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Old 09-27-2004, 08:04 AM   #1
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Don't hold your breath for tools

I don't expect LA to make any tools As far as I know to date, none have been made for their other SW titles. I expect if the game actually does sell well, LA will come out with an expansion pack first.

As far as patches to improve the current gameplay, it is also a wait and see. This is a great console game that works well on a PC, but it is a console port none the less. Unless someone has a definative interview where LA or Pandemic mention a continuing support for SWBF, this is it.

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Old 09-27-2004, 08:16 AM   #2
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all lies.

Jedi outcast and academy had tools, just to name those 2. they promised to make it very moddable, even though it aint there now may be later. Jedi Academy's tools were also after release

And for patches, they are working on it


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Old 09-27-2004, 08:49 AM   #3
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Lies. that's a strong statement to make. Get some facts straight and support what you state. I stated. "Unless someone has a definative interview where LA or Pandemic mention a continuing support for SWBF, this is it." Post your link to the interview.

Quake tools are not supplied by Lucas Arts. If you use MAX, Milshape and maybe Radient for level design you can edit Jedi KNight games. Those games use id softwares Quake3 engine and you edit files and models and compile back to the .pk3 file sytem. Battlefront does not use the Quake3 engine.

Pandemic designed SWBF and it is a proprietary engine which means there are currently no tools available. Pandemic would be required to release tools to understand the file structure and modify the assets.


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Last edited by richcz3; 09-27-2004 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:06 AM   #4
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Please let there be modding tools.
I never cared for the Star War games. I come from a Raven Shield BF42. I'm finding SWBF to run really well, (without a patch!) I'm sure I'm starting to leave RvS to play this game. I'm getting my clan to start playingTEXCLAN, but if mod capabilities are not going to be available for SWBF I'd just play it until another good first person multiplayer game comes along.
For what it's worth, I think SWBF will take a lot of the MP market. But when a first person MP game that runs as well as SWBF comes out with modding capabilities, SWBF will just drop off to the normal Star War fans, and the MP gaming community will move on and me with it.
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SEN 5241
Please let there be modding tools...... if mod capabilities are not going to be available for SWBF I'd just play it until another good first person multiplayer game comes along.
Exactly. Well put. I am pretty happy with the curent gameplay. But it's late September and we are headed for the holidays. A bunch of titles have gone gold in the past month. If there are no mod or edit tools released then SWBF will give way to the next best title that supports the players and mod community.

I've already done a search. Unfortunately LA doesn't appear to have a history of providing any tools for their proprietary game engines. SWBF may go the way of BF1942 where the community had to hack the file structure to allow modding.


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Old 09-27-2004, 11:03 AM   #6
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Then the gaming community would need the SDK if no tools are going to be released. Plus I haven't heard of any PunkBuster/ Evenbalance to control MP. My God, one week and this game is in the already in the trash.




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Old 09-27-2004, 12:08 PM   #7
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I am openly optimistic that there will be a patch for the server side issues. Most definately a consideration for the 20 FPS in MP.
If in a month or two the sales for the PC quadruple, I expect LA/Pandemic to issue news regarding an expansion pack.

At some point before then someone may develop tools ala BF1942, so people can make smaller game changes.


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Old 09-27-2004, 12:13 PM   #8
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NOOOOO Not the hacks. That means people can have the same mod but they might not work together or they don't work at all due to bad coding. I've seen it.
And I thought I found a good MP game.

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Old 09-27-2004, 01:17 PM   #9
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Re: Don't hold your breath for tools

Quote:
Originally posted by richcz3
I don't expect LA to make any tools As far as I know to date, none have been made for their other SW titles. I expect if the game actually does sell well, LA will come out with an expansion pack first.

As far as patches to improve the current gameplay, it is also a wait and see. This is a great console game that works well on a PC, but it is a console port none the less. Unless someone has a definative interview where LA or Pandemic mention a continuing support for SWBF, this is it.
i think your final sentence is completely contradictory to the rest of your statement. where is your proof that there will not be modding tools nor patches?

sure jedi outcast and jedi academy are based on the quake 2 engine, but there is a JKRADIANT for people to make maps with, and it's available on raven's website. members of raven software even help jk2/ja modders in that part of the forums from time to time, and are more than willing to provide needed information.

lucasarts probably won't be the ones making/releasing any tools, so that part of your statement is dead-on. odds are, and has been seen in the past, it's the developer (pandemic studios in this case), NOT the publisher who provides follow-up support.

and with the holidays fast approaching, don't you think they would be encouraged to release tools and/or patches, because that can only drum up more interest in the game. more interest means more sales ...


