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Old 01-18-2005, 12:59 PM   #1
Lettuce
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I'm new and confused

Hello everyone I'm new here and I got a few questions. First off let me start by saying that I am newcomer to the star wars universe. I only just saw the first three movies recently and by recently I mean yesterday.I did see " The Phantom Menace" "Attack of the clones" movies when they first came but I didnt really find them all that intresting. I actually didnt become intreseted in the Star Wars universe untill I started playing Kinghts of The Old Republic last week and watching the original trilogy only increased it.Anyway back to the reason I'm here the questions that have more then alittle confused.

1.I read a few posts about the SW universe in this forum that actually mention characters from KOTOR. I always thought the game was just based on the SW universe but it used made up characters for its stories. So I was just wondering if the KOTOR games as well as other SW games are stories taken directly from the history of the SW universe.?

2.What is it exactly the turns a jedi to the dark side? I am really confused about this because it seems to me that just thinking about doing something bad leads you down the path to the darkside. It also seems to me that the jedi are supposed to be devoid of emotion and that loosing that control even if it is only for a short while could lead you to embrace the dark side.

edit:I put the clone wars which was a cartoon instead of Attack of The clones which was the movie.


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Last edited by Lettuce; 01-18-2005 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:40 PM   #2
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Re: I'm new and confused

Quote:
Originally posted by Lettuce
Hello everyone I'm new here and I got a few questions. First off let me start by saying that I am newcomer to the star wars universe. I only just saw the first three movies recently and by recently I mean yesterday.I did see " The Phantom Menace" "Attack of the clones" movies when they first came but I didnt really find them all that intresting. I actually didnt become intreseted in the Star Wars universe untill I started playing Kinghts of The Old Republic last week and watching the original trilogy only increased it.Anyway back to the reason I'm here the questions that have more then alittle confused.
Hello and welcome to Lucasforums and Star Wars fandom in general.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lettuce
1.I read a few posts about the SW universe in this forum that actually mention characters from KOTOR. I always thought the game was just based on the SW universe but it used made up characters for its stories. So I was just wondering if the KOTOR games as well as other SW games are stories taken directly from the history of the SW universe.?
The overall Star Wars universe more or less consists of two parts: the movies, and everything else.

The Movies
George Lucas writes and otherwise completely controls every aspect of the movies. The stories thereof are more or less entirely his. The movies are at the top of the hierarchy and everything is based on them. He has little regard for other Star Wars sources like books, games, and anything else that isn't the movies. His view is that everything that isn't in the movies are part of a parallel universe that doesn't interfere with his stories. As a result you will find some inconsistencies with older Star Wars non-movie stories. It's not that he doesn't like the EU, he just wants to be able to tell his own story.

Expanded Universe
The "everything else" falls into the realm of the Expanded Universe (EU). The EU are all the officially sanctioned and licensed stories from all the non-movie sources. While Lucas himself does not particularly care about the EU (in the story sense), there are many guidelines that potential EU stories must follow. These rules are enforced by Lucas Licensing. All the stories, from games, books, and so on, are more or less part of the overall story arch and tie together pretty well, and with the movies for that matter. The EU attempts to tie into and not conflict with the films (many debates are around how well this has turned out). In the end, the Expanded Universe does exactly that, it expands on the the universe described in the movies, and can be considered part of the overall Star Wars world.

Now finally to your actual question. Since KOTOR is a game, and is not directly based on the stories of the movies, it is considered part of the Expanded Universe. Again, this means that it ties into the Star Wars world and tells a part of the overall story. In this case, events that occured some 4000 years before the movies. Other games like Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy also tell part of the overall story, and do not conflict with the events described in KOTOR.

Note: The stories from the EU are written by a wide variety of sources and the quality of these stories varies wildly as one might expect. Because of this, SW fans opinions of the stories in the EU vary greatly and often "violently." Hell, the same is true for the films. For example, some people love the New Jedi Order series (NJO). I think the New Jedi Order series is a steaming pile of trash. Partly because I find the concepts and stories don't tie in well with the rest of the Star Wars universe, and partly because I like to tease my friend Astrotoy7. This is why I will now put a token "NJO sucks" picture here...

