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Old 03-25-2003, 10:52 AM   #1
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SWGB 2. Should it mix Space combat with ground battles?

When Rebellion/Supremacy was announced, we were promised having both space and ground combats. As you know, the ground combat side of things turned into Force Commander.

Considering that PC specs are increasing all the time and the average game size is now over 1gig, maybe its an idea for LA to consider combining the best of both games in a new SWGB 2?

Whats your views? What would you like to see? How should LA approach this?

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Old 03-25-2003, 01:10 PM   #2
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I want a game were I can conquer the galaxy (here comes CorrenSec ), so yes, most definetely.


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Old 03-25-2003, 01:30 PM   #3
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YES. That would be awesome. Like we'd be able to control Star Destroyers and stuff.
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Old 03-25-2003, 03:41 PM   #4
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Excellant Thread!

I agree 100% with this idea! The specs of computer increase every year. We have computers now that have Pentium 4 with several GHZ Harddrive have increased to 200 GB's. Heck you can memory up to 1024 MB. Video Cards go up to 128 MB. Although, I only have a 8MB! Galactic Battlegrounds 2 should be both space and ground. Having ground, sea, and air battles on planets! Space battles in space! Control of fleets of ships! I always wondered when Lucasarts would make a decent Space-based strategy game for PC that had good graphics, music, sound and effects. I can only hope Garry Gaber is working on this as we speak. I always wanted to control Super Star Destroyers and Star Destroyers. I suppose it could be possible to do a strategy game on playstation 2 also. But I like PC games better myself.
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Old 03-25-2003, 04:30 PM   #5
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I doubt if a decent Strategy game will ever come to a PS2. The console spec sucks. Xbox and even gamecube have much better frame rates for a start but the PS2 sells.

Decent strat games are best left on the PC

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Old 03-25-2003, 05:11 PM   #6
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Re: Excellant Thread!

Quote:
Originally posted by joesdomain
I agree 100% with this idea! The specs of computer increase every year. We have computers now that have Pentium 4 with several GHZ Harddrive have increased to 200 GB's. Heck you can memory up to 1024 MB. Video Cards go up to 128 MB. Although, I only have a 8MB! Galactic Battlegrounds 2 should be both space and ground. Having ground, sea, and air battles on planets! Space battles in space! Control of fleets of ships! I always wondered when Lucasarts would make a decent Space-based strategy game for PC that had good graphics, music, sound and effects. I can only hope Garry Gaber is working on this as we speak. I always wanted to control Super Star Destroyers and Star Destroyers. I suppose it could be possible to do a strategy game on playstation 2 also. But I like PC games better myself.
Yes, YES, YES, YES!!!

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Old 03-25-2003, 07:28 PM   #7
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While I think a Space Combat/Ground Combat game would be good, I think SWGB2 should only be ground combat, on the same scale as SWGB1. The scale of things in SWGB1 is too single-battle-focussed.

However, if an RTS in the same scale as Total War were to be made, I think Space Combat is completely necessary. With Total War it's more of a campaign focus, and Space Combat is an essential part of every Star Wars Campaign, even if it is not an essential part of every battle.

So in summary:
If SWGB2 remains the same scale as SWGB1 -> no space combat.
If SWGB2 grows to an epic-scale RTS -> must have space combat.


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Old 03-25-2003, 11:00 PM   #8
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I have tons of ideas for the Space-based portion of GB2!

Right now, Here is my ideas for the Space Based version:

Empire:

Imperial Lander (Transport but with Lasers)
Imperial Lamdba Class Shuttle (Transport and Fighter)
Tie Fighter (Fighter)
Tie Interceptor (Fast Fighter)
Tie Advanced X1 (Advanced Fighter for Elite Pilots)
Tie Defender (Fighter)- EU
Tie Bomber (Bomber)
Tie Interdictor (Advanced Bomber)- EU

Imperial Class I Star Destroyer (Star Destroyer)
Imperial Class II Star Destroyer (Heavy Star Destroyer)
Super Star Destroyer (Executor type)
Maybe Death Star (Optional)

Rebel Alliance:

