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Old 04-24-2003, 05:01 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by eizo131
Echuu good point but if you noticed in CC generals all the civs were very unique that would be hard to do for 8 civs. (even if you make the GR and GE a little alike and get rid of those walking carpets....)

I Said it before use the confedracy war room map as the basis of the engine, it has scale done well, it is in 3d....
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On topic: I haven't tried CC Generals (Because there isn't a demo), but it should be no problem for Lucas, at least, I think so...Hmm...maybe

Hmm...Maybe, if you used that war room as the base thing, you could click on a part of the map, and then you zoomed in, and came to that spot, and it used the engine! Can you follow me so far?


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Old 04-24-2003, 05:47 PM   #82
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No!

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I like the "war room" idea becuase it was the thing used in the movies. Maybe it could be used as the ground combat part (if the next SW RTS used a conquer the galaxy thing)


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Old 04-25-2003, 07:16 AM   #83
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Yes I am following echuu. Sounds like a good idea. My friend has CC generals, the civs are very unique and making 8 (probably more) very unique civs would be a complete nightmare. Yes I am sure LA could make something but still... it would take very long time.


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Old 04-25-2003, 02:00 PM   #84
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Oh, someone who understands me ! Yes, but we would prefer a very good game over a not-so good game, right?!


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Old 04-25-2003, 05:01 PM   #85
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Well I understood that part!


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Old 04-26-2003, 05:56 AM   #86
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Too bad I have a 8 MB video card. i really wanted to get C&C Generals but slow video card. I think i was told I can upgrade to a 64MB Radeon PCI video card. I hope I can get enough money saved to buy one.


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Old 04-26-2003, 06:03 AM   #87
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It diffrent than all the other CC games I have ever played. (not renegade)

So any other ideas?


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Old 04-26-2003, 11:14 PM   #88
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Is Command and Conqurer Red Strike a good game? I was thinking about buying that one and giving it a shot.


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Old 04-27-2003, 10:05 AM   #89
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I think so, but that is my opinion. I hated the second one to much sci-fi the first was really good. If you get it play as the Soviets, they have the best of everything (except troopers).


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Old 04-27-2003, 10:29 AM   #90
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I always play as Soviets becuase I'm Russian.


joesdomain- Red Strike? I don't think I've heard of it. Do u mean Renegade or Red Alert/RA2????


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Old 04-29-2003, 02:07 AM   #91
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I think he means 'Command and Coquer Red Alert: Counterstrike'

Darthmauluk- are you nuts? RoN hasnt even come out yet so how could it be a 'very old engine'?


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Old 04-30-2003, 09:48 PM   #92
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If they make a space-combat Star Wars strategy game then maybe one of the current games that is space-combat might make a good choice for an engine since it is in space and not on the ground.


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Old 05-22-2003, 12:28 PM   #93
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Well, I remember some people mentioning RoN would make a good engine..... it's out now. Anybody play the demo yet? If not, get it HERE. I got about 150kbs.

Now that I've played RoN, I don't think it'd be the best of engines. I like the way you can have major battles (and nukes ), but the way it tech levels progess, it doesn't feel... "Star Warsey" to me. What are your opinions?
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Old 05-22-2003, 01:02 PM   #94
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Dunno...But the Demo is on 194 MB!


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Old 06-22-2003, 02:14 AM   #95
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I think the engine should retain the editor style of SWGB, with the triggers and all, but with more conditions and effects, in 3D and with more features, like Age of Mythology. As long as I've got a game that has a good editor that I can use to create good RPG-style scenarios, I'm happy.


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Old 07-12-2003, 10:43 AM   #96
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I personally think L.A should make their own engine. I haven't played force commander but from wehat i've read about it and looked at it , it seems a very star wars focused game... and it isn't very sucessful it seems, GB would be much more. I dont know if L.A could even get the rights to the AOM or RON engine now. Ensemble is tied in with microsoft now, remember that big large corporate company that buys a lot of other ones out?

