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Old 11-07-2004, 01:52 AM   #1
marisgal
 
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Star Wars and Half Life 2

Hello and congratulations for that fantastic mod you're making.

I know what are you gonna say but, what about making a Dark Forces or a Star Wars mod with Half Life 2 engine? It would be great and I think it would be easier with Valve tools. What do you think?

Thank you very much

"Maris"
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Old 11-07-2004, 02:07 AM   #2
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Well, the SOURCE engine is a totally unproven engine and the SDK isn't even out yet.


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Old 11-07-2004, 09:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
Well, the SOURCE engine is a totally unproven engine and the SDK isn't even out yet.
The entire SDK isn't out yet, but if you have bought Half-Life 2 over Steam, then you can download the partial SDK right now, which includes Hammer, Model Viewer, and some examples and documents.


Okay, for brevity's sake:

Personal Computers > Consoles.
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Old 11-07-2004, 12:28 PM   #4
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Anyway this would bring heavy license problems.
Modding a SW game with another SW game is tolerated or just ignored.
Since we mod JA, we can use its resources and must not recreate everything.


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Old 11-07-2004, 01:15 PM   #5
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Exactly, starting from scratch is much harder than jumping off a starting point.


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Old 11-07-2004, 01:36 PM   #6
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Well, itīs true that modding a SW game with a non SW game would bring license problems, though there is a Dark Forces mod being done for Doom III and thatīs the reason why I said that of making a DF mod for HL2.

But it would be great to use SOURCE engine to recreate the SW universe even in a non DF mod. I suppose it would be possible to make a "normal" mod (not DF one) with a different story.

Of course I like vey much the JA mod that is being made (It is the greatest mod I have ever played), I was only imagining SW with SOURCE after watching a HL2 video...

"MARIS"
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Old 11-07-2004, 03:32 PM   #7
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I like the idea. Perhaps a star wars hybrid type of mod. It's not star wars but reminds you of star wars(like all parodies of starwars). <Larrel Latern in Duke Sources> It can be pulled off as legal. The source engine has already proven for me(over 200+ mods already planned).
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Old 11-07-2004, 10:44 PM   #8
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Yeah, mods that are planned. Talk is cheap, especially when it comes to modding.


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Old 11-08-2004, 05:27 AM   #9
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Correction Ace, talk is not cheap, it's free . That's why so many ppl talk so largely about making mods, lol. Anyway, I saw you on the team's forums, didn't know you joined or something, is good to have you near dude.



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Old 11-08-2004, 10:14 AM   #10
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Constantly hopping from an older engine to the possibly next best engine is not very productice...
... the mod would never be finished.
Yesterday Far Cry, now Doom3 and tomorrow HL2, and next year Q4?
Who knows how complete the SDKs are?

Let us finish DF on JA, thats good enough compared to original DF graphics.
And then we might help the JK team


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Old 11-08-2004, 12:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fracman
Constantly hopping from an older engine to the possibly next best engine is not very productice...
... the mod would never be finished.
Yesterday Far Cry, now Doom3 and tomorrow HL2, and next year Q4?
That's why Duke Nukem Forever has not been released. They keep getting sidetracked by the 'next best thing' and trying to make their game more current, IMHO.

Anyway, I agree with Fracman. Best to keep on track with what you have and actually release something.

As for using other engines for particular game mods - it's an extremely bad idea, and many mod teams have been burned for trying to 'remake' old games in new (unrelated) game engines. I noticed one of the Ultima projects that was in the works just got axed - and I suspect the rest will be axed soon.

As for a 'parody' of SW - it wouldn't be the same. People would know you were trying to emulate it, and wonder why it wasn't the 'real deal'.

The only SW mod I know that had permission to go ahead on another engine was the Troopers mod for UT2K3 - and that team specifically asked permission from Lucasarts, which they apparently received. That's by no means setting a precedent for other mod teams to do as they please - they would still need to ask for permission from Lucasarts. The other reason why that mod team received permission may be the fact that Lucasarts is licensing the Unreal engine to produce Republic Commando.

