally get my hands dirty with the code ........say "goodbye world"
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
The damagescale is something you'll want to play with.
Definately! I'm gonna try this one soon, although I cant play the so much next few days. I hope all the server admins are gonna try experiment with that variable. And the others too, so you can customize the game to your preference, and other's.
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by QuietSith
In my opinion you don't need a mod to do that.
Well sadly we need to cause lowering the guard renders all the guard unreliable even front arc
What i want is to have a strong guard forward, almost ( or totally ) no guard for flanks and zero guard for rear

That way blocking will recquire at last some skill ( like it does for blocking ranged attacks )

And by the way modding is allways an experience good to know
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:43 PM   #31
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ChangKhan

I think that even in Duels SaberTrace should be OFF. Because with it on all people try only the Red Stance to have at least a possiblity to do high damage. There is no reason to use Yellow/Blue since in case you hit the enemy he will not lose a lot. And then come the kicks and the massed DFAs & AirFlips.

Also with SaberTrace ON players that do massing DFA's and Airflip get no disadvantage because even in the Idle time of these moves they can defend 90% of your saber attacks. That's crazy. Normally the prediction of the enemy doing DFA should be awarded by at least one Saber Swing and this is Defended even if you hit him in the back.
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:00 AM   #32
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LOL

Quote:
Originally posted by V-tecc


And I'll let that uncalled for insult stand as a testament of YOUR mental capacity (or lack there of it) and as a example of your obvious theory of treatment of fellow man.

Did you play 1.02 for a brief moment? - Oh how good, and with all that vast experience you still dont know how to dodge a kick?
/based on your most humorous comparison of JK2 with Karate Kid in another thread.... veeeerry funny .. *yaaawn*

And to comment the only non-moronic comment you had:

So you think autoblocking makes heated fights?
why dont you loop the SW movies? Since you are such a fan of watching. I on the other hand like to have the game under my control, and not the other way.

Lastly: Stop replying to me.. pleeease

LOL V-Tecc

Why are these people jumping down your throat? I agree with what you are saying because you and I agree.

I think the simple question is this.

Why is the removal of every tactic that is difficult to defend seen as conducive to a higher skilled enviroment?

It seems to me that by eliminating viable options in combat and adding a very powerful defensive ability that takes zero movement to use, is not a move geared towards increasing skill.


~I hope that you don't mind that I wrote to you V-Tecc.

PS to the guy who said 1.02 takes no skill, you have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to 1.02 and see what its like now. Duels are long lasting because ALL 1.02 players have learned to avoid the DFA. And they didn't need a patch!


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 07-13-2002, 01:26 AM   #33
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People complain before patches, people complain after patches, people complain if there is no patch. People sure do like to complain. And yes I am complaining about the complaining.
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Old 07-13-2002, 02:22 AM   #34
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Re: LOL

Quote:
Originally posted by FatalStrike



LOL V-Tecc

Why are these people jumping down your throat? I agree with what you are saying because you and I agree.

I think the simple question is this.

Why is the removal of every tactic that is difficult to defend seen as conducive to a higher skilled enviroment?

It seems to me that by eliminating viable options in combat and adding a very powerful defensive ability that takes zero movement to use, is not a move geared towards increasing skill.


~I hope that you don't mind that I wrote to you V-Tecc.

PS to the guy who said 1.02 takes no skill, you have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to 1.02 and see what its like now. Duels are long lasting because ALL 1.02 players have learned to avoid the DFA. And they didn't need a patch!
No I certainly dont mind

On the contrary I am very happy to see that the smart and logical people like your self agree with me.
I have read some of you're other posts in these forums and I totally agree with you and like the way you think and write.

I just hope Raven and/or Lucas is paying attention to more then just the people who say things like: "Get rid of Drain, coz its g@y"


[b]DBD|V-tecc [1.02]
http://committed.to/honour/
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Old 07-13-2002, 05:55 AM   #35
BlackDove
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Raven people REALLY must be busy with SOF2.