So what i say, is make an engine, similar to that of AoK's/SWGBs etc, but with much better graphical quality. Although i only read a few of the first posts, LA sure arent gonna stop time for someone with a real crap computer, but for someone like me with a 933mhz~ 128MB(upgrade soon!!) and 16MB TNT2 (i know its crap) i think its fair enough the game should run ok. What im saying is the system requirements/graphics shouldnt be like that of generals; but not of AoK's either. Maybe the level you might be looking at is RoN. It is true that in 2 years time the system requirements will probably be 512MB RAM and around 1GHZ with a good video card, but i dont think that many people will upgrade their computers as they did, when say windows 3.11 is was around. Why? Because people with computers like me can now surf the internet, play music and chat at the same time, even play videos, without relativly hardcore computers.. The bulk of the internet would be like this. Half of the people playing SWGB are 15 and below i bet; they wouldnt have jobs and wouldnt be able to buy real good computers...(in fact i'm 14 or you could consider me 15 as my birthday is the end of the year heh). Not everyone is going to upgrade their computers for a game, i definly havent, i could of spent say my birthday money or the money i get for doing the dishes but i chose to spend it on other things.. Consider SWGB's online community is made up of a lot of that[people with ~ok computers, who for some reason dont or cant get another/upgrade]. With a large or even decent online community a game can be very successful, even if it isn't the flashest game. Look at RoN now.. basically anyone who played it at some stage or plays it will say it could of been one of the greatest RTS's in a while if its multiplayer only wasnt so buggy. In addition i think gamespy has made deals with BHG so they cant encourage people to go on gamespy arcade (it comes with RoN).. The inbuilt multiplayer system is obviously far better without the hassles of adds and such. When i looked Gamespy arcade had about 100 people on for RoN, and in the multiplayer servers there were 80-or so(it dosent show people who are playing). The more people=more to play=more variety=more fun/more of a competition feeling/more of a challenge. It also means more popularity for the game. I know a lot of people on zone who have gotten their friends playing, heck i even tried to get my friends playing but to no avail.

The point im trying to make: not everyone has an athlon 2.8GHZ(or whatever) 512MB ram and a radeon 9600 or whatever lol.
and i bet not even half of the players on the zone or who used to play on the zone had system specs like that. Without multiplayer i would of quit SWGB within 2 weeks, but instead i player it for over a year consistently probably. Honestly i dont know how you survived if you've been playing this game for over a year and never played multiplayer, or at least went on the zone a few times a week. I've tried scenarios, made a few of my own had a bit of fun, modding which involved too much effort, Random Map Script Editing which was too hard for me lol, online scenarios which get boring after a while downloaded campaigns which are pretty boring death match which is ok i suppose and playing random map. Want to know the order of fun i had? 1. Random map 2. Scenarios 3. Death match 4. Scenario making ... etc
You guys might not agree but i bet at least half the zone would .. i would never of bothered playing online if my computer ran GB too poorly.

Minimal system specs should be rising but no computer game can go to overboard, like i made in my point not everyone has super systems.. mp3's and surfing the net dont take super computers.. a lot of people wont upgrade their computers to play some new game. Sure die hard RTS fanatics who play WC3 AOM RON etc would, but one of the reasons SWGB wasn't super popular was that it probably looked childish to them, they thought less of it because it was star wars (which we all know is a load of crap, this game blows aok and many other games..).

In otheer words high system specs=less people=less fun=less success=crap game which is abandoned by its company early.


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Old 07-12-2003, 11:17 AM   #97
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oops i forgot to post what the engine shuld be like.