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Old 09-27-2004, 03:29 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Don't hold your breath for tools

Quote:
Originally posted by adillon
i think your final sentence is completely contradictory to the rest of your statement. where is your proof that there will not be modding tools nor patches?

sure jedi outcast and jedi academy are based on the quake 2 engine, but there is a JKRADIANT for people to make maps with, and it's available on raven's website. members of raven software even help jk2/ja modders in that part of the forums from time to time, and are more than willing to provide needed information.

lucasarts probably won't be the ones making/releasing any tools, so that part of your statement is dead-on. odds are, and has been seen in the past, it's the developer (pandemic studios in this case), NOT the publisher who provides follow-up support.

and with the holidays fast approaching, don't you think they would be encouraged to release tools and/or patches, because that can only drum up more interest in the game. more interest means more sales ...
QFE.
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Old 09-27-2004, 04:01 PM   #11
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I see no contradiction.
The first paragraph addresses TOOLS the second paragraph addresses PATCHES. These are two seperate points and for the most part both are wait and see. If I was asked which one I would expect to see first tools or a patch, I would bank on a multiplayer patch.

If anyone or any group decided to start making "unoffcial" tools for SWBF, I would really be interested in LA's response.


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Old 09-27-2004, 05:05 PM   #12
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Didn't someone say that they would be using the battlezone 2 editor for map making? Is this true or false because i heard that there was no map editor.


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Old 09-27-2004, 06:24 PM   #13
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Why is there an edit forum on this site if modding won't be available?

I think I'll just sit back and wait until tools are available.
I'm sure someone will start a thread where the right info will be placed. Otherwise this just seems to be blah blah blah until to tools ARE out.

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Old 09-27-2004, 07:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by TEXVINDICTIVE
Why is there an edit forum on this site if modding won't be available?
I've been wondering that myself. How long has this forum been open? Plans change or they could actually be waiting to see if people dig (hack) into the file structures.

Some developers actualy encourage players trying that. I guess it shows a genuine interest in their game. Look at BF1942 and DICE. Wings of War developers are another. But if LA uses that community model, they may not intend to release any tools.


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Old 09-28-2004, 05:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by richcz3
I see no contradiction.
your contradiction lies in the fact that you predict there will not be a release of editing tools nor a patch, without any proof to back you up. and yet your last sentence explicitly states that you want 'official' proof to the contrary.


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Old 09-28-2004, 06:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
your contradiction lies in the fact that you predict there will not be a release of editing tools nor a patch, without any proof to back you up. and yet your last sentence explicitly states that you want 'official' proof to the contrary.
What?
Are you from Kensington + Allegheny? Oh wait you can read and write.
Are you on crack?

If someone from who ever produced the 3D rending software for the game would just release a statement, then I think we would all know a timetable for working on things.
Until then blah blah blah.

Vinny




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Old 09-28-2004, 06:18 AM   #17
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whoa whoa whoa, don't be bashing K&A ... the crack wh0rez gotta live somewhere.

back on topic ... the game's been out for what, a week? of course there aren't editing tools out yet. a patch is probably a little while off yet as well ... and no, i don't have 'official' proof stating when it would be released. but tell me, how many games have you ever bought/played that didn't have some kind of patch released eventually? i can't think of any, at least none in my collection. now, whether or not i downloaded them is a different story. modding tools can only add to a game's longevity. just look at half-life/counter strike/natural selection/day of defeat ... if it wasn't for community modding efforts this game would've died out years ago. but it's the mods that help breathe new life into a game when it's beginning to lose its luster.

so for richcz3 to be so negative about ongoing support for battlefront in the future is ridiculous. sure this game may have its flaws, which a patch would *hopefully* fix. sure people want editing tools so they can make a WW2 mod for battlefront (please take note of the sarcasm). in order for this game to be successful pandemic would be smart to release a patch and tools for the community's creative use. sure nobody has any definitive proof that they ARE working on such things, but at the same time nobody has any proof that they ARE NOT doing so ... so let's all be optimistic in the matter, shall we?


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Old 09-28-2004, 06:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by adillon
so for richcz3 to be so negative about ongoing support for battlefront in the future is ridiculous. sure this game may have its flaws, which a patch would *hopefully* fix.
Speaking of bashing. Mind yourself, would you.
I'm always searching for information to base my comments on, not blind faith. Now, if you will take time to note, I have posted a quote from one of the developers stating they are working on it. Now can we try an be a little more civil. Or is that asking too much? Now are you going to take another swipe at me?

