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Old 10-18-2005, 06:28 PM   #1
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quake 3 source

With the release of the quake 3 source a couple weeks ago, will this allow us to do anything with ja or is even ja source completely different?


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Old 10-19-2005, 12:59 AM   #2
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it's alot differnet, i doubt you can get much out of it cept some function prototypes


adding a pk3 to the file system without reloaded the engine would be a good one
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Old 10-19-2005, 05:26 AM   #3
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Yeah, the Ghoul2 system is entirely Raven's code.


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Old 10-19-2005, 07:08 AM   #4
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i created a dedicated server for JKA based on the quake3 source in order to fix the UDP large request crash exploit....

it seems to work execpt for the ghoul2 system source that i don't have....
I know Wudan succeed to interprete and create GLM and GLA in this dragon tool....;

So perhaps we could create our own dedicated server?

at the moment mine seems to succeed to start the maps of JKA
this is just the GLM which is not loaded

so we would have to create the GLM management into the source and also GLA mangement and also the Trace code for those models


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Old 10-19-2005, 09:34 AM   #5
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the render engine has also been modified heavily and your playerState_t and entityState_t functions have a **** load more stuff for jka.

also you guys are forgetting that we dont have ICARUS either.

i think its safe to say we cant really fix up jka without having the jka engine :/


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Old 10-19-2005, 09:45 AM   #6
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lets try and do somethin cool though


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Old 10-19-2005, 09:55 AM   #7
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playerState_t and entityState_t is probably not the most difficult part...

But icarus...... heu lol WHAT'S THAT BAD WORD lol !!!
it will be hard...
i think OJP had some code from raven for that?


but is it really needed to run a dedicated server?
i don't really know a lot about icarus...
I thought in was only for SP but not MP


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Old 10-19-2005, 12:50 PM   #8
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Hmm, is there a way to get it to compile a new network code? Do you think they would have reworked the network code all that much?


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Old 10-19-2005, 01:02 PM   #9
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msg.c for sure yes, because they needed to support the new fd structs and all the new stuff for jedi games.


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Old 10-19-2005, 01:10 PM   #10
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icarus is used for simple stuff in siege mode, but the game will work fine without it.
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Old 10-19-2005, 02:07 PM   #11
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it is used for simple stuff, but you can do alot more with scripting than what comes with the game. Many of the more advanced and good maps out there have scripts in them, and a few of my maps have some basic scripts in them. It is mostly for mappers to make the maps more interactive, but I dont think they are NEEDED to run a server with. You probably just couldnt play any of the maps that use scripts if you dont have icarus.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:01 PM   #12
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the frist step would be to include ghoul2 C code from Wudan (if he accepts) and recode all the trap syscall function that the game dll is using in order to know were are each bones based on the animations...

it could be nice to have our own compatible dedicated server for ja based on quake3...

we could then code encryption for rcon password and and encryption in data transmission to avoid snifer on LAN network to know the rconpasswords....
I will be able to port my fix to correct the large udp request exploit that crash servers

and we be able to have many others things
like microphone support like for CS source

....Etc;;;;


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Old 10-19-2005, 03:39 PM   #13
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I don't want to sound negative here, but the Ghoul2 system is probably too complicated to replicate blindly. Besides, we really don't need access to the core engine code except in the case of minor security updates and such.

As for SP code stuff, I do have the SP NPC AI code (all of it except the supporting templete files), most of the .dll side of ICARUS, and misc files from the rest of the dll code. I've been told to keep it low profile because many people take the mentioning of SP code the wrong way.

I'm currently porting the core NPC AI navigation code and have already ported several NPC classes into MP. This code is C++ based and uses a lot of hot, hot templete action so it's taking a while to fill in the missing classes.


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Old 10-19-2005, 03:55 PM   #14
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hot.


yea, i thought about voice chat stuff.. seems you could do it with external librarys as-is
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Old 10-19-2005, 05:44 PM   #15
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Assuming you could integrate reasonably and get it running. Now would you be able to code geo modding like in red faction?


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Old 10-19-2005, 05:50 PM   #16
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what is geo modding?

PS: also perhaps WUdan could release a library for ghoul2 that we could link statically in your own dedicated server for JA


like that wudan does not have to give his whole source code.


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Last edited by Slider744; 10-19-2005 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 10-19-2005, 06:07 PM   #17
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As far as I know, Wudan's only working on the animation/modelling portion of the Ghoul2 system. For it to be functional for JKA, you'd at least have to replicate the hit detection system.


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Old 10-19-2005, 07:47 PM   #18
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if we have all that, theres no reason to not make an open code jka client


razorace: the ghoul2 hit detection sucks anyway... didn't xmod improve that?
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Old 10-19-2005, 09:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider744
what is geo modding?
Hey Slider, geo modding was first featured in a game called Red Faction. The engine allowed for the dynamic destruction of the environment so say I had a rocket launcher, I could make a cave in a cliff wall. Or if i had several grenades and a bunker, I could make a tunnel with my explosives. This was done without scripting like func_breakable in the q3 based games. Plus red faction was able to do it without having the game have choppy frame rates (this is an old game btw and runs fine on old computers).