The Dark Forces Mod for JA is different because basically people have to buy a licensed SW game in order to play it - so Lucasarts aren't losing out on game sales (and are potentially selling a few more units to fanatics who want to play particular mods ).
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Old 11-09-2004, 01:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
The only SW mod I know that had permission to go ahead on another engine was the Troopers mod for UT2K3 - and that team specifically asked permission from Lucasarts, which they apparently received.
There's also the Galactic Conquest mod for Battlefield 1942, who also asked LucasArts for permission.


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Old 11-09-2004, 03:04 PM   #13
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aahhh another mod in the works is Doom3 - jedi, which i believe is going to be very much like JK multiplayer, i dunno if they asked Lucasarts for permission or not, but if they didnt im sure that lucaarts will close thier project down.
Much like the star wars total conversion for the role play game "Neverwinter nights". due to the fact that it isnt pay to play and people can host thier own huge persistent worlds, meant that the "freebie community made RPG mod" could have overshadowed thier own mamoth retail p2p solution to SW rpg's... "SW: GALAXIES", and to be honest the fans could have made a better RPG, 'cause from what ive heard it fails to deliver.

i would love to see a Starwars game on the HL2 engine though, for those who have doubts i have had plenty of time playing with the engine and the editor (illegally the shame...dont worry i get to pay the debt i owe to valve when hl2 is released :P), the physics engine is so precise, it makes the game more of a reality simulator than a FPS engine. it is so versitile it could be used for anything from RPG's, racing games, RTS (yes and there is one in production :P), to a football game (soccer :P). it really does have the potential for anything
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Old 11-09-2004, 03:06 PM   #14
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Behold, my newly created thread!

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...hreadid=139906


Okay, for brevity's sake:

Personal Computers > Consoles.
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:33 PM   #15
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Of course you can make a mod for a game based on a 5-year old engine. By the time the mod is finished, everybody would have moved on to the next Star Wars FPS.

A couple of Star Wars Mods for Half-Life 2.
Star Wars: Empire

Star Wars: Jedi vs. Sith

You should try to reconsider.
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:55 PM   #16
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I don't know Monkey, I think that legal issues aside, it would take a whole lot longer to start anew on a completely different engine (albeit a much better one) than to finish what has already been started on an older engine. Although just imagine what a Dark Trooper in HL2 could look like! ::drools::


Okay, for brevity's sake:

Personal Computers > Consoles.
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:57 PM   #17
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I don't think you understand the point. There's always a new engine just around the corner. There's always going to be people moving on to the next big ____ game.

Plus, while the basis for the Q3 engine was developed 5 years ago, it's been updated regularly since then by Raven for their games.


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Old 11-10-2004, 10:58 AM   #18
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There are always new engines and stuff right around the corner quite correct, there are ones which state they are the best thing since sliced bread, but they never really make an impact and are usually insignificant, and more of the same. And then there are the HL2's!

The engine is way different from anything ive ever seen, its the next step in the FPS genre (in any genre even), its more than pretty graphics and a cute physics engine, its no gimmick. Its not like a conventional shooter, the game worlds feel like they are living and breathing, anything can be recreated as if it was real with extreme precision, the actual physics engine supposedly holds the answer to the "grand unified" theory within it, an equation einstein spent his entire life trying to solve. Everything has mass, weight, and substance. If say an architect built a scale model of a bridge or a cathedral for instance from brushes in the engine setting the actual mass of each building block, they could probably simulate if it was structurally stable, or if it would just fall over.

Im no fan boy either, the idea of half life 2 up untill i got hold of the beta excited me about as much a Visual Basic progammers Seminar. I had the original and i thought it was a mediocre shooter even though when it was out it was a huge success story, i only really bought it for counter-strike. LOL i can imagine how much fun it would be to use the force to hurl objects and debris strewn on the ground at your enemies, or lifting huge boulders (yoda style :P), and bowling over a group of storm troops like bowling-pins, finally crushing them by dropping it on them
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Old 11-10-2004, 01:34 PM   #19
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Up until Jedi Academy was released, the Quake 3 engine is finally showing age and all the enhancements didn't help. The Half-Life 2 engine supports my equation: believabilty+physics+the Force=Fun. I agree with darthangel, there will always be new engines, but one will shine above the rest. Half Life 2 is one of them. People are still modding for the first game and it is 6-years old, and that's a lot of time to develop a mod.