]


Quote:
Originally posted by Lettuce
2.What is it exactly the turns a jedi to the dark side? I am really confused about this because it seems to me that just thinking about doing something bad leads you down the path to the darkside. It also seems to me that the jedi are supposed to be devoid of emotion and that loosing that control even if it is only for a short while could lead you to embrace the dark side.
According to the films, the Force has two sides, the light and the dark. For those who are sensative to the Force, like the Jedi, emotions such as anger, hatred, and fear are dangerous. They are dangerous because they may lead the Jedi to call upon the dark side of the force to do "bad things." Since the dark side is by its nature seductive and easier to use, it can lead to the Jedi calling upon it more and more often for more and more terrible reasons. In many ways, the dark side is like an drug. Eventaully the Jedi can become addicted to as destroys their mind and perhaps body as well.

However, emotions are not in and of themselves evil or the dark side. There are just some emotions that tend to lead more to corruption by the dark side. The Jedi are not trying to become devoid of emotion (like those silly Vulcans), but seek to control them so that they do not start sliding down the slippery slope to the dark side.

That is why we see the Jedi having rules to prevent themselves from getting into situations where they would potentially have emotions that might lead them to the dark side. That is why marriage and the like is forbidden. When you love someone, you are much more likely to act irrationally in certain situations involving them, which could lead to emotions that might lead to the dark side. This is basically what happens to Anakin. Jedi still do feel emotions in the very same way as everyone else does. They have just learned to control them and not act upon them. However, by the time the events of the prequel movies occur, it could be argued that the Jedi focus to much on the actual rule and not enough on the reason for it. Sort of like how the Portestant Church sees the Catholic Church (everyone get out your ten foot pole).

Well, that's one point of view. I'm sure others will throw their stupid and wrong ideas in, but you will have to make sure to ignore them.

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Old 01-18-2005, 03:46 PM   #3
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Basically what Prime said. He's absolutely right. About everything.




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Old 01-18-2005, 04:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rogue Nine
Basically what Prime said. He's absolutely right. About everything.
Except Mr. Spock. Death to NJO haters!
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Old 01-18-2005, 04:43 PM   #5
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No, Mr. Spock is right. You do not doubt Mr. Spock, for he is the ultimate authority on all things logical.




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Old 01-18-2005, 06:30 PM   #6
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Thanks alot Prime that cleared alot of things up for me.


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Old 01-19-2005, 04:11 AM   #7
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Gday Lettuce. Interesting to come across a very recent SW fan Its been 25 years for me KOTOR is a great way to get into SW...great storyline for a game

What Prime says about the jedi are OK for a layman like himself.... for the *real deal* on jedi and the dark side etc... check out this thread.....

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...hreadid=140906

as for the NJO...ignore our crazy canadian friend Prime.

Prime, enough with the NJO suxxorzz pics, we would like to encourage people to *check it out themselves*... and if like you, after they read a cpl of books become instant experts on the NJO, *then* they can make their own silly pics

but Prime, this was made for another, but I now award this card to j00 !


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Old 01-19-2005, 07:43 AM   #8
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You can shove your spock ears up your [explicit deleted].

Everyone else is right, except the stuff about the NJO. Ignore everyone else on that subject and don't judge it til you read it.

Also, if you really liked the KOTOR games, I suggets picking up the Tales of the Jedi comics. They're really close to the KOTOR time period.
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Old 01-19-2005, 07:52 AM   #9
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I really really really liked the NJO....star by star is perhaps one of my favorite star wars books.


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Old 01-19-2005, 10:11 AM   #10
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Re: I'm new and confused

Quote:
Originally posted by Lettuce
1....
So I was just wondering if the KOTOR games as well as other SW games are stories taken directly from the history of the SW universe.?
All the stories not created by George Lucas himself are considered "C-Level" canon. Lucas's own stories (the movies, for example) are G-Level and the highest canon. If something in C-Level contradicts G-Level, you go with G-Level as the "real story." This is outlined on Leland "Tasty Tastee" (sp?) Chee's Holocron, and it's the "new" official canon policy.

So the KOTOR game(s) would be C-Level.

