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Old 05-09-2003, 04:21 AM   #1
SkinWalker
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Economic Control of the Region?

After reading this PDF document, can there be any doubt that there is more going on than simply rooting out WMDs and ending the regime of a tyrant?

I realize that many of the proponents of the Invasion of Iraq that have frequented the Senate are quite young and that the existance of Saddam Hussain is hard to understand, but I assure you, there have been, are now, and allways will be the type of human being in power that can rise to or surpass Saddam's madness.

We would be a very busy police force indeed if we attempted to root them all out. We would also be a very busy police force if we attempt to disarm even just the "unfriendly" nations of their WMDs.

But maintaining control of the economy of oil makes us very good capitalists, not to mention typical.

I urge you all to seriously evaluate the actions of our current adminstration. It will be up to us to choose our leaders in 2004 and the Bush admin counts on "ignorance of the people" in order to maintain status quo. Don't accept everything your hear as necessarily complete or even true. To be sure, I apply this type of critical thinking to all candidates and incombants before voting. I rarely vote a straight ticket.

If you don't have Acrobat reader, you won't be able to read the photocopy of the letter above, which is to Rumsfeld from Rep. Waxman. Very interesting stuff.


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Old 05-09-2003, 02:04 PM   #2
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Thanks SkinWalker for making this Lucid information available to us.
Have never payed muh attention to Waxman but obviously his people have done their homework.


This double standard of judging the actions of former political opponents while violating the same standards X10 is as dangerous as any foreign threat.
My fear of attacks from outside this country pale in comparison to the fear generated by the anti-human anti-democratic hypocrits running rough shod over American values.


SKINWALKER SAID, "We would be a very busy police force indeed if we attempted to root them all out. We would also be a very busy police force if we attempt to disarm even just the "unfriendly" nations of their WMDs."

Touche,
At this time over 80% of the worlds recognized goverments are non democratic and do not share the U.S. value system, shall we do to all of them what we did to Iraq?

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Old 05-10-2003, 12:48 AM   #3
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shall we do to all of them what we did to Iraq
If you live by your conscience, the answer would have to be yes, even if it is a difficult task.


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Old 05-10-2003, 12:59 AM   #4
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this sounds alot like world domination to me. *goes to destroy bush*


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Old 05-10-2003, 11:58 AM   #5
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I'd rather have "American-style world domination" than, say "Baath-style world domination." Most everyone would, if those were the only choices.


Wilhuf

Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

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Old 05-10-2003, 12:17 PM   #6
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I'd rather have "American-style world domination" than, say "Baath-style world domination." Most everyone would, if those were the only choices.
Of course. But there will never be a Baath-style world domination. And it certainly doesn't mean American world domination is any good.

A social democratic world domination wouldn't be so bad, though.


Give the country back to the Iraqis, as you promised.


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Old 05-10-2003, 12:49 PM   #7
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Give the country back to the Iraqis, as you promised.
I'll get right on that, Breton!


Serious qestion : do you really fear American world domination? Do you really think that the US will "take over the world"?



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A social democratic world domination wouldn't be so bad, though.
Imperialist! You are trying to impose your ways on the rest of the world! Oh no!


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Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

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Last edited by Wilhuf; 05-10-2003 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 05-10-2003, 03:21 PM   #8
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Originally posted by Breton

Give the country back to the Iraqis, as you promised.
Sadly, it's not that simple. We have a responsibility as the occuppying power to help rebuild infrastructure and provide security and health services in spite of what the Iraqis want.

I do, however, think that the process should be expedited as quickley as possible, but just pulling out would leave the country open to many forms of aggression, both from within and from without. It is better to begin by re-establishing systems and proceedures to get the daily routine moving again.

Perhaps the Bush admin's "Free trade zone" idea will be the catalyst needed to do this, though I need to read more on the subject as outlined by the admin.

One thing that I would like to see the U.S. forces do is distribute leaflets similar to the ones used in the psy ops campaign, but used now to indicate the need for proper sanitation and avoidinance of river water for water sources. A cholera epidemic could be only days away and there are already indications of cholera outbreaks.


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Old 05-11-2003, 02:07 PM   #9
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3017643.stm


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Old 05-11-2003, 06:53 PM   #10
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I'd rather have "American-style world domination" than, say "Baath-style world domination." Most everyone would, if those were the only choices.
I'm not sure that you are right there. I'm simply not convinced that the majority of the world's population wants democracy. Much less a US-dominated world.

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Give the country back to the Iraqis, as you promised.
A notoriously poor idea. Dubya has seated himself right in a nest of hornets with this Iraq deal. If you pull out now, then there'll probably be an Islamic revolution, and you'll have another Iran on your hands. A Dictatorship that oppresses religion is better than a religious dictatorship any old day.

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Old 05-12-2003, 12:56 AM   #11
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Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
I'm not sure that you are right there. I'm simply not convinced that the majority of the world's population wants democracy. Much less a US-dominated world.
I'm sure a U.S. dominated world would be undesireable to most of the worlds "developing" nations, but the United Nations Development Programme's Human Development Report indicates that Democracy is the best chance people have of securing their human rights.

In the words of the HDR:
Quote:
Democracy has proven to be the system of governance most capable of mediating and preventing conflict and of securing and sustaining well-being. By expanding people's choices about how and by whom they are governed, democracy brings principles of participation and accountability to the process of human development.
However, as with any system of government, there are weaknesses. Here's another interesting quote.

Quote:
Originally posted quoted by Julius Caesar
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry.
Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done.
And I am Caesar."


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Old 05-13-2003, 12:13 PM   #12
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Give the country back to the Iraqis, as you promised.
I suppose if any of the people who read that took Iraq away from the Iraqis, we might be able to do this. But we didnt.... the government did. Try to distinguish between the government and the people...

Good quote from Caesar, Skinwalker. But is that really a weakness in a particular system of government? It seems to me that that phenomena could occur under most regimes, assuming they're not terribly oppressive. Certainly not exclusive to democracy (although it can happen there too).


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Old 05-13-2003, 12:45 PM   #13
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Originally posted by ShockV1.89
I suppose if any of the people who read that took Iraq away from the Iraqis, we might be able to do this. But we didnt.... the government did. Try to distinguish between the government and the people...
I know. I actually thinks it is important to distinguish between them myself. The goverment is never the people. But I wasn't talking directly to anyone. I was pretty much talking to the US goverment and those who supports it. Though I guess I should have called them 'they' instead.


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Old 05-16-2003, 11:29 AM   #14
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Funny..

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Old 05-20-2003, 10:24 AM   #15
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Skin: You and I both know that Democracy is the best form of government if you look at any kind of objective criteria. However it is equally obvious that religion is false, if you apply any kind of objective criteria. But people still cling to religion. Similarily, people in many places will, I guess, cling to despositm/theocracy for some incomprehencible reason.

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