New Patch

ExarDunnan · 09-20-2002, 10:38 PM

I think that raven should release a new patch that enhances gameplay some. For one thing, if you shoot someone with a killing blow when trhey are in the air, they'll have the regular falling motion, but they're already "laying down" in the air before they hit the ground. Also, if you pull a corpse off the ground, they'll fly around stiff as a board (then make a nice WHOMP noise when they hit the ground, but that's not the point). I think the in-air animations should be improved, like if they just kinda fliped around when they fell. It probably seems kinda picky of me to be annoyed by this, but I think that if the lifeless stormtrooper corpses are going to fly through the air, they should do it with style!!!

Guardian Omega · 09-21-2002, 01:22 AM

That's cosmetics.........Gameplay is the most important.

NerfYoda · 09-21-2002, 03:29 AM

No more patches please. Leave it be! It's fine!

Russk Rijann · 09-21-2002, 09:17 AM

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*agrees with him above me*

zerowingzero · 09-21-2002, 09:45 AM

Bah, i don't want a new patch, Promod and SOS are great mods, and making a new patch would slow them down. Releasing Promod AS a patch would be good... or an offical bonus pack with models and maps...

<|DLS|>Darth Fett · 09-22-2002, 06:38 PM

geuss wat

heh heh

DeTRiTiC-iQ · 09-22-2002, 08:39 PM

Why are people so against another patch when there are still bugs that need to be fixed?

With nearly every other game, a patch doesn't involve gameplay changes they just fix bugs. JK2 is some bizarre exception to this rule.

What I'm proposing is a REAL patch. I've actually compiled a list of suggestions, some are bug-fixes whilst the others are MINOR gameplay tweaks.

Here is my list of suggestions:

Quote:

1) Prevent Saber from blocking sniper shots aimed at feet, its far too easy for anyone to evade snipers simply by switching to saber. Anywhere else on the body is fine, but a decent sniper should still be able to make a shot from the front if aimed well.

2) Fix the animation bugs associated with the various "throwables", purely aesthetic, but its rediculous that this is still present after TWO patches, despite being complained about with the original release.

3) Have the Toogle/Timed force power icons start flashing 5 seconds before they are due to turn off, this should make force managament a bit easier, especially in CTF where EVERYTHING is about timing.

4) Prevent the Toogle/Timed force power icons from being hidden when using the zoom mode of the disrupter, if there is a lot of firefighting around you its hard to tell if seeing has turned itself off.

5) Find some way to stop the Forcefield pickup from causing so much lag, it makes ANY game literally unplayable for anyone above about 100 ping.

6) Make it so that if you cancel dark rage early, the recovery time is proportionally less

7) Fix the bug that makes the red tint of dark rage remain for a few moments after respawning

8) Make the blue tint of Absorb a client-side option, using absorb makes it quite difficul to judge player colours, especially if people are using rage and absorb as well. Whose idea was it to make the Rage and Absorb colours the same as the team colours anyway?

9) Put the speed and saber trails on/off option in the actual menu instead of just being a little-known cvar

10) Give the player choice over the crosshairs without having to use the console, its mentioned in the manual so I don't know why it was removed from the final version...

11) More netcode optimization, many people have said to me that the new protocol in 1.04 has made lag a lot worse

12) Make it possible to wall-walk whilst holding a gun. Neo does it in The Matrix, so why can't our Jedi?

13) Make Force Speed and Dark Rage less laggy, its practically impossible to use them in any map featuring pits. On Bespin Exhaust Shafts I can make a flag run in 12 seconds from home base (when i'm playing offline), in Warring Factions about 30 seconds. It is practically impossible to use these techniques realiably with anything above about 150 ping.

Spider AL · 09-22-2002, 09:11 PM

Quote:

With nearly every other game, a patch doesn't involve gameplay changes they just fix bugs. JK2 is some bizarre exception to this rule.

Well I'm not too sure that's correct Det. At the very least, gameplay-changing patches are on the increase, and have been for the past two-to-three years. Tribes 2, CS, UT, they've all been changed at least as much as JO has.