Since this is course star wars, i dont think the star wars universe really experienced "ages/techs", and i dont think at any point during the history of the star wars universe or even mankind did troops move as fast as trooper recruits, so teching up i think should be changed around. The engine could be based on this. It would have decent graphics (think RoN style, im not sure how AoM is, WC3 is ok, RoN runs slow on my comp but it'll almost definly be upgraded in 2 years time because of my liking for games..) even in 2 years time i dont think everyone will have 3 GHZ 512MB ram Radeon pro's etc... maybe the RAM but nufin else. So moderate graphics, maybe improvment on RON's quality. Now for how the game works itself as in units and their special abilities i think the game should be shifted toward WC3 as in unit abilities. Jedi in the movies certainly could take on more than 10 troops without dieing; they should get more powers. Converting was about the only special ability in GB i think, these special abilities should be expanded on, so the engine should be designed to accomodate this. A few more powers etc., maybe some other units should get abilities ie unique units. I also think the way in which air units worked should be changed. All they were, were ground units that couldnt be hit by ground units(unless they had AA). They died very quickly in battles with other planes and certainly didnt and couldnt behave in the manner they did in the movies. Maybe they could crash rather than self destruct in mid air, little things like that to make them more air-like. The space idea also needs to be picked up on in the engine, currently the space system works like the earth is flat supporting the theory that the earth was flat in early times, lol. It worked well on senate type games with metallic platforms and so forth, even for cloud city type scenarios, but in spacemass or space asteroids it felt totally fake. Dont know how L.A would change this but they probably should. Maybe sheilds should be changed to reflect dome sheilds where you can actually see the whole top of the shield like you see in ep1 and many sci fi shows/movies.

A lot of hotkey/micromanagment type stuff should be incorporated, things we have already seen such as queuing units, but now with queuing research and upgrades, infinite queue such as that seen in rise of nations, workers that might mine a resource when idle etc. That kind of thing, but with the ability to be turned off.

Basically i think LA should develop a new engine and work on what they implemented when they used the AoK engine to give it a more star warsy feel. Maybe some units could have second stances/modes. As in Battlegrounds where you have agressive, defensive, stand ground and no attack stance, in the new SW RTS you could have normal, which is the normal ai type stance where they might follow units for a while, which is default. You could have a bounty hunter, lets imagine it as jango fett.
On normal stance he has his blaster, typical trooper type blaster, then if you click the stance button again like in rise of nations it changes to his next stance, which could be, say a flamethrower. His range could decrease and maybe his speed for balance reasons. Next stance could be raid, buildings are only targeted if no units are present, raze where buildings are targeted by default etc. In this way many units could work in 2 ways, you could have ranged and melee units. You could have stealth mode for example which gives a unit a minor cloaking ability which makes him visible for only a few seconds, every now and then(like you might seen in FPS such as perfect dark maybe..) but decreases his speed for added stealth... when he attacks he is visible, his shot could be quieter etc
there are many possibilities to this idea and it presents a way where second functions to units could be added, in(secondary weapons), like ive seen around in a few of these SWGB2 posts. Or rather you could just have another button in the sidebar which is default set to stance 1 which would be basic attack for all units, then for special units such as bounty hunters and jedi who would be rather expensive by the way could have the stance button clickable to change to their alternate units.
Things such as convert would still be in the little sidebar however..


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Old 07-24-2003, 11:09 PM   #98
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I'll be honest and tell you I haven't read the thread except for the first few lines of Skythe's last post.

I agree with him, if you remember I've said this previously: Tech levels should be taken out. Progress should be only through technologies.

As for my personal opinion, the engine should be new, no borrowing this time.


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Old 08-18-2003, 01:14 PM   #99
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I think the Generals engine is great and far superior in terms of Star Wars than AoM, since AoM is primarily ancient stuff and would be more suitable for Fantasy.


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Old 08-25-2003, 05:14 AM   #100
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wow, I am pretty new here... finally got around to reading this thread... Pretty long one and has a lot of good ideas and bad ideas... So i just wanted to add my thoughts into the fray....

I see a lot of talk about this RoN or the AOM engine stuff and my question to everyone is why must we have age progression??? I mean both of these engines are based on that... Is it needed to get the starwars feel ? NOO... SWGB i think was poorly done because of this...The progression in tech areas was not needed. It does not play a vital role in the star wars storyline... nor does it really have any major affect in gameplay... I think if we went back to some of the best RTS games known to man... Such as Starcraft.. We see that a good RTS can be made with unquie races, great detail and a good storyline... you can have a winner. This is why i agree with those who see the Generals engine as an option... For those who have ever worked with the engine know how large scale it can be... How easy it would be to get a game of this massive scale going using that engine...

