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Old 07-17-2004, 02:58 PM   #1
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An alternative to Radiant?

I have 3ds max, and have used it to make maps for other games. I DONT want to learn a whole new program, as 3ds max confuses me enough. There has to be a plugin for 3ds max that makes it compatible with JA.... and is it possible to make models in 3ds max 6 and then import them into Radiant?


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Old 07-17-2004, 04:22 PM   #2
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Yeah, if you can export md3 or ASE


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Old 07-17-2004, 05:51 PM   #3
Lil Killa
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Get gmax and the tempest plugin for it. With it you can export your models as .maps or as .md3 models. (MD3 model exporter appears to be fecked though)

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Old 07-17-2004, 10:35 PM   #4
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i saw a tut on exporting to jk2... but is this possible with jk3

I want to use 3ds max


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Old 07-18-2004, 09:03 AM   #5
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Should be fine as some technology hasn't advanced really since JK2


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Old 07-18-2004, 02:08 PM   #6
WadeV1589
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3DS Max 6 can export to ASE which you can load up in Radiant, you will still have to caulk hull your map though and should really learn shaders to create the proper shaders for models that you want to act as maps


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Old 07-18-2004, 04:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by WadeV1589
3DS Max 6 can export to ASE which you can load up in Radiant, you will still have to caulk hull your map though and should really learn shaders to create the proper shaders for models that you want to act as maps
now that im more familiar with Radiant.... ill just make my plants and trees and other scenery in it. Thanks Guys.


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Old 07-18-2004, 07:30 PM   #8
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I would drop Radiant a long time ago as it’s one of the worst tools I’ve ever seen and had to work with. The editor itself is not bad but the Gtk GUI is the real "challenge". I don’t understand the idea of bringing slow and painful Linux GUI to Windows that offers much better and faster solutions. On the other hand I’m happy that it’s Gtk not QT.

There’s no doubt that it takes several times quicker and more comfortable to model the whole level in programs like 3ds but finally you always need to import your work in Radiant and then the real problems start

I was trying to find an alternative to Radiant but nobody could answer the question what happen if I import the whole level as an ASE model. http://www.splashdamage.org/index.ph...29387899e75c75

It took me about 3 days to model the whole map in 3D modeling program and almost 2 months to do the same thing in Radiant. The funny part is that at the end I reached q3map2 compilation limits and had to convert half of my map back to models.

I think, than the most effective way of building maps today is to create basic structures in Radiant and next to fill the map with ASE models; but you have already came to this yourself

Don’t try to use the MD3 exporter from Gmax because it’s broken.
This one should help you if you really need to create MD3 models:
http://www.splashdamage.org/index.ph...de34b9abf3aa14
But you only need them for moving elements like doors, platforms etc. ASE models are useful for static geometry.

ASE models are vertex lit by default but if you want them lightmapped you need to add the
“spawnflags” “4” key to the misc_model entity. See the fist SD link for details.

Alternatively you can modify entities_mp.def or/and entities_sp.def files and change the line:

/*QUAKED misc_model (0.2 0.2 1) (-16 -16 -16) (16 16 16)

to:

/*QUAKED misc_model (0.2 0.2 1) (-16 -16 -16) (16 16 16) x autoclip lightmap

The new "lightmap" button will appear in misc_model entity window and you won’t need to modify/learn/create any shaders.


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Old 07-18-2004, 09:53 PM   #9
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Im used to modeling everything in 3dsmax... then bringing it to another program to create weapon spawns, player spawns, vehicle spawns, add trees, plants, shaders, etc. This is different. It actually makes it much easier. You just have to know how to use it. I am really wanting to make my own terrain, because i can easily add tunnels, ditches, river-beds, custom trees, plants, and lati-da on top without struggle. modeling just comes naturally to me. but its looking like that will lower fps. -_- i hate not using 3ds max. so........

....I have decided just to use easygen, but suck at it from the start. I was told there was a link here to an "UBER AWESOME" tutorial on using easygen. can i have that link?


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Old 07-18-2004, 10:02 PM   #10
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http://map-review.com/index.php?page...ial_view&id=12


I have a few quick questions on vertex lighting...

What is it? how does it work? Does it ignor all of the shadows in my map and ignor all of my ent lights?

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Old 07-19-2004, 05:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lil Killa
http://map-review.com/index.php?page...ial_view&id=12


I have a few quick questions on vertex lighting...

What is it? how does it work? Does it ignor all of the shadows in my map and ignor all of my ent lights?

Fist of all you don’t need to use vertex lit (...lighted) terrain as long as you have to. There’s a problem with the fog on lightmapped terrain with more that two layers and the vertex lighted terrain is the solution. That’s why rgoer has chosen it for his example.

In lightmap you have a map of light assigned to every surface. It’s like an additional bitmap data (imagine it as an additional tga changel/or another shader stage) but in lower resolution. The resolution is controlable by _lighmapscale key. If you have let’s say a bitMAP in size of 512x512 you will have a lightMAP in size 16x16 with shadows and light stretched to the size of your bitMAP. This is the lightmap. Am I right?
The vertex light is based on object tessellation structure (triangles) and strictly depends on it. If you create a very dense object like a grid (surface) you can achieve the same effect like using the lightmap by the cost of higher number of surfaces (triangles). See the example:

Normal brush surface, only two triangles can be shadowed / illuminated
http://www.mslaf.com/tutorials/tessgrid1.jpeg

More dense grid, and more detailed shadows / lights
http://www.mslaf.com/tutorials/tessgrid2.jpeg

Very dense grid, and very detailed shadows / light
http://www.mslaf.com/tutorials/tessgrid3.jpeg

And a sample how the “X” shadow will be created (hand painted sorry)
http://www.mslaf.com/tutorials/tessgridshadow.jpeg

VL it’s faster for the renderer, because there’s less light/shadow data to process but offers lower quality and is sometimes very difficult to control. You don’t know how the brush will be split into triangles by q3map2’s tjunction procedure.

In bright areas you will see no big difference between lightmap and vertex light.

The best way to see what is vertex light in reality without going into technical details is to change the setup option from “lightmap” to “vertex light”. And...you can always try old good Jedi Knight to see it too. The vertex lighted surfaces are illuminated in the same way as anything else so your light entities will work with them.

Try to experiment with them yourself to see the advantages and disadvantages.

Sample vertex shaders are here:
http://www.splashdamage.org/index.ph...3fd2fecb1eafc1


ms.-

Last edited by mslaf; 07-20-2004 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 07-22-2004, 04:15 PM   #12
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Hmmm.. the modelling software doesnt have all the enitity info that GTK has... so I wouldnt use that.

You could use JK2 Radiant, with some playing around you can have all the JKA enitities in it but it cant load PNG textures, so...

I used it untill they released GTK 1.4.0 (Because 1.3.0 or whatever wouldnt run)

JK2 Radiant is basically the same as GTK though... anyways, do you think they will release a new GTK?

I also hate learning a new program Im so used to the Radaint programs that, well.. even gmax doesnt make much sense (i only used it for like 5 mins though.)
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