Most of your suggestions are innoffensive enough, I don't think anyone of sound mind would be opposed to their implementation... But there are no "problems" per-se. Nothing that imbalances the game the way the overpowered DFA did in 1.02, and the overpowered backswing did in 1.03.

Re: Snipers and Wall-walking with a gun, there is currently a very good incentive for people to carry the lightsabre, because it blocks energy weapons and sniper shots from the front, and it's light enough for your character to perform acrobatics with. I think the sabre-lovers (which I am, as well as being a gunner) would be dissapointed by any tweak which made sniper rifles more powerful and/or acrobatics usable with guns. Frankly I consider it to be an unjustified gameplay tweak idea.

And re: your force speed = lag suggestion you have to take into account that an increase in speed will naturally make players appear to move in a choppier fashion. This has as much to do with FPS as with connection speed. The same can be said of (and observed in) the new "adrenal speed" ability in Unreal Tournament 2K3.

With my big monster-PC and my hosepipe of a connection however, such drops in relative FPS don't affect me as much. But that's just one of the crosses that HPBs have to bear.

So I'd stick with bug-fixes and additions to menus and icons-on-screen... But gameplay changes, no matter how "minor" will have vast repercussions. Best to leave them alone I think.

Guardian Omega · 09-23-2002, 12:23 AM

Whats the cvar for turning off the speed flashes? I really need that, many a time I lost the game simply because lag got me stuck for one sec and I fell into the abyss...............

Rancilk · 09-23-2002, 12:46 AM

u know ive been thinking all patch is very different
1.2
1.3
1.4 their all different

hey i want 1.5 i wonder what it will be like.

JEDI OUTCAST · 09-23-2002, 12:51 AM

i think they might make a new patch.

DeTRiTiC-iQ · 09-23-2002, 05:02 PM

My sniping suggestion is for shots aimed at the feet only. You have to be a decent enough sniper to get a foot-shot on someone especially if they are half-decent at evasion. It would just give snipers a little extra edge when attacking saberists.

FatalStrike · 09-23-2002, 05:07 PM

New patch will just weaken the game more then it aleady is.

1.02 was great offense but needed a defense

1.03 should have cost someone at Raven their job

1.04 is better then 1.03 but is not a fluid as 1.02 and went a little too far with nerfing and auto blocking

Finalnight · 09-23-2002, 05:40 PM

I want to see force manipulatable environmental objects and those stationary guns in SP should be brought into MP!

FatalStrike · 09-23-2002, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Finalnight
stationary guns in SP should be brought into MP!

DAMN RIGHT!! They would own in CTF defense.

Spider AL · 09-23-2002, 09:12 PM

Quote:

It would just give snipers a little extra edge when attacking saberists.

Whether you'd have to be a good sniper to foot-shoot someone is irrelevant, what is relevant is the question: Why would you want to give snipers any more of an "edge" in the first place? It's that kind of thinking that resulted in 1.03.

ShockV1.89 · 09-23-2002, 10:40 PM

I dunno, I dont see the things the author suggested coming into play until JK3. If they're smart, they'l use the UT2K3 engine and incorporate the Karma Physics. That, combined with the graphics, should make a (visually) wicked game....

FatalStrike · 09-23-2002, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spider AL

Whether you'd have to be a good sniper to foot-shoot someone is irrelevant, what is relevant is the question: Why would you want to give snipers any more of an "edge" in the first place? It's that kind of thinking that resulted in 1.03.

*sigh*

The snipe suggestion is you have to do more to avoid snipers when approaching the base then simply having your saber up. Also people carrying the flag can run backwards and you can't touch them with a snipe. Having snipers that easily avoided makes them useless when playing good teams.

You should be able to hit certain hard to hit vulnerable spots, it would be very hard to hit a moving player on the foot unless they are stupid and run in straight lines.

The kind of thinking that led to 1.03 was useless whining by fools that couldn't play the game or wanted to be "real Jedi." Not by snipers who wanted to have a useful function in CTF.

Darth Kaan · 09-23-2002, 11:51 PM

Ack! No more patches! Be patient and let Artifex work his vision with Promod.

The only way I think another patch would be a plus is if it ADDED features to the game, instead of taking them away.

