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Old 07-06-2003, 11:03 PM   #81
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As far as ragdoll goes, it's not animation based. It's just Ghoul2 collisions on surfaces - I'm not sure why JK2 doesn't have it, probably because the Ghoul2 collision system takes up a lot of CPU cycles.


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Old 07-06-2003, 11:10 PM   #82
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Thanks Emon, I'm back on business Wudan . What I meant with animations and ragdolls is that I won't have to make death and being shot anims, which are the most difficult to make it believable.

And I didn't see ragdolls on JA yet, just a few demos from Havok, although JA's are Havok's. But it's enough to have the right idea of ragdolls.



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Old 07-07-2003, 02:49 AM   #83
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JA is going to use Havok? That doesn't make sense ... they have such a thing already 75% implemented with Ghoul2 collision detection ...


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Old 07-07-2003, 03:57 AM   #84
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Fe de Errate: JA's are not Havok's

Sorry bout that Wudan, sometimes I forget to write some stuff .



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Old 07-07-2003, 04:03 AM   #85
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Wudan, sorry I don't want to have the post go off-topic, but I was wondering:
Do you think that you coukd implement a clothing mod for Jedi Academy once it is released, since they will have "ragdoll" (don't know how ragdoll it will be lol), maybe you could use the Ghoul2 collision detection on cloaks and things to prevent them from clipping, and then write an algorithm of some sort to make realistic cloth movement? Oh well, just me wishing I guess
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Old 07-07-2003, 07:53 AM   #86
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I'll field that question. Wudan's working on the format end of ghoul2. I have more experience with the API.

Anyway, yes, it's possible. We could probably whip up a system with a generic cloak that bolts to the player models. However, the hard part would be making the cloak look good without messing up the frame rate.

I bet I could do it. Heck, that's a cool idea.

[thinking]
To keep things simply, we'd probably have to restrict things to simple cloaks. Jedi robes are cool, but they would require custom models for every player model (as each player model is shaped differently) and would have to account for player movement inside the robes.

However, I'd need a bad ass modeller to create a cloak model with correct specifications.

I will meditate on this.
[/thinking]

Tihs would be a great starting point for my Open Jedi Project concept for JKA.

[thread hijack]
I'm thinking the best way to approach JKA modding will be with a uber-mod that adds as many cool features as possible to the game. It would an open source project as to encourage as many people to use it (and contribute to it) as possible.
[/thread hijack]


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Old 07-07-2003, 12:10 PM   #87
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Actually, such a thing is possible. You could even do capes in JK2 that don't suck ass, it's just that the project would be soooo time consuming and the effect would be about 5 to 10 seconds of "ooooh, that's nifty"

I was thinking just make a cape or robe bolt on the player's shoulders and write up some cloth handling functions, the effect would be entirely client side, and would undoubtedly have clipping problems with the wall walking and rolling animations - unless you just spent a lot of time working on making it more and more real.


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Old 07-07-2003, 12:13 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
[thread hijack]
I'm thinking the best way to approach JKA modding will be with a uber-mod that adds as many cool features as possible to the game. It would an open source project as to encourage as many people to use it (and contribute to it) as possible.
[/thread hijack]
This is a great idea. Tchouky (the TCK saber guy, for those of you who don't know) suggested something very similar to this in jk2coding a while back, where we oft ask the tough questions like "wtf went wrong with jk2 modding" and while away the hours discussing technique and possibility.


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Old 07-07-2003, 04:14 PM   #89
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Could we start a new thread/dialog about the Open Jedi Project?

I really like the concept - perhaps we can take this discsussion offline from Wudan's thread?



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Old 07-07-2003, 04:31 PM   #90
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Man capes would be really cool, you could even add special moves to confuse opponents with spins and stuff (I.E. blue style spins ) man that would be fun...
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Old 07-07-2003, 05:38 PM   #91
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Here's what I found on ASE after a quick Google. For more details you'll want to Google even more.

http://www.solosnake.com/main/ase.htm


And clothing is already possible, and not have it suck. Proper weighting will prevent clipping issues with the rest of the model. Deus Ex's trenchcoats are a perfect example of this. When someone with a coat runs, their legs appear to push the coat out of the way. When someone turns their head, it pushes the collar out of the way.