I also think there is no need for 8 or 9 races... we can get by with just 3 or 4... We do not need to have some massive selection to make a great SW RTS game... Some of the best games have little selection when it comes to detail but some of the best gameplay out there.. especially the star wars series of games. So i think that we need to use the generals engine and keep the game relativly simple in its race selection but detialed in its options and units and especially story line.
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Old 11-02-2003, 07:23 AM   #101
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I find that the C&C Generals Engine would suit it perfectly

If youve seen the effects for Batle For middle Eart, there high detailed cannon fodder scenes would be perfect for somthing like the clone wars.

So i suggest a modified Generals Engine:
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Old 11-07-2003, 02:03 AM   #102
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yep! C&C Generals Engine is da bomb!
I suggest that you guys make the ideas simpler...I mean..C&C Generals is VERY SIMPLE comparing to SWGB

we want a fun game, not a complicated game
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Old 11-11-2003, 09:39 AM   #103
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Well I just had a look at The Battle for Middle Earth, and Ritz Cracker you are right. If EA can do everything they say they are going to do to the Generals Engine to make The Battle for Middle Earth, it will be by far the best engine out there, and with a few more tweaks it could be perfect for a Star Wars RTS.

They plan to make it so that there are "cannon fodder" units, that will just fight without you directing them exactly, so you can concentrate on controlling your heroes or other important units. You can also control the cannon fodder, but it helps to facilitate huge battles with individual heroes like the ones in Lord of the Rings. This would be perfect for Star Wars, with the cannon fodder being the Troopers and your important heroes, jedi and mechs being more the more powerful units.

Let me just say I have very high hopes for this game, and if it turns into what they are hoping it to be, I'd say to go with this instead of any engine LucasArts could knock together. It will be a tried and tested one, and LucasArts will probably like that rather than having another potential Force Commander on their hands.


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Old 11-11-2003, 07:31 PM   #104
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I'm quite skeptical about this game. I've tried the War of the Ring Demo and it felt like a total WC3 rip-off.

But we're talking about Battle for Middle-Earth here so...

I'm not so sure about using the C&C: Generals SAGE engine(if that's the right name). In C&C:Generals, like all C&C games, the troopers are ridiculously ugly. I mean seriously with details at max they still look bad. They would have to change that since the New SW RTS will probably look more like C&C: Generals then Battle for Middle-Earth.(Although the troopers in Battle for Middle-Earth look great when you zoom on them).

They would have to modify it to make it more complicated a bit, 'cause in C&C: Generals, like pretty much all C&C games, it's simply one ressource, make a few guys then bash through which gets boring after awhile...


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Old 11-12-2003, 10:03 PM   #105
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I agree the Generals engine as it stands now would not be good for Star Wars. It's far too simplistic, and the game boils down to whoever can get their superweapons first. This is not how a Star Wars game should be. But after they modify it for The Battle for Middle Earth it will be awesome. Not only are the unit graphics brought up to the standard of the terrain, but they plan to make it easy to control whole epic armies and induicidual characters at the same time. Perfect for Star Wars.

As for War of the Ring, I downloaded the demo, and let me tell you it sucks. If the didn't use the WarCraft 3 engine, they sure went to every possible effort to make it identical to WarCraft 3, only with less civs. I would also like to add that I predicted this game would suck Please do not confuse it in any way with the brilliant piece of work that will be The Battle for Middle Earth.


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Old 11-13-2003, 05:54 AM   #106
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Well, this Battle for Middle Earth sounds like a good game. But exactly what kind of scale are we talking about? Does this mean that we'll need to be using heroes? Is the 'cannon fodder' idea really very Star Wars? And what about air units?


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Old 11-13-2003, 08:25 PM   #107
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It should be a huge scale since EA said the game would represent the epic battles of LotR.

Huge scale can be good for a Star Wars game.

As for heroes, this will be a bit weird for the New SW RTS, although doable. We also don't want uber heroes like the ones in LotR(even the Jedi ones).

Cannon Fodder: This will work for the Trade Fed, Confed, Republic, Empire and Gungans. The remaining civs shouldn't have this kind of thing.

Air Units: I don't think they should do it totally like C&C generals. They should just create something new for this.