So finish the mod on the current engine, and be happy with it. People will enjoy it a lot like I will.
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:27 PM   #20
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We can go on and on all day about how cool Star Wars would be in the Source engine. Unfortunately, it's not worth taking the legal risk making a mod for it - and I have a sneaky suspicion that the next JK game will be for either the Source engine or Doom 3 engine. In which case, any mod for either of those two games would be axed well in advance...



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Old 11-10-2004, 03:17 PM   #21
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Here are some specs of the Half-Life 2 engine that contribute to realism:

Advanced Characters

- Detailed and believable characters
- Realistic eyes
. Focus on player/object, not simply parallel views
. Proper eye “bulge” for realistic eye reflections
- Simulated musculature provides emotions, speech and body language
- Language independent speech, characters can naturally speak in many languages
- Skeletal/bone system for animation
- Layered animation system can synthesize complex animations out of several pieces

Physics

- More responsive world with realistic interactions
- Sounds & graphics follow from physics
- AI characters can interact with physically simulated objects
- Ropes/cables, machines, constraint systems, ragdoll physics
- Can be controlled by level design
- Kinematic animated bone followers
- Custom procedural physics controllers
- Vehicles
. Wheels slip and skid
. Realistic suspensions with springs on each wheel
. Realistic leaning during acceleration/deceleration and turning
. Individually tunable parameters such as horsepower, gearing, max speed,
shift speed, tire material, tire friction, spring tension/dampening etc.
. Multiple players in a vehicle in multiplayer
. Hovercraft support for cheaper simulation

Advanced AI

- I/O system allowing level designers to control AI
- Sophisticated navigation: characters that run, fly, jump, crouch, climb stairs and ladders, and burrow underground
- AI senses things using sight, sound, smell
- AI relationships determine friend/foe status of other entities
- Battle AI allows squads of AI characters to operate together, know when to advance, retreat, lay cover fire, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------

Now think of that in a Star Wars game. It would be amazing. I hope Lucasarts uses this engine for Jedi Knight 4.
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Old 11-10-2004, 04:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Its not like a conventional shooter, the game worlds feel like they are living and breathing, anything can be recreated as if it was real with extreme precision, the actual physics engine supposedly holds the answer to the "grand unified" theory within it, an equation einstein spent his entire life trying to solve
Quote:
Im no fan boy either
Yeah, you can just tell yourself that. Next week, you'll be thinking that HL2 use cures cancer.


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Old 11-11-2004, 01:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace Yeah, you can just tell yourself that. Next week, you'll be thinking that HL2 use cures cancer.
Statements like this don't help much here, razorace

Quote:
darthangel
Its not like a conventional shooter, the game worlds feel like they are living and breathing, anything can be recreated as if it was real with extreme precision, the actual physics engine supposedly holds the answer to the "grand unified" theory within it, an equation einstein spent his entire life trying to solve
Yeah. But there are already complaints that our mod doesn't run smoothely enough.
It runs fine on my actual machine, but D3 demo was stuttering already at 800x600.
I'll try HL2 demo as soon as it appears, but i fear it won't run much differently

Although i have the money for a new machine, i won't spend it for just another silly game with ugly alienoids
i'll go out and buy TrackMania SunRise next year, thats much more real fun
(except the one thing that Corto knows )

Today the developpers start first with buying the latest hardware with state of the art gfx and sfx.
But they forget that the mass of the users don't have high end systems.
They don't really optimize... since there is plenty of CPU and GPU power available... but neither they can optimize much anymore, its too complex and they have no time before the next better stuff appears...

It is much more challenging to use an already known but modified engine to try to do the best with it.


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Old 11-11-2004, 01:40 PM   #24
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It runs fine on my system. At least when I'm running it outside of debugger mode. (Debugger mode slows the game down and it can get bad in DF's maps).

Anyway, if people are complianing, we could set up the maps like the JKA maps where the NPCs only spawn when the player gets close to that area of the map.


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Old 11-11-2004, 05:34 PM   #25
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this thread is now closed since it was turning into fact posting and bickering.

thanks for the continued interest!


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