-=Lord Oz=- · 09-24-2002, 05:52 AM

It's clear to me many of you have lost the pupose of this game. It wasn't to give people another first person shooter where they can snipe and spam splash weapons. It was for the lightsaber and the force powers. 1.04 has already made the saber nearly non-existent in CTF games. And now you want to make it easier for a sniper to hit someone with the saber out. Why? Go play CS, or MOHAA. I hate to burst your bubbles, but this is Star Wars. And taking that into account, on a Full Force server, no sniper SHOULD be able to hit a Jedi with his blade out, who has level 3 saber defense and atleast level 2 seeing (even though it says in the manual you can dodge sniper shots with level 3 seeing).

I'm sorry but whenever anyone complains that any of the guns in this game need to be amped up, it irks me. I stick to saber only servers now because the guns in this game are just so ridiculously spammable. I know the Tenloss isn't, but so what. You show me in the SW Universe anywhere a jedi was sniped by a lone sniper and I'll concede your point. Guns need no more tweaking, unless they nerf them. The point of this game was for the sabering. People whined and moaned that the saber was too powerful. I remember playing on 1.02 servers in the beginning and actually hearing kids call people "saber whores". It was ridiculous. If you want guns there are plenty of FPS's out there with much better weapons then JK2. Pick up the saber and play this game the way it was designed to be played. Oh wait you can't, because all the whiners had 1.02 patched twice!

FatalStrike · 09-24-2002, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by -=Lord Oz=-
It's clear to me many of you have lost the pupose of this game. It wasn't to give people another first person shooter where they can snipe and spam splash weapons. It was for the lightsaber and the force powers. 1.04 has already made the saber nearly non-existent in CTF games. And now you want to make it easier for a sniper to hit someone with the saber out. Why? Go play CS, or MOHAA. I hate to burst your bubbles, but this is Star Wars. And taking that into account, on a Full Force server, no sniper SHOULD be able to hit a Jedi with his blade out, who has level 3 saber defense and atleast level 2 seeing (even though it says in the manual you can dodge sniper shots with level 3 seeing).

I'm sorry but whenever anyone complains that any of the guns in this game need to be amped up, it irks me. I stick to saber only servers now because the guns in this game are just so ridiculously spammable. I know the Tenloss isn't, but so what. You show me in the SW Universe anywhere a jedi was sniped by a lone sniper and I'll concede your point. Guns need no more tweaking, unless they nerf them. The point of this game was for the sabering. People whined and moaned that the saber was too powerful. I remember playing on 1.02 servers in the beginning and actually hearing kids call people "saber whores". It was ridiculous. If you want guns there are plenty of FPS's out there with much better weapons then JK2. Pick up the saber and play this game the way it was designed to be played. Oh wait you can't, because all the whiners had 1.02 patched twice!

I thought 1.02 was the best version by far as far as sabers go. But snipers are too easy to avoid compared to the pain it is to use them. You can't move and you have to charge them up in order to get a real shot off. You should be rewarded for an excellent shot.

You should see the things ProMod is doing for Sabers v guns.

dood · 09-24-2002, 10:06 AM

New patch will be greate if Raven put in some new comands end make better net-code...

DeTRiTiC-iQ · 09-24-2002, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FatalStrike

I thought 1.02 was the best version by far as far as sabers go. But snipers are too easy to avoid compared to the pain it is to use them. You can't move and you have to charge them up in order to get a real shot off. You should be rewarded for an excellent shot.

You should see the things ProMod is doing for Sabers v guns.

Can't move with Sniper? *giggles*

You would think by now people on these forums would know how to snipe.

Play [JA]-HooDWinKeR, Nova SkyGod or NCG Cannon and you'll find out just how effective a sniper rifle can be.

My only complaint is that the sniper is a "no-brain no-skill" solution to being sniped, people should at least have to evade a bit if they don't want burnt toes.

FatalStrike · 09-24-2002, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Can't move with Sniper? *giggles*

You would think by now people on these forums would know how to snipe.

Play [JA]-HooDWinKeR, Nova SkyGod or NCG Cannon and you'll find out just how effective a sniper rifle can be.

LoL I do just find with a sniper, by not moving I meant when you are charging for a shot, not as in stay in one place to snipe.

I am not the best sniper in the world but I have driven some of the best CTF players on TWL crazy by sniping.

