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Old 10-29-2005, 01:57 AM   #1
Tricking
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D20 character planning

My question is purely D20 related. Firstly, here is a screenshot to help me clarify..



What is the purpose of the second row? Let's say I add a +3 will belt to my character. Only the first row will be affected 'directly', the second row will only increase one point in increments of two, subsequently putting the first row on 29 and the second *only* on 9. What is the function of that second row? Is it used in attack rolls too? As far as I can see the first one is the only one that can be influenced 'directly' (opposed to those increments of the second row) with items or force powers. I'm asking this because when I first build my characters at the beginning of the game, I always divide my attribute points evenly to make sure there are no points squandered on 'halfs' in the second row. Is that a good idea or a bad idea?

Also, I've been trying to figure out if gaining 18 points on constitution to get worthwhile implants is just that.. worthwhile. I usually like to focus solely on either willpower or dexterity, so I want to know what is wiser; max out such a skill from the start of the game or get that loss to constitution back through another skill somehow with a proper implant.

My final questions are about a certain item, the 'Physical Boost D-Package'. Among other things it adds three points to constitution. Its requirements are 18 points. I wonder, is it possible to spend a limited number of points on your constitution, say until you've reached 15, then boost your constitution stat to or over 18 with some other items, and THEN equip the D-package implant? If so, will it be and stay equipped if I remove those other items? And in case this is all doable, can this also be done by boosting constitution with finite force powers?

Thank you.
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Old 10-29-2005, 02:31 AM   #2
spinkle
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the column you have highlighted is the bonus/penalty that would affect rolls governed by that stat. for example as they are listed above you would have -1 on your to hit and damage rolls with melee weapons because strength is the applicable attribute. A penalty applies for attributes lower than 10 (-1 at 8 or 9); there is no effect at 10, and a bonus is given for every 2 attribute points over 10. that is, it's +1 at 12, +2 at 14, +3 at 16, etc. additionally some of the modifiers will affect different skills (treat injury and awareness get a bonus/penalty from WIS...repair, security, demolitions and computer use all get a bonus/penalty from INT...stealth from DEX...persuade from CHR)

it's easy to find items that increase STR, WIS, DEX and CHR...but without a high *base* consutition you CANNOT equip high grade implants. For example, you need an 18 base constitution to use the Universal D-Package, which grants a +2 bonus to ALL attributes. Having a 15 base constitution with a +3 constitution increase thanks to an item will NOT allow you to use a D-Package implant. Your base CON *must* be 18 or higher. (though any higher is unnecessary, as there are no implants that require it)

Additionally, your INT bonus (determined by your BASE INT, not your INT modified by items) adds to the amount of skill points that you get to distribute when you level up.

In light of this, I consider INT and CON to be the most important attributes to increase when levelling up...CON to use high end implants, and INT for more skill points.

in general when starting a character i go 14 STR, 10 DEX, 14 CON, 15 INT, 14 WIS, and 10 CHR. I don't get any DEX or CHR bonuses (or penalties), and as soon as i'm given an attribute point I drop it in INT for an extra skill point each level (both as a bonus to the related skills and as another point to throw around). I often push INT to 18 and then start working on CON to get to those great implants.

hope this helps, sorry if it's a jumble, but it's late where i am.

spinkle


<jmac7142> Most relationships exist despite being built on lies though. <El Sitherino>Yeah, and they usually involve freaky weird sex or money.

Last edited by spinkle; 10-29-2005 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 10-29-2005, 03:10 AM   #3
RedHawke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricking
My question is purely D20 related. Firstly, here is a screenshot to help me clarify..


What is the purpose of the second row?
That row is your attribute bonuses/penalties called Ability Modifiers, they are the numbers that affect your bonuses in combat or with skills.

Code:
Table 1-1 Re-Printed from the Star Wars RPG book...

Score          Modifier
1               -5
2-3             -4
4-5             -3
6-7             -2
8-9             -1
10-11          0
12-13          +1
14-15          +2
16-17          +3
18-19          +4
20-21          +5
22-23          +6
24-25          +7
26-27          +8
28-29          +9
30-31          +10
Etc...          Etc...
So these Ability Modifiers affect various things...

Strength that number is added or subtracted from your to hit and melee weapon damage rolls...

Dexterity that number is added or subtracted from your Defense Rating or AC and Reflex Saves, it is also used as the attack bonus or penalty for some weapons pending your gaining the finesse feats.

Constitution that number is added or subtracted from your Vitality Points when you level up *, it also adds or subtracts to all your Fortitude based saving throws.

*Example: you gain 6 VP per level if you have a +2 Ability Modifier for Constitution then you would gain 8 per VP level, if you had a -2 Ability Modifier then you would get only 4...

Intelligence that number is added or subtracted from your skills that are based on Intelligence, it also adds or subtracts from your Willpower saving throws. And also increases or reduces your Skill Points per level.

Wisdom that number is added or subtracted from your skills that are based on Wisdom, it also adds or subtracts from your FP gain per level similar to Constitution does with your VP, it also can effect your Willpower saves.

Charisma that number is added or subtracted from your skills that are based on Charisma, it also adds or subtracts to your Force Powers in either making them easier or harder to resist.