Read This Thread Here

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Old 09-28-2004, 07:05 AM   #19
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@ richcz3 - check your PMs

i've been nothing BUT civil, nor have i resorted to immature tactics to turn this into a flame war.

you want a patch? HERE YOU GO!


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Old 09-28-2004, 08:53 AM   #20
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I think it was me and the 'on crack' remark. But that's cool. Just a yo yo to my Philly bro.

Yes patch 1.00a is out. Are some of you happy now?

Now back to the modding.
Why is this 'Edit Forum' here?

Vinny




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Old 09-28-2004, 08:56 AM   #21
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Don't care for flame wars myself.
My comments are based on LA's support history.

See my link in the previous post about work Pandemic is doing on an upcoming patch. Of course Tools are another story altogether and the emphasis of this thread. To date, in my searches there are no interviews or sites that mention support for engine, terrain, or asset modability. But I am still searching.


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Old 10-01-2004, 07:16 AM   #22
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Just a quick comment on LEC's history of releaseing SDKs. They actually DID get together with Raven and release the SDK for JO (and I think JA as well). Maybe it signifies a new direction for them.
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:02 AM   #23
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That's good to know if LA was actually involved in the process.

My current resevations are the fact that this game is a mult port product. 2 consoles and the PC. Somebody made a point to note that the PC users are weighing heavy on the technical support forums. Read that as more technical bugs for the PC.

In the interviews Pandemic has been asked about tools and always say they will wait to see how things go. I think the number 1 priority for Pandemic is the Server side functions. These need to be squared away before any modding tools. Spytle from Pandemic has said they are working on it so we'll just have to wait it out a bit.

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Old 10-01-2004, 10:20 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by richcz3
That's good to know if LA was actually involved in the process.

My current resevations are the fact that this game is a mult port product. 2 consoles and the PC. Somebody made a point to note that the PC users are weighing heavy on the technical support forums. Read that as more technical bugs for the PC.

In the interviews Pandemic has been asked about tools and always say they will wait to see how things go. I think the number 1 priority for Pandemic is the Server side functions. These need to be squared away before any modding tools. Spytle from Pandemic has said they are working on it so we'll just have to wait it out a bit.

richcz3
Are you saying that they may not rlease the SDK because it is a multi port product?


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Old 10-01-2004, 11:06 AM   #25
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In the interviews it was asked if there would be the possibility to mod SWBF with supplied tools. In each interview I've read they have answered with a wait and see.

Now there are TOOLS and there's an SDK. I would expect some exraction/compile and map tools to help with mods but not an SDK. If they released an SDK I would be blown away. Note that SDKs are almost always released for Quake engined games. This engine is proprietary.

As for my concern with the Console/PC connection is that the support team is spread accross three seperate platforms. It may take allot longer than normal to get all the issues sorted out for the PC. And the PC version takes the cake with support issues/problems.


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Old 10-01-2004, 11:43 AM   #26
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Yeah i wouldn't expect LA or Pandemic to release any kind of SDK. They would totally lose money, especially if they were looking to put out some kind of expansion or sequel, which wouldn't be too bad in my opinion. In any case i would be happy with tools to edit and make maps, and high res models, vehicles, etc. to take the game a lot farther than it is right now. It doesn't seem to me that a game like this would be too complex to map and structure. The hard part is knowing where to put certain structures and control points to have a balanced, strategic game. Also terrain plays a big role. I don't think we had any maps with really high elevation control points or hills like they have in 1942 and vietnam. That is something i really want to emphasize in some of the maps i have in mind.
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Old 10-01-2004, 02:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gsccc
Are you saying that they may not rlease the SDK because it is a multi port product?
Jedi Academy and Jedii Outcast are multi-port too. So this can't be the case.
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:04 PM   #28
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Couple of things... JA & JK2 used the Quake3 engine, not Quake2.

Also, the reason this forum was open is because we all HOPED That Editing would be allowed and possible.

Remember that when Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine came out, we had Editing forums and even a Multiplayer section on our site. Needless to say those dreams were shattered when the game actually came out and we read the fine print. LA refused to include either of those features (whether they said they would be included before or not).

So until the heads at LA decide to let Pandemic go ahead, it's all up in the air. I do hope they allow them to though. Pandemic seems interested in doing it, but they're under LA's control with regards to the Star Wars liscense, so LA could tell them no and that would be it.


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