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Old 11-14-2003, 12:22 AM   #108
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The game appears to be about the same scale as SWGB1. However, they want to make it feasible to control entire platoons of troops with the same ease as individual heroes. I'm not sure how they will do this, but I think it will be the best way to work with Jedi and other special sorts of units, as well as the main characters of a campaign.

The cannon fodder idea really represents the fact that heaps of Troopers are there to hold up the opposite army's heaps of troopers while your important units like Jedi, Mechs and Aircraft do their bit. Looking at every major battle in Star Wars, I think this works well. At Hoth, the Rebels had a lot of cannon fodder troops that got munched by the special units (AT-ATs), then the Empire deployed their own cannon fodder (Snowtroopers) to mop up. At Endor, the cannon fodder was Ewoks, because the Strike Team were more of a specialised type of troop. Naboo had heaps of obvious cannon fodder, and so did Geonosis. So I think it works for everyone.

As for Air Units, they've got Giant Eagles and Wraiths on Fell Beasts in BFME, which I'm assuming wouldn't work like air units in Generals, and as such I think Air could be integrated fine.


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Old 11-14-2003, 12:58 AM   #109
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Cannon Fodder: Although it is true that lots of troopers have been sent to "suicide" I don't think it really fits a civ as the rebellion, in general terms to do such a thing. A more Elite Trooper civ would tend to use them in better tactics then frontal assault which obviously isn't something the Rebels are best at.

The same thing applies to the Naboo and Wookiees.


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Old 11-14-2003, 04:04 AM   #110
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Hmm, I see your point. However since we don't actually know how this cannon fodder concept works, we can't say whether or not it suits Star Wars.

Another thing that might make the game a bit unsuitable is the possible emphasis it will have on seige, which isn't a huge part of Star Wars warfare. The only thing that comes close was Hoth, and that was hardly like the seiges of Lord of the Rings. Then again I'm sure if it was modified from Generals it can be changed back to being less seige-oriented.


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Old 11-14-2003, 04:10 PM   #111
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I haven't read a lot of the posts, but after thinking about it i think that LA should make their own engine and make the units more like they were in the movies.


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Old 12-06-2003, 11:54 PM   #112
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Thumbs up mythology engine

Of course the Age of Mythology engine!
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Old 12-24-2003, 08:55 PM   #113
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Haven't read most of the posts, but it seems like most peeps like the Generals engine...

Well, I like it too. I thought it would be too small-scale, but if EA decides to do a lotr game based on it, I suppose we can have big armies. Seems good to me.

I also think that Tech Levels should be taken out. I also HATE those damn Trooper Recruit --> Trooper ---> Hvy Trooper stuff. All the civs (I already pissed everybody off here with my choices (GE, Rebs, GR, Confeds)) should be completly unique, of course, as in WC3.

Of course the best bet would be to create their own engine, but I must say I've lost faith in LA (and no, LA didn't do crap in the making of KotOR).

I'm quite hungry for SW stuff right now... especially a RTS... So I guess I would buy anything they throw at me anyways...

And for God's sake, AoM and AoK is just the same crap. We want new stuff


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Old 01-22-2004, 04:40 AM   #114
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Hi DarthMaulUK !

Well use 3D engine of Command & Conquer Generals will be good but this C++ engine must be "translate" in assembler before.

So like that the game will not suck on "middle" machine like presently with Command & Conquer Generals.

Not everybody have Ati Radeon 9800 XT with Pentium EE 3.2 GHz with 1 GB 500 MHz DDR with SCSI 120 GB hard drive !

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Old 02-08-2004, 11:11 AM   #115
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I like the idea of using the C&C Generals engine. I love it's 3-D. It's good graphics right to the closed zoom.

I'm not really sure about the RoN engine. A CC is replaced with a city. And, I don't really think that the rebels founded too many cities during the GCW.

I haven't played AoMm so I don't know what that's like. But, from the screens, I don't like it. It looks flat. But what would I know.

I vote for C&C engine.


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Old 02-08-2004, 02:39 PM   #116
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Well, the AoM infantry units look a lot better then C&C Generals and in general I find AoM's graphics a lot better.

