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Old 12-11-2005, 06:38 AM   #1
Seriphyn
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How the Clone Wars SHOULD have been done...

OK, I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I'm rather unimpressed with the effort gone into making the models for the Clone Wars era. Examples including how there's only one camoflauged trooper on Kashyyyk, and how the blue 501st are on Utapau etc. This is how I think it should be done.

CIS
Only just universal changes.

Standard Infantry: Replace with normal battle droid with blaster rifle.
Rocket Infantry: Move Super Battle Droid to here. First weapon is blaster (decreased damage and slightly decreased rate of fire to give it a pistol feel) and second weapon is the wrist rocket, with increased damage.
Sniper Infantry: Replace skin with just normal battle droid.
Engineer Infantry: Why is this guy yellow? Yellow is a commander droid! As before, just replace with normal battle droid (same weapons obviously).
Commander Infantry: Get rid of the MagnaGuard completely. Replace with the yellow battle droid commander, but have the same weapons (so the only real difference is the model)
Special Infantry: Fine. Keep the same.
Pilot: Fine as well
Marine: Green? Where did they get green from? This dude should be a red battle droid.

Republic

NOTE: The 'chaingun' would be ditched, in favour of a smaller stormtrooper style rifle. This would be actually the same as chaingun (rapid fire, overheats, unlimited), but the only difference is its look. This weapon, probably called the 'Blaster Carbine', would be used by Commanders.

Space
The Marine would lose all colouring, so they are just plain white. The Pilot is fine.

Mygeeto
Soldier, Heavy, Sharpshooter and Engineer are all Galactic Marines (ie. the model of the original Clone Commander). The replaced Clone Commander would be Commander Bacara (the original skin of the Heavy Trooper, but with a red skirt instead).

Kashyyyk/Yavin 4/Dagobah
Soldier, Heavy and Sharpshooter are the BARC troopers (camoflagued scout troopers) while the Engineer is the AT-RT driver* (see below). The Commander would be Commander Gree, the normal looking clone trooper with camoflagued armour (the one who speaks to Yoda) and his visor would be the same colour as the Jet Trooper's one (shiny green). Green jet trooper (just the markings, not camoflagued).

Geonosis/Kamino
Soldier and Sharpshooter would be the standard EpII clone troopers. Heavy trooper would be the Blue ARC trooper, as normal. Engineer is the same (pilot). Clone Commander would be a Red ARC trooper, instead. Green epII jet trooper here.

Felucia
Soldier, Heavy, Sharpshooter and Engineer would be yellow clone troopers with the light brown skirt and shoulder pads. Clone Commander would be Commander Bly* (see below). Yelllow jet trooper.

Utapau/Mos Eisley/Jabba's Palace
Soldier and Heavy would be just normal clone troopers with orange colouring. Sharpshooters and Engineers would be the 'beehive' style helmet (what you see for the original Sharpshooter) clones but with orange colouring and grey skirts. Commander would be Commander Cody (the one with and U shaped covering around his visor, and the one who orders to shoot Obi-Wan). Orange jet trooper.

Coruscant
Everyone is the blue 501st model. The Jet Trooper would be blue here.

Polis Massa/Death Star/Tantive IV
Everyone here would have the grey Coruscant military base colouring (after the conversation Yoda, Obi-Wan and Windu have on the gunship, before landing on that runway with the loads of spacecruisers). The Commander would be the original engineer skin (for a little variety). Grey jet trooper.

Mustafar/Naboo
Everyone here would be the red shock troopers* (see below). The Commander would be Commander Deviss (exactly like Commander Bly, but has red colouring, and would have the binoculars down covering his eyes). Red jet trooper.

*Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
(From left to right: Shock trooper, Commander Bly, AT-RT driver)

I think that covers all of the maps. I'm sure most of you would agree with my above changes; I made it as canon as possible.
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Old 12-11-2005, 07:02 AM   #2
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It could be good, but I like the normal blue on every map. Because then I know that the republic sendt there best, and lost.....


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Old 12-11-2005, 07:39 AM   #3
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Commander Deviss never went to Mustafar, but Thire did.
That would make more sense.