Z-95 Headhunter (Fighter)
X-wing (Fighter)
V-wing (Fighter)- EU
Y-wing (Bomber)
A-wing (Fighter)
B-wing (Capital Ship Fighter)
E-wing (Fighter)- EU
Armored Airspeeder (Optional)
Medium Transport (Transport with Lasers)

Corellian Corvette (Light Cruiser)
Medial Frigate (Medium Cruiser)
Mon Calamari Star Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser)

Republic:

Jedi Star Fighter (Episode II)
Republic Gunship (Episode II)
Republic Bomber (Episode II)
Republic Transport (GB1)

Republic Star Cruiser (From Episode I)
Republic Assualt Ship (Episode II)
Victory Class Star Destroyer (EU or possibly Episode III)
etc.

Trade Federation

Trade Federation Droid Controlled Fighter (Episode I)
Trade Federation Droid Controlled Bomber (GB1)
Trade Federation Transport with Lasers (From Episode I)

Trade Federation Droid Controlled Ship (Episode I)
Trade Federation Battleship (Episode I)

Royal Naboo:

N-1 Starfighter (Episode I)
Naboo Bomber (GB1)
Naboo Cruiser (Episode II)
Queen's Ship (Episode I)
Padme's ship (Episode II)

Make up some Cruiser type ships for Naboo.

I guess make some aircraft for Wookies, Gungans, Confederacy and if they have any other civilization that wasn't in GB1.
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:08 AM   #9
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Absolutely not.

Apart from having to have a 20Ghz, 100GB memory, 2GB Ram etc system specs, it would be rather laggy and the game would be of rather poor quality because of the amount of info, rules and units that would have to be included.

Instead they should make SWGB2, plus a 'Star Trek: Armada' or 'Star Trek: Fleet Command' style Star Wars spce-based RTS.


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Old 03-26-2003, 04:42 AM   #10
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I say SWGB 2 should be ground combat like SWGB, with space maps and air/space units ofcourse.
I have always preffered ground combat, but with airsupport.
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Old 03-26-2003, 08:02 AM   #11
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I think it would be cool with Both. they could also have a "Conquer the Galaxy," and you start out with maybe a Star Destroyer, and some frigats. You go to a planet, and conquer it. There would be many differentplanet with different "Rating," like Coruscant would be next to impossible while Dantooie ot Hoth would be like stealing candy from a baby. As you conquer planet, you get resources to build your fleet.army.

And I think you're Exaggerating a little too much Darth Windu. It can be done.
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:10 PM   #12
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I would like it if there were 2 scenario's, Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War. There each side has so-and-so planets (Empire always on Coruscant, etc.) There is a map of each planet. There are 3 modes. Ground, Space and Strategic.

Ground- Comes up whenever a planet is invaded. But u can go onto a planet any time in ground mode from Strategic mode to place buildings, position troops, manage resources, etc.

Space- I think there should only be one 3D space map for simplicity. Comes up whenever ships are engaged in space battle.

Strategic- This is where u see the galaxy as a whole, position armies and fleets, control taxes (u never know), and appoint governers to reduce micro in ground mode (I would like that)

Also characters and events would be cool (like Rebellion), but there should be options concerning that.


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Old 03-27-2003, 08:55 PM   #13
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I think it should be two seperate games but owning both would give you some kind of nice stuff....


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Old 03-27-2003, 10:17 PM   #14
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Ooh, I like that idea, Luke's Dad. Maxis has done integrated games with the Sim titles, but I'm unaware of any other games that do this. If LucasArts could pull it off, it would be great.

You could buy the Space RTS, and just play that, or buy the Ground RTS, and just play that, or if you buy both of them the games would be integrated. Every time you needed to capture a planet in the Space RTS, you play a ground battle. I think with a fair bit of careful designing it could work.


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Old 03-28-2003, 03:55 AM   #15
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2 separate games, why? It would mean LA gets more money commericially, but what about us fans?! We will have to wait for them to come out one-by-one.


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Old 03-28-2003, 05:45 AM   #16
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crazy dog - what would you prefer, a ground-based game and a seperate space-based game both done well, or one game covering space and ground done half-arsed?