However, AoM's engine is not fit for playing a Star wars game while the C&C one, with a bit of tweaking, would be a lot better.


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Old 03-08-2004, 10:32 PM   #117
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ist not good to scale down your game for weaker graphics and less features because people still us pentium 3's. gotta think of the future, and yes you all will hafta upgrade your systems sooner or later so why not just do it and you can play all the games u want. i kno money is an issue but save up, and getting these computers on a payment plan isnt bad either. But i liked the engine they used for swgb, it had good graphics, good gameplay and it ran fine. Wat i would like to see is more population limit, and the ability to run that better. But i would like the game to be the style that the first one was, not anything like midival total war. But using any engine would be fine, just use the one that is gunna be able to run on higher end pc's for the future
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Old 03-14-2004, 11:37 AM   #118
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i dont give a crap
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Old 03-20-2004, 08:00 PM   #119
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My two cents worth

Alright, so I finally decided it was time for me to participate in the SWGB community after about two years I think it has been since its release. Anyway, what should SWGB2 be like you ask? Here's what I've got to say:
1. Graphical improvement required. I want to see the game go full 3-D allowing me to view my glorious army from more than one angle.
2. Drop the age/tech level upgrade along with a bunch of other upgrades. I found it silly that a TIE Fighter upgrades to an Interceptor. I want to see those two fighters fight side by side like in Ep VI. Same goes for the TIE Defenders and every other fighter in the game, Z-95 Headhunters are NOT the same thing as X-Wings!!! Some upgrades have got to go, it would allow for even MORE unit variety.
3. Jedi and Sith need more powers. The cloaking and converting was fine, but I want to choke a unit and zap him with bolts or push an army back a few steps to delay the attack a little while longer.
4. More air units. CAPITAL STARSHIPS DAMN IT!!! I want to be able to put a squadron of TIE Fighters inside a Star Destroyer and cart them over from my base to the enemy base and then unleash hell!!!
5. This is actually the topic of another thread but I'll talk about it here. Space battles and land battles should not mix. I didn't like fighting it out on "asteroids", it felt like Starcraft, I never saw that in the movies damn it. I want to pit my fleet against your fleet, space battles should be very different.
6. Let's talk about the engine. RoN would be nice because of the large scale of it but not so great because of the fact that cities aren't exactly built from ground up like in SWGB or AoE. So the grand armies of RoN would be nice but not the cities, fighting in cramped streets is fun. I haven't played Generals and I won't, it's not a true C&C game to me but it sounds like it uses a very similar air system to Total Annihilation. If anybody played that game, you know what I'm talking about. Total Annihilation had the greatest system for air units EVER. It was sheer brilliance, still is. I haven't found a game that has anything like that. The Hawks zooming by at unparalled speeds right by your screen, firing a few missiles and passing over their target, then slowing down, turning and going back to fire another round. Brilliance it was and that's what SWGB2 is gonna need. Bombers don't sit on top of their target, fire and get killed, they zoom over and splatter the place with bombs. In terms of engine, LA should make their own but must incorporate many good elements of other engines. It must also keep some things from the original SWGB, like fortresses, those beauties can keep you alive and buy you enough time for a counter attack if you place 'em right in your base. Some things must remain unchanged in SWGB2, but I think that there is a lot fo change to be done. I want more units and unit variety, I don't want to ugprade a heavy trooper in a repeater, those guys are too different for my taste. You should have a repeater and a heavy trooper, separate. Same goes for fighters. Once again, capital starships would do miracles and create some spectacular battles. Finally, 8 civs is nice, but I'm sure there are more than 8 civs in the SW universe. Anybody forgot about those Hapan guys, and the Corporate Sector Authority? They've got at least 60 plus star systems under their belt and could be very good civs.
Last word, SWGB and SWGB:CC were great, but as someone said elsewhere, they felt like really professional mods. A graphical boost in to 3D land, more units, change some things with upgrades and jedi/sith, throw in a few more civs to attempt to cover more of SW universe, and you might have yourself a winner. Here's hoping LA does it right.
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