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1. I kill you.
2. You cry for a lightsabre damage nerf.
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:41 PM   #36
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cjais, in JK1 u can't survive two hits from the saber, nope, not even with bacta. Unless you're sabering on oasis or someother map than BGJ, which is pretty stupid. spawning with 100/100, a hit from the saber brings you down to 2/0 if you healed yourself, you would be 100/0, but the only intrest in having health after you're hit is to survive a fall. Of course, you could be one of those people who sabered with primary swings....
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Old 07-13-2002, 03:16 PM   #37
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"Result= 1.03(04): Dark Vs. Light ....light is the more powerful now!"

Well, I don't really think Dark is any less stronger than Light now. The main problem with Dark in 1.3 is that it was alot easier to get knocked down, due to being pulled down alot, because of the lack of any sort of absorb power. So basically anyone using Dark was backstab/sweep fodder (usually, but not always, I and I've seen some other Dark users that could own a backstab whoring light user).

Now, since backstab and knockdown isn't really a big thing, specially now that you can push while on the ground now. I believe Dark is now as it should be. The offensive side. Light being defensive. I love Dark personally, although I use both. But I usually use Dark now, since it's much more fun. I might dare say Dark is stronger than Light now in the right cases, but it's so close to call, it mainly depends on the people using both.

I'd say Dark and Light now, are as balanced as they've ever been.

Just learn to master both, you'll notice the difference.
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Old 07-13-2002, 03:27 PM   #38
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cjais...you didn't call for backup...but here it is anyways


Wizard's First Rule: People Are Stupid

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Old 07-13-2002, 07:38 PM   #39
C'jais
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twins of Doom
cjais...you didn't call for backup...but here it is anyways
Hehe, I didn't need backup Twins, but thanks anyway....

V-tecc apparently had nothing else to do except showing us all his l33t shadow-boxing skillz.... For the last time, shadowboxing against me doesn't equal respect in debating V.

Quote:
cjais, in JK1 u can't survive two hits from the saber, nope, not even with bacta. Unless you're sabering on oasis or someother map than BGJ, which is pretty stupid. spawning with 100/100, a hit from the saber brings you down to 2/0 if you healed yourself, you would be 100/0, but the only intrest in having health after you're hit is to survive a fall. Of course, you could be one of those people who sabered with primary swings....
LOL, no I guess I can't remember that far back it seems....
But what I recalled, the nasty doubleswings could manage to hit you for only 1 hit, dealing sub-100 damage, but I could easily be wrong here.
Hehe, yeah you should have tried fighting only with primary swings! Great fun! Except, you had SUCH an urge to doubeswing your opponent to death when the wussy normal swings failed to hit for the 48th time....

Quote:
Why is the removal of every tactic that is difficult to defend seen as conducive to a higher skilled enviroment?
It seems to me that by eliminating viable options in combat and adding a very powerful defensive ability that takes zero movement to use, is not a move geared towards increasing skill.
Well, imagine that everyone started out with the BFG in quake, do you then think that they'd use anything else? When certain supermoves are too good, they get balanced - It's a patchers job really. That they then can balance things out by weakening the good moves or strengthening the weak moves, is a choice for them to make. But I think that they made useless choice, since no one wanted even more tedious, drawn-out fights in CTF for instance.
I'd say that when everything is equal, and your creativity is rewarded in fights, then the gaming enviroment is skilled, but this is not the case, yet.

About the blocking, you are true in that the blocking takes no skill to use, but it takes skill to get past, and that is where the low saberdamage kicks in and makes it unrewarding to use normal saberslashes.
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Old 07-13-2002, 10:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjais
[B]ChangKhan, I noticed that you wrote that the flawed "painsounds" were fixed. I don't know what you mean by this, but when I play 1.04 and get hit for 1(!) damage, my model screams as is he got hit for 40 damage. Anyone else have this problem, or am I wrong here?
Windows - Control Panel - Multimedia.

Turn down Sound Accel one notch.
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