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Old 12-11-2005, 08:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex533
Commander Deviss never went to Mustafar, but Thire did.
That would make more sense.
Ah yes, I see. But we would need a decent Commander skin, and I believe Thire is exactly the same as everyone else, if you understand. In the game, they wouldn't actually be called 'Commander Deviss' but just Clone Commander.

The reason to put the red shock troopers 'Homeworld Security' onto Naboo, is because that's Palpatine's home planet. Also, I didn't know what group to put on Naboo anyway.
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Old 12-11-2005, 12:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seriphyn
Standard Infantry: Replace with normal battle droid with blaster rifle.
Rocket Infantry: Move Super Battle Droid to here. First weapon is blaster (decreased damage and slightly decreased rate of fire to give it a pistol feel) and second weapon is the wrist rocket, with increased damage.
Sniper Infantry: Replace skin with just normal battle droid.
Engineer Infantry: Why is this guy yellow? Yellow is a commander droid! As before, just replace with normal battle droid (same weapons obviously).
Commander Infantry: Get rid of the MagnaGuard completely. Replace with the yellow battle droid commander, but have the same weapons (so the only real difference is the model)
Special Infantry: Fine. Keep the same.
Pilot: Fine as well
Marine: Green? Where did they get green from? This dude should be a red battle droid.
I say nay to the standard, sniper, and engineer skin change. Why? Because it would get extremely confusing if they all started using their blasters; you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the three. I'd make the engineer green, and the sniper maybe a purplish color. Also, instead of the super battle droid shunned to heavy weapons duty, keep it as it is in BF II, while the standard trooper would vary on the map between the normal and super battle droid.
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Old 12-11-2005, 01:55 PM   #6
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Well, some difference in the skin/model that easily separates them from each other is needed, otherwise its way to confusing.
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Old 12-11-2005, 02:04 PM   #7
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The B-1 Battledroids on Geonosis should have red coloration, the B-2s on Geonosis should have a dull silvery, unpainted look.
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Old 12-11-2005, 06:44 PM   #8
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I agree completely with the whole clone trooper things but your CIS is really boring.



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Old 12-11-2005, 09:42 PM   #9
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I like the clone trooper changes and most of the CIS, except for making the super battle droid the heavy weapons class, I think it's fine the way it is now, also I would let the assassin droid keep their camoflauge skin, or make them a pitch black battle droid on levels with bad lighting, just to make them a bit harder to spot, and so there is some variety between battledroids.

Also I think the engineer droids should be blue like the pilot. I believe remember hearing somewhere that blue battle droids where responsible for repairing, maintaining and piloting CIS vehicles, if so then maybe they could be bothe pilot (on space) and engineer (on ground) levels?


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Old 12-12-2005, 07:01 PM   #10
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I like most of this setup. The CiS I like ok, I would just prefer that there be enough visual difference in them to tell them apart.

The Clones would be great that way, using all the skins seen from EPII and EPIII (as well as some of the animated series/comics). Standard blue skins are somewhat tired in every map, I would really like to see the red, yellow, orange, plain troopers in proper maps. Again, as long as you can tell what class is what on the battlefield, and that none of the models were pushed aside (not used).

Perhaps in a future SWBF2 mod. Hopefully.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:19 PM   #11
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The main problem with the CIS is that i always accidently kill MagnaGuards because they look too much like Clones.



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Old 12-12-2005, 07:43 PM   #12
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Yeah, Ive done that too, it's easy to make mistakes in the midst of a gun fight.

If he was ditched for the commander droid it wouldnt be so much of a problem, or maybe if he had some sort of characteristic that sets him easily identifiable, so you won't mistake him for somthing else.


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Old 12-13-2005, 03:48 AM   #13
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Well TURN FF OFF people.

FF is basically bad for online play, period. And I like it w/o FF off line too but thats another story.

OK that aside, I don't think much change is necessary, and definitely not the superdriod change, though the standard CIS trooper addition would be welcomed.

Though a more canon/realistic color scheme is really attractive, classes should be identified easily, and not by some extremely minor distinction (hey I got a weee little star behind by helmet!)