Quote:
2.What is it exactly the turns a jedi to the dark side? I am really confused about this because it seems to me that just thinking about doing something bad leads you down the path to the darkside. It also seems to me that the jedi are supposed to be devoid of emotion and that loosing that control even if it is only for a short while could lead you to embrace the dark side.
It's complex set of factors and/or conditions that puts a character on the Dark Side of the Force. It's not a simple "well if you do X you have to become Dark." Some characters may fall easier than others, some quickly, some more slowly, and some can even "come back." Generally the Jedi try to avoid attachments and negative emotions (they include anger, fear, aggression to be some of those) but those are general guidelines and of course a character may not follow those teachings well (see Anakin).

The whole "could lead to" is the key here. There's a big difference between "could" and "will." What do they do, execute you if you have one "bad" thought? No, like life, the Jedi career would be something they would have to work at their entire lives. It's not so simple as one thought and you're dark with no turning back.

Quote:
edit:I put the clone wars which was a cartoon instead of Attack of The clones which was the movie.
Clone Wars is C-Level Canon. AOTC is G-Level. ; )

Hope that helps, and I apologize if I misspelled the guy's name!


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Old 01-19-2005, 10:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Gday Lettuce. Interesting to come across a very recent SW fan Its been 25 years for me KOTOR is a great way to get into SW...great storyline for a game
I was surprised too. Brand new fans are pretty rare.

Quote:
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
What Prime says about the jedi are OK for a layman like himself....
Layman? Thems fightin' words!

But yes, it is a pretty simplified view, and it is a topic that can go on for days. What I wrote would just be a starting point.

Quote:
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Prime, enough with the NJO suxxorzz pics, we would like to encourage people to *check it out themselves*... and if like you, after they read a cpl of books become instant experts on the NJO, *then* they can make their own silly pics
Cool. Most definitely people should check them out and decide for themselves. My intent was only to tease. Although I don't like the NJO myself, I have no problem with others who do like it. I recognize that it is a personal preference. I don't think there is anything in herently bad with the NJO stories, they just aren't what I look for in a Star Wars story.

But I will lay off the NJO sucks stuff...

Quote:
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
Also, if you really liked the KOTOR games, I suggets picking up the Tales of the Jedi comics. They're really close to the KOTOR time period.
Athough the art in those books is a little dated now, the storys are overall quite interesting. I hope Lucasarts does more stories in that era. It is pretty wide open in what they can do, and it won't confict too much with canon. I'd sort of like to see the NJO as the end of the post-ROTJ era.

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Old 01-21-2005, 07:39 AM   #12
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Re: Re: I'm new and confused

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
All the stories not created by George Lucas himself are considered "C-Level" canon. Lucas's own stories (the movies, for example) are G-Level and the highest canon. If something in C-Level contradicts G-Level, you go with G-Level as the "real story." This is outlined on Leland "Tasty Tastee" (sp?) Chee's Holocron, and it's the "new" official canon policy.

So the KOTOR game(s) would be C-Level.

PRIME...see, he's done it *again*

LETTUCE - I sincerely hope that has cleared things up for you

Kurgan, great post But you gotta admit, you got more cannon(sp) than a bada$$ pirate ship

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Old 01-21-2005, 12:10 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Re: I'm new and confused

Quote:
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
PRIME...see, he's done it *again*

LETTUCE - I sincerely hope that has cleared things up for you

Kurgan, great post But you gotta admit, you got more cannon(sp) than a bada$$ pirate ship

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Old 01-23-2005, 05:16 AM   #14
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Are new star wars fans really that rare? I would have thought that Episodes 1&2 would have made some new fans of series. I know some people that really liked those movies that werent star wars fans to begin with, But then again I think some people are just afraid to admit they are fans. It seems all star wars fan are seen as obessed people who dress up like darth vader and camp out at movies theaters for 6 weeks before the Star wars movie come out.

I'll be sure to check out NJO(New Jedi Order?). How many books are there in the series? I assuming that it takes place after ROTJ.


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Old 01-23-2005, 05:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lettuce
...I'll be sure to check out NJO(New Jedi Order?). How many books are there in the series? I assuming that it takes place after ROTJ.
yes, i encourage you to read it and make up your own mind. It is a great series, but please at least read the first few, as these are the introductory novels, and quite different to teh rest in many ways which are full of great characterisations and great, epic battles


the NJO takes place 25 years after ANH, it consists of 19 books and 2 e-books....

there is a NJO specific thread I have created, feel free to ask any NJO questions you like
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...hreadid=141810


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