It would be much better to have seperate games, and the whole 'conquer the galaxy' thing could be done with taking planets similar to 'Star Trek: Armada 2'.

I would also like to point out that SWGB2 would be bad for space battles because it would be the sequel to a GROUND-based game, not a combo. If they were going to make a combo it would not be called SWGB2.


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Old 03-28-2003, 07:37 AM   #17
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yes, it would be a welcomed change to see from all land battles and such.


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Old 03-28-2003, 08:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
If they were going to make a combo it would not be called SWGB2.
has it been officially been stated it's SWGB 2, or are we assuming it is, and it's really a relatd project?
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Old 03-28-2003, 09:09 AM   #19
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Being all in one game would give SWGB 2 unrivalled playability. Can you imagine having to do space battles first to try and hold off attacks to your planets, then, if that fails, having to prepare for ground assault?!

It would make this probably the best RTS game of all time (providing LA got the engine etc right).

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Old 03-28-2003, 12:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
crazy dog - what would you prefer, a ground-based game and a seperate space-based game both done well, or one game covering space and ground done half-arsed?
I go for a a 3rd option: A game that is excellent in both ypes of gameplay.


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Old 03-28-2003, 09:52 PM   #21
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I think it's better to have two games. It's actually really hard to make an all in one game.
I'd rather have a well made ground rts and a well made space rts then one big game that's not really well made like windu said.
It's a question of quality. Besides, you can own both...


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Old 03-29-2003, 07:10 AM   #22
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Yes, we can own both, but u know, it is way better if this scenario is possible:
The Separatists (you) are advancing on Coruscant. A space battle begins. They win, but with many casualties. Therefore, becuase some of thier transports are blown up, they cannot send as many troops down there, and in the battle orbital bombardment is not possible, which it otherwise would be.


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Old 03-29-2003, 08:42 AM   #23
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Sadly, Crazy_dog, I see SWGB2 to be more of a medium-scale rts.
But if you own both games, you might have the bonus of conquering Coruscant like you said while having to seperate great games instead of only one who's half-assed.


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Old 03-31-2003, 06:37 AM   #24
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Phreak - the question was 'should SWGB2 combine space and ground battles'

Crazy Dog - here's the thing, woul di like to see a well-made Star Wars game combing space and ground battles? Yes, i think it would be fantastic. Do i think it can be done? No.

The concept here is simply too big. Have any of your supporting this gotten past the 'wow' factor and actually considered this realistically? The game would be too big, too complicated and would require too much from the computer running it.

Instead there should be seperate games for a space-based and a ground-based Star Wars RTS, although the ground-based could include something like RoN's 'conquer the world'


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Old 03-31-2003, 07:44 AM   #25
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would this be a good set up?

There are 3 maps per"level" one space, and two planet.

You each start on one planet, and then there is a special command to send your planets up in to space( second map comes in here). You then ned to use a "hyperspace" counter so that you can't go back and forth immediately, and there are such things you need to swerve or destroy, such as mines and such.
You then need to descend on to your opponent's planet, where you can unload your troop forces, and use fighters and troops to rain terror upon your foe.


I don't think it is a bad idea, do you?


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Old 03-31-2003, 12:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Phreak - the question was 'should SWGB2 combine space and ground battles'

Crazy Dog - here's the thing, woul di like to see a well-made Star Wars game combing space and ground battles? Yes, i think it would be fantastic. Do i think it can be done? No.

The concept here is simply too big. Have any of your supporting this gotten past the 'wow' factor and actually considered this realistically? The game would be too big, too complicated and would require too much from the computer running it.

Instead there should be seperate games for a space-based and a ground-based Star Wars RTS, although the ground-based could include something like RoN's 'conquer the world'
BUT, it has been done. Medieval: Total War has done it, yes without space battles but they can be added on.


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Old 03-31-2003, 08:04 PM   #27
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Combining space and ground is really not a bad idea but it's not doable!!!! That's the problem.


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Old 03-31-2003, 08:10 PM   #28
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I totally agree with Windu on this.