And yes, the Magna Guard need some changes. He needs his staff back, or maybe ditch the mortar and give him a rifle of sorts (don't mind his missiles too much).
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:07 AM   #14
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But that is the way of the noob. Its much more fun with ff on,as you learn not to shoot your friends in the back...
*ahem*
anyway, i dont like the idea of changing the CIS sniper, 'cos the skin is quite cool. If you look, you'll see that it is all rough and textured, designed to act like camoflauge. We all know it doesnt work, but its just another touch that makes the game what it is
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Well TURN FF OFF people...
With FF off, too many people run by enemy units and drop a mine or blast them in the face with a rocket, then go on and do it again. I just hate that. If the kickbacks from friendly explosions were put back in, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with such skilless tactics.

Everything in the game could have been done differently. There is no certain way something SHOULD have been done. The game is a creative work based off of Star Wars.



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Old 12-13-2005, 08:56 AM   #16
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Isn't there a battlefield mod that converts it to Star Wars? Problem solved. :P

--------------------
As for unit balance, SBDs are cool, and unique, the CIS don't need nerfing. If you can't dodge a slow missile, you deserve to have more fired at you.

Another thing is that it's going to be REALLY difficult to work out what class someone is if their skins keep changing, especially when the clones look all the same (ha ha!). You're going to be running up to random people asking for health or wondering why that person is standing still when he's a sniper, so on and so forth, it ruins the game. For all intentions, I'd prefer if they all kept the same "look" but with appropriate colourations i.e keep the 501st stripes, just change the colours.


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Old 12-13-2005, 09:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redtech
...Another thing is that it's going to be REALLY difficult to work out what class someone is if their skins keep changing...
That is why each weapon needs its own unique model. Its not hard to figure out who is who by the weapon a unit has, assuming the first sentence comes true.



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Old 12-13-2005, 11:02 AM   #18
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I just don't like the idea that every trooper has to look the same on certain levels. If anything, it's a step backwards. I'd at least like to have some gear like extra ammo racks for the heavy troopers (as done now), or paudrons or extra features (think Republic commando MP models). Why should the rebels be the only ones that can get away with slightly different class appearances?

Saying that, weapons as always need to look right. (Although I can see a nasty tactic of using the pistol mainly, then pulling out something heavy when the enemy actually attacks. The good ole' FPS staple).


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Old 12-14-2005, 09:43 AM   #19
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Well maybe because the rebels are just normal people, not droids or clones. Not the word CLONES. That means they are the same and droids would look the same as well


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Old 12-14-2005, 11:13 AM   #20
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Wait a mo, so if a clone army existed now, you expect the "US marines" model to look the same as the "paratroopers" as well as the "Navy seals"?

I'm talking about uniforms!

It just makes it easier to ID units if at least they have the different helmet models like BF2 has with the 501st obsession.

Anyway, they're GMOs, not pure clones, but there you go. Can't for the life of me work out why people think embryo research is illegal.


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Old 12-14-2005, 02:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Andrew
I say nay to the standard, sniper, and engineer skin change. Why? Because it would get extremely confusing if they all started using their blasters; you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the three. I'd make the engineer green, and the sniper maybe a purplish color. Also, instead of the super battle droid shunned to heavy weapons duty, keep it as it is in BF II, while the standard trooper would vary on the map between the normal and super battle droid.
Hmm, yes, good idea. Maybe on 'outdoor' and 'fieldish'maps, you'll have normal B-1 droids. While on indoor (ie. polis massa, tantive IV) and urban (ie. tatooine, naboo) you'd have B-2 droids. Green assault droid I agree, and I guess we'll keep sniper as the camoflauged one. Engineers would be blue as our friend ParanoidAndroid suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterChiefRulZ
Perhaps in a future SWBF2 mod. Hopefully.
Exactly what I was thinking. But I've found little 'grand' mods, like total conversions, just subtle ones. This mod would require model making, and I don't know about creating models and maps for SWBF2 (the tools and such).

I guess a hex-edit could be released that simply introduces changes such as all galactic marines on Mygeeto (with heavy troopers as commander) and all BARC troopers on Kashyyyk etc.. Those changes won't need model making.

And, RedTech, good point with the whole 'getting confused' bit. However, on maps like the Death Star and Tantive IV, the soldier, sniper and heavy classes are identical. The engineer shotgun needs work, though. You can identify classes by seeing what weapon a clone has on maps with identical looking models. But the engineer and soldier guns are the same; we'd have to change the look of the shotgun.

ps. noticed how on most class-based shooters, the engineers always have shotguns?



