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Old 11-08-2005, 10:33 PM   #41
Kurgan
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I know I did. I don't see that as a contradiction. It's a different sort of problem.

Were those 20 years building the first Death Star inventing new technologies, collecting materials? What? People above were suggesting that it was due to having to invent from scratch the superlaser. I contended that this technology existed already. They merely had to find a way to scale it up to the enormous size of the Death Star.

The EU is vastly contradicted on this point, because it aogy ts that the Death Star was a leap in technology invented by Qwi Xu and some other "geniuses" at the Maw Installation and built by Bevel Lemisk.

Instead we have the Geonosians design the thing, and Dooku takes the plans. Then it's already partially built 20 years before ANH. The first one is destroyed, and then (according to the official timeline which states that ESB takes place 3 years after ANH, and then ROTJ is one year later) suddenly the Death Star 2 is operational in 1 year. Now if we go by some EU sources like Shadows of the Empire, it's apparently even shorter than 1 year, but I couldn't quote you them since it's been ages since I've gone over that part of it and I have no idea if it's in any way been retconned.

If the technical problems were all hammered out by the time of the first Death Star's construction, and the delays were not due to some contrived excuse like political machinations or sabotage, etc. that is still an incredible leap. The adaptive technologies needed to account for the greater size would be great, but as to how long those would take to develope I have no idea. If the DS2 is only 1.4 times bigger, rather than 6 times bigger, this makes it much easier. But I would cut the design time maybe in half to be generous and that's still 10 years.

So either the DS2 was in development a lot longer than they let on (the opening crawl of ROTJ makes it sound like it hasn't been in development long... perhaps 3 years MAX, if we toss out SOTE, reasonably...) and it's not "complete" in that the shell isn't completely built, but from what we can tell everything else seems to be working. I can't remember... was it mobile? I know in the novel they planned to blow up the Endor moon with it, but they wouldn't have needed to manuver to do that since they were already in orbit..... or else the time it took to create the first Death Star was unrelated to actual build time or technology development, as Lucas's joke implies.

It HAD to be. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense. If the DS2 took ten years to build, that's more believable. But honestly Lucas created this problem himself when he insisted on putting the partially complete DS in ROTS with a "young" Tarkin in the same scene. No explanation is going to work perfectly, but knowing the EU authors, they'll come up with a cheesy explanation and you can take it if you like it. Oh well!


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Old 11-08-2005, 11:13 PM   #42
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PS: This will probably mark me as a huger nerd (than previously imagined), but from the EU we're lead to believe that a single Star Destroyer can render an (unprotected) planet UNINHABITABLE in about a day (or a number of hours, I can't remember if that was the figure for three ISD's or just one). Anyway, this "base delta zero" turns a planet into a mountain of slag, eradicating all life (except in deep planetary shelters).

So anyway, that's what they can already do. Granted, the Death Star makes the planet EXPLODE (planetary shield or not!) violently, which requires a huge amount of power.. especially since it does it all at once!

Yet we're lead to believe that the DS is not a chain reaction weapon. It doesn't use some "exotic trick" to make a planet blow up. Rather, it's just a "really huge" laser beam weapon, like the tiny one we see mounted on a LAAT 23 years prior in AOTC.

Now obviously to scale it up you need the control mechanisms, you need the power generation, and you need the waste heat dissipation and safety systems. The focusing apparatus needs to be larger. Those are the kinds of things you need to deal with in the Death Star. And you need to make it even bigger for the second Death Star. You're thinking it would be easier to make the jump from DS1 to DS2 than from LAAT laser to DS1. I agree. However, there's also suggestions that smaller super lasers were also built (in the EU). The Exclipse Class Star Destroyers supposedly had "mini super lasers" on them. There's also bits about miniature Death Stars ("battle planetoids" and "torpedo spheres") etc. Now granted, none of this is in the movies, and any of it could be retconned at any moment. But if we posit all sorts of transitional technological applications in progress or already complete long before ANH, then it isn't quite so amazing to think that "suddenly" they have the ability to shatter planets in a single shot. After all, the atomic bombs weren't a sudden leap in technology, they were based on all kinds of science that had been previously developed. Many say that building the first nuke was historically inevitable, simply because everything was ready to take the next step. Not an exact analogy, but still.

Anyway, I've rambled enough on this subject. Lucas has his explanation, and the EU is coming up with their's. Let's see if any of it makes any sense... thanks Lucas... for giving us nerds something to argue about once more!


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Old 11-08-2005, 11:16 PM   #43
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There's also the Venator-class Star Destroyers in RotS that had "mini-superlasers" as well. During the opening scene over Coruscant you see one split a Separatist frigate in half with it.
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Old 11-12-2005, 07:58 PM   #44
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I'm deeply confused. At the end of RotS, we see the Death Star about half finished constuction. How then, did it take 20 years to complete?

Sorry if this has been answered already. I didn't see an answer anywhere.
When I first answered your question, I haven't seen the Original Trilogy for a few years. You are right! Sorry man!
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Old 11-13-2005, 09:58 PM   #45
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No problem. I forgive you for your ignorance
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Old 11-14-2005, 09:28 AM   #46
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The technology to make something that big was not advanced enough, the reason why Death Star II was completed so quickly, was probably because of new technology.

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Old 11-14-2005, 11:37 AM   #47
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The Death Star was completed for almost five years I guess. Not because of new thechnology, but because of a lot of workers. After presenting Death Star I to the galaxy Empire had to get more workers. I think they planned to build the Second Death Star a long before Battle on Yavin. That's my opinion.
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:56 PM   #48
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^Why? The Death Star was supposedly invincible. Why waste time, money, and effort building a second one if you already have one?
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Old 11-15-2005, 02:14 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor
^Why? The Death Star was supposedly invincible. Why waste time, money, and effort building a second one if you already have one?
Superweapons are like M&M's you never are satisfied with just having one...


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Old 11-15-2005, 10:40 AM   #50
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Well... it took quite a while to move. Perhaps a few more would make the iron fist ruling a bit easier.


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Old 11-17-2005, 08:15 PM   #51
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Several years ago, there was a story about the Emporer, and how he wanted a network of Death Stars, so he can maintain control. I will have to look up the tittle...
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