And lastly, I'm planning on making an opensource mod for JA to get SP games into MP, if there aren't too many limitations or anything. I'll have to wait for JA and it's tools to come out before making an accurate decision about it, though.
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Old 07-07-2003, 08:28 PM   #92
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Capes and cloth could look allright with no clipping thanks to a good vert weighting process. But It won't look realistic even if the best modeller makes it. That's not a modeller's issue, is more an animations thing. Unless you have physics, you need bones to make the cloth move like they're supposed.



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Old 07-07-2003, 08:36 PM   #93
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Emon, that would require new models for all the players and/or possibly a new skeletal structure.

Anyway, I've set up a thread for the Open Jedi Project.
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...hreadid=104564


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Old 07-07-2003, 08:38 PM   #94
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So nice that we've strayed off course :P

Not to worry, I'm going to make a new topic for this as I have a new name for my tools, but I'm not going to say much until model functionality is in place.


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Old 07-10-2003, 03:47 PM   #95
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It wouldn't, razorace. If you weight it properly it won't clip. The way I described Deus Ex sounds like they have animations for the clothing, but they don't.
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Old 07-10-2003, 11:50 PM   #96
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Well, my concern is getting the cloak to react dynamically to movement and the only way I can imagine doing that (with what we got) would be to use ghoul2 bones to move the cloak around.


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Old 07-11-2003, 01:42 AM   #97
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1. Yes, razorace, that would be great. I was just talking about proper weighting so it doesn't look like ass.

2. Wudan, up top you said processing power is probably why JO doesn't have ragdoll. Since OpenGL is so CPU heavy, perhaps Raven is not adding a lot of detail to their levels to save processing power for ragdoll?
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Old 07-11-2003, 05:46 AM   #98
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1. Well, sure. Looking like ass is bad.

2. I know you asked Wudan but I'll toss some of my two cents on it. It's possible that Raven is doing that but I doubt it. Personally, I think it was just a matter of not having time to do it. JO was done in a relatively short period of time and ragdoll isn't a mission critical feature (especially if you have it only affecting players after death) and is very complicated to do right. Heck, HL2 and UT2003 used outside contractors to handle it.


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Old 07-11-2003, 08:35 PM   #99
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Not 'outside contractors', they used Havok.

It's just soft-body physics. If you've got ragdoll 'deaths' then you can have soft-body physics without too much more trouble.


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Old 07-12-2003, 04:09 AM   #100
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Havok is developed by an "outside contractor". And technically UT2003 uses Karma. It may or may not be made by the same people.

And I think you're underestimating the effort required to accurately simulate a human body in motion. There's muscle tensions, bone structures, breaking pressures, etc that have to be accurately modeled for the bodies to fall realistically.


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Old 07-12-2003, 06:20 AM   #101
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Yeah, limitations of the human body are the hard part. You have to make sure the bones don't move too far into physically impossible positions. Although, it would be incredibly cool if legs would bust and go in the wrong direction after a huge fall.
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Old 07-12-2003, 06:58 AM   #102
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Yeah, that would be the ultimate, dynamic stress-based bone structures with realistic body flop. Being able to slice people in half or break bones (dynamically) would also be kickass.


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Old 07-12-2003, 11:31 AM   #103
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If it can happen in reality, it can be described with mathematics. If it can be described in mathematics, it can be described in code. Thusly, the veil of Isis has been lifted: the true goal is to mirror our reality, digitally.

Hmmm... soft body physics... realistic human motion... maybe I've researched that SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY TO WRITING AN ANIMATION PROGRAM?


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Old 07-12-2003, 05:27 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by wudan
maybe I've researched that SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY TO WRITING AN ANIMATION PROGRAM?
NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111! !!111
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Old 07-12-2003, 05:43 PM   #105
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dude, totally

:P

count on emon to make with the wise-crackin


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Old 07-13-2003, 05:53 AM   #106
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By the way, wudan, please read over this: http://lucasforums.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=104564
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:34 PM   #107
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Read it. I have my reservations about such a project, but then again, I have no idea what I'll be doing at that time.


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