Add this to what sprinkle said above.

I hope this helps!


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 10-29-2005, 03:17 AM   #4
spinkle
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thanks redhawke, i couldn't specifically remember all of the bonus applications (not to mention i was straight up clueless as to how will/fortitude/reflex were determined) so i didn't go into too much [specific] detail, as i didn't want to throw out misinformation while attempting to inform. glad you could fill in the blanks for me...and i got to learn something too =)


<jmac7142> Most relationships exist despite being built on lies though. <El Sitherino>Yeah, and they usually involve freaky weird sex or money.
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Old 10-29-2005, 03:35 AM   #5
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You are welcome!

Though a word of wisdom for playing any Fantasy based RPG system like this D20 system (D&D) is the more balanced character will always be superior to the imbalanced one. That character in the example pic is really imbalanced. While it is indeed a Force Point god, the Powers themselves aren't that strong because of the mere +2 from Charisma, a couple of quick whacks of a saber or shots from a blaster and you would be bye-bye.

Emphasising only a couple of attributes while ignoring the rest is bad.

Just FYI!


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 10-29-2005, 03:27 PM   #6
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Personally I've never needed implants. EVER.

I usually get CON. up to 14 and leave it.

The important attributes depend on class.

For instance, combat class needs high STR, DEX & CON with moderate WIS and CHR. This is because you need high physical attack and defense roles, as well as high hitpoints. As a Guardian Jedi you need some wisdom and charisma so that your Force powers actually do something.

As a Consular WIS & CHR are most important but you also need a high DEX for the defensive roles and atleast 12 CON to negate your low hitpoints.

As stated above, balance it best.


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Old 11-02-2005, 07:00 PM   #7
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Thanks. I never quite got everything about it, and it was unfortunate that especially kotor 1 was built in such a way that it didn't really mattered how you played it.

I found SL to be a little bit tougher, so I decided to plan out my characters a little more carefully.
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:51 PM   #8
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the level cap in kotor 1 was an absolute shock to me, and my character was horribly built due in large part to that. even my first couple runs through TSL were poorly done. it took a while for me to get the hang of it.

when i went back to kotor 1 with a better sense of what i was doing, i had a lot more fun and was a great deal more careful with my build, and i ended up housing Malak instead of getting annihilated in about 45 seconds.


<jmac7142> Most relationships exist despite being built on lies though. <El Sitherino>Yeah, and they usually involve freaky weird sex or money.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinkle
the column you have highlighted is the bonus/penalty that would affect rolls governed by that stat. for example as they are listed above you would have -1 on your to hit and damage rolls with melee weapons because strength is the applicable attribute. A penalty applies for attributes lower than 10 (-1 at 8 or 9); there is no effect at 10, and a bonus is given for every 2 attribute points over 10. that is, it's +1 at 12, +2 at 14, +3 at 16, etc. additionally some of the modifiers will affect different skills (treat injury and awareness get a bonus/penalty from WIS...repair, security, demolitions and computer use all get a bonus/penalty from INT...stealth from DEX...persuade from CHR)

it's easy to find items that increase STR, WIS, DEX and CHR...but without a high *base* consutition you CANNOT equip high grade implants. For example, you need an 18 base constitution to use the Universal D-Package, which grants a +2 bonus to ALL attributes. Having a 15 base constitution with a +3 constitution increase thanks to an item will NOT allow you to use a D-Package implant. Your base CON *must* be 18 or higher. (though any higher is unnecessary, as there are no implants that require it)

Additionally, your INT bonus (determined by your BASE INT, not your INT modified by items) adds to the amount of skill points that you get to distribute when you level up.

In light of this, I consider INT and CON to be the most important attributes to increase when levelling up...CON to use high end implants, and INT for more skill points.

in general when starting a character i go 14 STR, 10 DEX, 14 CON, 15 INT, 14 WIS, and 10 CHR. I don't get any DEX or CHR bonuses (or penalties), and as soon as i'm given an attribute point I drop it in INT for an extra skill point each level (both as a bonus to the related skills and as another point to throw around). I often push INT to 18 and then start working on CON to get to those great implants.

hope this helps, sorry if it's a jumble, but it's late where i am.

spinkle
Nice explanation, however, I'll have to disagree slightly. It IS possible to use the implants that require 18 Constitution with only 15. If you max out lightside and go the way of Jedi Watchman (I went Guardian>Watchman for more skills and the handy special feats) you gain +3 to Constitution which apparently acts as though it was your base. Glitch? I don't know, but it works .


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Old 11-02-2005, 09:36 PM   #10
spinkle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarNProgress
Nice explanation, however, I'll have to disagree slightly. It IS possible to use the implants that require 18 Constitution with only 15. If you max out lightside and go the way of Jedi Watchman (I went Guardian>Watchman for more skills and the handy special feats) you gain +3 to Constitution which apparently acts as though it was your base. Glitch? I don't know, but it works .
I'm going to test that theory, but it definitely didn't work for me the first time i played a watchman. actually i'm building a sentinel right now, so maybe it'll work when i hit light mastery? interested to see, thanks for the info =)


<jmac7142> Most relationships exist despite being built on lies though. <El Sitherino>Yeah, and they usually involve freaky weird sex or money.
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