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Old 10-19-2005, 11:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubert
razorace: the ghoul2 hit detection sucks anyway... didn't xmod improve that?
Ghoul2 isn't bad at all. It's just operating in a laggy env, with a single model used for all playermodels, and with saber hit detection code that wasn't designed to be laser point accurate.

I don't know about xmod but I personally rewrote a large amount of the saber hit detection to make it work better. It's still not perfect, but you can't expect 100% accuracy in a 20 fps server setup with using the Kyle model for all the hit detection.


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Old 10-20-2005, 05:57 AM   #21
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yeah geo modding would be awesome
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:06 AM   #22
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in order to create a dedicated server based on quake3 source, we don't need tp remake hit detection.
this part of the code is located in the game dll and not the server dedicated needed code...

at the moment, what prevent me from connect my own dedicated server based on quake3 source is just the ghoul2 mangement that is lacking...

the hit detection in game dll is using trap syscall cmd that we need to recode in the dedicated server... (like update the trap_trace cmd to detect glm models )


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Last edited by Slider744; 10-20-2005 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 10-20-2005, 01:30 PM   #23
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The Ghoul2 hit detection is an inherent part of the engine/gameplay. Without it, none of the hit detection for the lightsabers or weapons will work right.

You could just use the default Q3 traces but that would be very inaccurate.


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Old 10-20-2005, 04:10 PM   #24
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hum i am not sure to understand what you mean with hit detection?
are u speaking about jampgame.dll code or dedicated server code?


i was thinking i only need to add ghoul2 support and gla support and recode all trap syscall that are relative to ghoul2 in order to the jampgame.dll to know where are all bones of a model based on the animations and therefore detect saber moves ...etc

perhaps you are speaking about surface detection in the GLM model? (like tags *back, *l_arm ....etc...)


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Last edited by Slider744; 10-20-2005 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 10-20-2005, 06:14 PM   #25
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I'm referring to all that stuff. It's controlled by a lot of underlying code in the engine. I don't really see us being able to replicate that accurately enough to be able to create a new dedicated server.


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Old 10-21-2005, 12:21 AM   #26
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if we switched it to q3 tracing, the fun factor from quake that isn't in jka would be there i think
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Old 10-21-2005, 04:20 AM   #27
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Razorace, i think i begin to see what you mean...

Razorace, do you think you could have a chance to ask to raven for the dedicated server part code only?

tell them we want to correct the large UDP request crash bug ourself...
PErhaps indicate that we can be satisfied with a .lib or .a for te ghoul2 part that we will link into our dedicated server executable...?
Like that they are not forced to give the code for ghoul2


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Old 10-21-2005, 04:48 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubert
if we switched it to q3 tracing, the fun factor from quake that isn't in jka would be there i think
I'm not sure why you would think that. The saber combat is pretty weird when it just uses the normal traces. Saber attacks cause damage before getting remotely close to players' bodies. You just need that extra accuracy to make the saber system work.

Quote:
Razorace, do you think you could have a chance to ask to raven for the dedicated server part code only?
I don't see it happening. I only got the code that I got because I was constantly asking minor/solveable questions about the AI/scripting system. While getting such code would be great, it's just too much of a legal issue for Raven.


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Old 10-27-2005, 06:34 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider744
hum i am not sure to understand what you mean with hit detection?
are u speaking about jampgame.dll code or dedicated server code?


i was thinking i only need to add ghoul2 support and gla support and recode all trap syscall that are relative to ghoul2 in order to the jampgame.dll to know where are all bones of a model based on the animations and therefore detect saber moves ...etc

perhaps you are speaking about surface detection in the GLM model? (like tags *back, *l_arm ....etc...)
I have been working with the Q3 source and have rendered, animated GLM meshes, using a new system I made up called 'MyGhoul' (as apposed to Ghoul2, which I do not have the source for.) I based my glm/gla support off of the Md4 format, which is in the Q3 source.

Because I do not have access to Raven's source for Ghoul2, it is not identical to how JA handles glm/gla files. Models are registered with RegisterModel, and animation files are also registered with RegisterModel. They render the same, animation is different (of course), each model contains an 'animation state' that holds where each bone is positioned, etc.

Because it was written from scratch, and not with editing in mind, it is superior to the glm/gla implementation in Dragon, which is 'not as good' to say the least.

However, my work schedule just got tons busier, so I have drastically less time to devote to this. I plan on adding PNG support, and someday I'd like to add vehicle support and ODE collision testing (for melee and ragdoll.)


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Old 10-28-2005, 04:45 AM   #30
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woa that is nice!!!
good luck wudan


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