Quote:

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
My only complaint is that the sniper is a "no-brain no-skill" solution to being sniped, people should at least have to evade a bit if they don't want burnt toes.

I agree

DeTRiTiC-iQ · 09-24-2002, 06:44 PM

Oops, I meant to say that the saber is a no-brainer solution. I would edit the post but its already been quoted. Oh well.

Incidently the players I mentioned before don't remain stationary when charging.

Finalnight · 09-24-2002, 07:47 PM

Should use Q4 or U2 or D3 engine.

*Darth Vega* · 09-24-2002, 11:09 PM

v1.02-good but needed some work
v1.03-perfect
v1.04-what the ****?

i play with v1.03 since its the best

thehomicidalegg · 09-24-2002, 11:42 PM

um... no.

*Darth Vega* · 09-25-2002, 11:06 AM

um...yes
and next time i want your opinion i'll beat it out of your mom

FatalStrike · 09-25-2002, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Incidently the players I mentioned before don't remain stationary when charging.

Please explain....sounds interesting.

FatalStrike · 09-25-2002, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by *Darth Vega*
um...yes
and next time i want your opinion i'll beat it out of your mom

a mom comment?

Why do you think 1.03 is better then 1.02 or 1.04. I don't agree with you but would still like to know why you think this is so.

DeTRiTiC-iQ · 09-25-2002, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FatalStrike

Please explain....sounds interesting.

Ok, as most of you probably know, pressing a movement key whilst zoomed will cancel the zoom, hence making a charged shot impossible.

However, there's nothing against zooming whilst you are already moving. For example, jump in the air, release the jump button and you will be able to zoom and charge. With enough practise you will be able to do this all the time.

The next problem to overcome is the fact that you will rarely have enough time in your jump to charge. The solution is that you only need a short charge to kill anyone who has already received damage, and two short charges for someone with starting health/shields.

Generally the decent snipers will be able to do a full-power force jump, zoom, charge, focus on the target and finally kill. To the casual observer it looks like the sniper is merely using primary fire, but an experienced player will notice the extra accuracy and damage of the shots.

*Darth Vega* · 09-26-2002, 12:18 AM

Reason I dont like v1.02:

Not enough blocking. It was too much of swipe and run towards the guy halfway through the swipe and run back after there.

Reason I like v1.03:

Lightsaber fights are more of contact duels now. Like in the movies, you may swing but they often block. You gotta work damage. Only downside is backslash was a little overpowered. Backstab was fine.

Reason I don't like v1.04:

Lightsaber don't do jack. You're better off lowering your lightsaber and kicking the other guy to death.

Spider AL · 09-26-2002, 07:52 PM

Quote:

The snipe suggestion is you have to do more to avoid snipers when approaching the base then simply having your saber up.

*sigh*

Why?Just because people (including myself) enjoy using the tenloss, doesn't mean it should be made more tactically useful to increase the number of instances when we can use it.

And yes it WAS the same kind of thinking that caused 1.03, this kind:

"We leik sabar. We wnat to use sabar more. Maek sabars mroe powerfol, or froce powers and guns less pwoerful, so we cna use sabar more."

Substitute the word "tenloss" for "sabar" in that sentence, and you'll have my point in a nutshell.

Quote:

Not by snipers who wanted to have a useful function in CTF.

"Snipers?" "Useful function?"

You say that as if snipers have to pick their class before joining the game, Fatal. This isn't TFC. A "sniper" can pick up any other weapon and use it just like all the "regular" players. lol

There's no such thing as a "sniper" in JO. There are just players. Players who should use the tenloss when the right circumstances present themselves, and other weapons when the situation demands those weapons.

The tenloss is fun. It's useful under certain circumstances. Live with that, and accept the weapon balance as it is. You'll feel better, trust me.

FatalStrike · 09-27-2002, 10:03 AM

Spider, I remember when you had an opinion of your own, lately you've turned into a "Raven knows best" follower. So tell me which one of you guys where's the bell so the rest of you know where to walk?