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Old 12-14-2005, 03:01 PM   #22
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Gosh, if anything SWBF I seemed more accurate to the movies than this. I mean heck; we've got security droids running aroud with rocket launchers, Clone marines calling themselves commanders, and Magna Gaurds running around with a rocket shooting pistol! And we still don't have half decent loading animations.
Take out an empty clip? Why go through all the effort when you have the new improved E-11 blaster rifle?! You can just slap it and its as good as new!
It's also stupid how you never have to reload rockets, you just press a few buttons that aren't there, if you have a big gun to reload you just move your arm slower etc.
And they won't even give us a few good skins...
And then there's the vehicles!


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Old 12-16-2005, 02:10 PM   #23
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I will argue against having seperate "machine gunner classes" for the CIS, the SBD is at least double as good as a normal battle droid. Why penalise the CIS on outdoor maps by giving them a generic grunt? At least the SBD is unique in execution. I'm personally dissapointed the Clones ditched the EMP grenades. I rather like UNIQUENESS in a game. Guess I'm alone here.

Oh yeah, Seraph, I'd also mention that the maps you list are probably the worst ones in BF, and that while it's OK when you're gunning them down, not to have to care what class they are. As I argued, it'd be annoying to be running up to rocket or sniper class troops for ammo because you can't tell them apart! Wouldn't even a backpack or pauldroon or something that you can see from more than point-blank range work? It doesn't have to be blatently outstanding, something that works.

Hey, at least in BF1, the rebels had a black rocket soldier. "Where have all the brothers gone?"
-------------------------------------
Micahc, ever watched the animations for Halo 2? Too much attention to detail. Sadly, the weapons spawn out of nowhere, but it's cool to see that they do the same motion IN FIRST PERSON AS THEY DO IN 3RD PERSON! *Hint*


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Old 12-16-2005, 04:38 PM   #24
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the EMP grenades worked for the Gungans but IMO they were too cartoony for the clones.



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Old 12-16-2005, 05:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redtech
Hey, at least in BF1, the rebels had a black rocket soldier. "Where have all the brothers gone?"
Never noticed that. In SWBF2 they use aliens instead (Bothan Spy).



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Old 12-16-2005, 05:04 PM   #26
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Well, I want blood and organs spilt from wounds and the CIS to do terrorist incidents on innocent Republic citizens (GO ADULT), but the kiddiness of Star Wars denies me. Heck, at least Star Trek had the violence involved with the Jem Haddar (SIC?!)They damn well do a 11/9 to San Francisco and are not afraid of ruining people's organ card status.

For a film where a 9 FT tall SBD has a eunich's voice, would it have been too much to ask for EMP grenades? I mean, kiddy? No 10+ year old could not have been embarrased watching episode 3's emperor.


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Old 12-16-2005, 06:19 PM   #27
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Hmm, I thought the EMP grenades looked cool with the clones, I personally miss them, and thought they looked absolutely ridiculous with the gungans. Guess it just shows you how diffrent peoples opinons can be.

Anyway, I completely agree about the whole way to tell units apart, this is especially true for the heavy weapons unit, who (in the case of the empire and rebublic) should look just like the normal soldier in my opinion, but with extra ammo, shoulder patches, the cool anteane thing the ARC trooper had in BF1, just little extra stuff like that. They don't need entirely diffrent uniforms, but they don't need to look exactly the same either.


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Old 12-24-2005, 12:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redtech
Micahc, ever watched the animations for Halo 2? Too much attention to detail. Sadly, the weapons spawn out of nowhere, but it's cool to see that they do the same motion IN FIRST PERSON AS THEY DO IN 3RD PERSON! *Hint*
Actually I would rather have to much detail than the same reloading animation for every flipping trooper. And if the guns spawn out of nowhere that's ok because weapons don't spawn in this game whatsoever.


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Old 12-27-2005, 08:32 AM   #29
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Yeah, the highlight of co-op is to watch your partner do things like reload or swing weapons in melee and realise that in 3rd person, they are copying the same animations in first person, rather than in battlefront they all do the same animation, but in FPV the dots are the only guide that you're not falling or rolling.


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