1) Two separate games means more money for LucasArts, which although that might seem bad to us, the consumers, it will mean LucasArts will be able to afford to make even better games in the future, which in turn will give us better games.

2) The way the commercial software world works means that fitting heaps of cool features into one game is harder to do than splitting those features amongst two separate games. Specific deadlines are enforced on titles regardless of how many features they have. Having two titles will effectively give LucasArts twice as much time to make the game great.

3) While DMUK believes putting them in the one game would be revolutionary in the RTS genre, I disagree. It will probably just be seen as an improvement on Rebellion, especially if it is not done well (which is highly likely because of point number 2). However, making two self-sufficient games that join to make a larger, greater game is revolutionary for RTS games.

4) If you want a quick ground battle, you play the ground-game. If you want a quick space battle, you play the space game. If you want an epic war combining both, you play the combined game. Having a single game means it would be harder introduce this flexibility, as you will most likely be forced to play both space and ground at the same time, which can only lead to long games.


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Old 04-01-2003, 02:53 AM   #29
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But time will stop whenever there is a battle going on.


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Old 04-01-2003, 07:32 AM   #30
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well, there's one problem with two games: if each one is a completely separate game, you'll pay 100 dollars for both! I wouldn't pay that, and a lot of others wouldn't. They need to be in one game.


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Old 04-01-2003, 12:03 PM   #31
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Old 04-02-2003, 12:29 AM   #32
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I would agree with the statement about two separate games means probably $100. It would be cheaper for customers to have both in one game. I am no millionaire. Money doesn't grow on trees. I am sure with computer technology the way it is that is possible to have good space combat and ground combat in one game. I wouldn't buy two separate games totally $100 or more. Plus, Lucasarts takes a long time to develop their games. If it takes them till December 2004 or sometime before Episode III in May 2005 to just make one game. Then they will probably take another two years to make the space portion of it. By then, I wouldn't be interested in RTS games probably because of me working full-time.
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Old 04-03-2003, 07:50 PM   #33
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I would rather buy two games to get a totally awesome game than buy one that doesn't live up to expectations. And believe me, one game incorporating all this stuff will not live up to expectations because it would just be too hard to make in the time they get.

Newsflash: LucasArts would rather sell you two games than one.


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Old 04-03-2003, 07:54 PM   #34
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I got a compromise here. You know how they'd get two teams of people to make separate games? Just have them work on one game, but use two teams for it. Also, have them charge an additional 10-15 dollars. Not too bad, and it would improve quality by a lot.


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Old 04-03-2003, 11:17 PM   #35
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That's a fine idea but it is not the way the software industry works.


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Old 04-04-2003, 10:49 PM   #36
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Sadly that's true. I also think it's a nice idea.

They look for profit man. Profit.


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Old 04-05-2003, 09:35 PM   #37
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Now that DarthMaul has posted that Garry Gaber's project wasn't titled Galactic Battlegrounds related project but Garry Gaber related project I am so upset. That means it may not be a strategy game or Star wars. Well, I guess i will be in here alot less now.
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Old 04-05-2003, 10:52 PM   #38
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as for that loss of profit thingy, if you sell a lot of the product, such as JK2, and it is good quality, you'll get more profit than if you use half that labor and sell 1/3 as much, well, I think you get it.

Sell it for 75 dollars, but get a very nicely made game, with all the trimmings. I'd buy that, most likely. But it would need to be very good (hence the two teams of programmers)


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Old 04-06-2003, 01:25 AM   #39
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I hope Garry is working on some type of Star Wars RTS game. I just hope it isn't something stupid like a non-star wars RTS game for Lucasarts. I wonder if they could release a Space combat RTS that is Star Wars. I don't know much about engines but Age of Kings looks like it was meant for ground RTS games. Then again, I am just a star wars video game fan. What do I know!
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Old 04-06-2003, 07:47 AM   #40
Crazy_dog no.3
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Quote:
Originally posted by joesdomain
Now that DarthMaul has posted that Garry Gaber's project wasn't titled Galactic Battlegrounds related project but Garry Gaber related project I am so upset. That means it may not be a strategy game or Star wars. Well, I guess i will be in here alot less now.
When'd he post that?


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