I have no problem with the saber blocking a sniper, my problem lies in how easy it is to avoid a sniper. if you stand at your base facing forward with your saber drawn you are completely invulnerable to a sniper. Even one or two laser shots get thru your defense but the weapon that the game touts as "outlawed for being too powerful" can't touch you?

Zedar · 09-27-2002, 10:22 AM

Yeah blocking a sniper shot is way too easy. It's a cool weapon and it sucks that it's so uneffective coz of the blocking

Spider AL · 09-27-2002, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Spider, I remember when you had an opinion of your own, lately you've turned into a "Raven knows best" follower.

Oh, sure. If you say so son.

I on the other hand, don't remember a time when you backed up your consistently wild, fictional and fanciful comments with anything approaching logical evidence, or even logic.

Quote:

my problem lies in how easy it is to avoid a sniper.

Duhh, you're still not comprehending... Who says the tenloss should be more effective? You? Some other people? So fricken' what. Perhaps if people like you actually played the game as it is and stopped whining and pining for 1.03, the community would be a bit more active at this time.

But wait! Actually, the fact that you're all on here whinging is a good thing, because who wants to play on a server even more saturated with bile?

We've seen what happened when Raven caved like an incontinent's bladder and tried to make gameplay changes to suit the vocal minority, and it was crap. it was 1.03. Without whining like this, 1.03 would never have happened.

So if YOU want gameplay changes to suit YOUR style of play, go off and make a mod or something, but don't plague normal, decent people with your incessant warbling. You might very well RUIN the game again, and I doubt normal folk are going to allow that to happen a second time.

Frankly a large proportion of the traffic on this forum at this time reminds me of children in the back of a car, on a long journey: "Are we theeere yeeet?" "I need to go to the toooileeettt?" "Can we stop at that sweeeet shoooppp?" Ugh, it's so creepy. Growing up would be a good thing.

Quote:

the weapon that the game touts as "outlawed for being too powerful" can't touch you?

Ohh so you want to be all CANONICAL about it do you? Well word up, (ugh) In Jedi Outcast, you play a Jedi. EVERY player (barring Mercs in JvM and Jedi Master) is playing the character of a Jedi. Now Jedi have what are known as: "Speshal Abilitees" and a gun that's outlawed because it can kill a lot of normal people doesn't necessarily hold much danger for a Jedi, because of said "Abilitees." Comprende?

Personally Fatalstrike, I consider you a common-or-garden troll. Half the time you're ranting about how guns are overpowered, and the rest of the time you're trying to get the Tenloss tweaked up. Sense? Nahhh.

I mean, do you even understand that everything you say is just your opinion? you act as if you have the right to impose your view of what the game should be like on everyone else. You don't, trust me on this.

FatalStrike · 09-27-2002, 03:55 PM

You work for Raven don't you sheep....err...Spider-al?

You are still accusing me of wanting 1.03 back when I have said again and again that I don't like it.

You say I whine about weapons being too powerful? Have you gone mad? I complain about light saber being too weak and too slow! I had no problem with the way weapons were in 1.02.

geez old man, having to remind you about everything I post is getting annoying. Here is a handy-dandy guide to my views...

I LIKE 1.02 MORE THEN 1.04.

PROMOD IS BETTER THE BASE 1.04.

I DO NOT LIKE 1.03.

I DO NOT THINK NERFING SOLVES ANYTHING, IT ONLY MAKES A DIFFERNET PROBLEM.

Please remember these while working to defend Raven. Keep up the good work and maybe Raven will send you a nice t-shirt.

That would make you happy wouldn't it? I bet the boys you play shuffleboard with would be jealous.

DeTRiTiC-iQ · 09-27-2002, 04:30 PM

Spider, I used to respect you as a player, but it seems now you've lost all competition you're afraid of a few gameplay tweaks.

You're hardly the example of maturity with your egotistical, arrogant better-than-thou comments, you may be 20-something but that doesn't make you more mature. ESPECIALLY if you don't use your extra years of experience to have respect for other people instead of for your own selfish aims.

You still refusing to take part in any competition which doesn't offer prizes for winning?

Alimet · 09-27-2002, 06:44 PM

Only thing I don't like about JO right now is FF Saber fights, specially in CTF, just turn in to kickin wars. Just screws the shields and goes right for the health, what kinda saber fightin is that?