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Old 01-19-2006, 10:00 AM   #41
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yep, the Emperor arrived and said, "He's alive, get a medical capsule immediately." then he walks down to anakin and kneels and touches him, nothing else is said. when the Emperor was sitting next to him, anakin just layed there. when he is brought to Coruscant in the medical capsule, you can see him moving around a little, and during the time when he was on the table and the droid were taking off most of the burnt skin, clothes and all that, he was screaming.

poor guy. he went through a lot; how he lost his arm and leg and caught on fire, man, terrible way to go.

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Old 01-19-2006, 11:08 AM   #42
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lolz @ phreak..

*gets out ROTS illustrated screenplay*

Sidious : "There he is ! He's still alive !"

watch it - he appears quite amazed and almost relieved.

Saying that Palpy knows how to cheat death is mere fanboy speculation. Remember ROTJ ? Palpy walks with a cane.... if he was able to cheat death, you'd think he'd keep himself spry on his feet ?

shaded , keep your off topic rants to yourself SW anime has naught to do with Plageuis..

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Old 01-19-2006, 11:36 AM   #43
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yeah well, okay........i'm sure those smilies dont really involve the way you said that last sentence or how i might take the way it was said. it was just a comment because Phreak had "Scar" as an avatar. plus you were the one who threatened to close this nerd fest; if the subject wasnt going anywhere, when everything about the subject was covered, i didnt think it would mean any harm. i will keep the rest of my comments to myself. sorry.....

where is this where Sidious walks with a cane? Return of the Jedi? that "ROTJ" abbreviation stuff is weird. what part was this where Sidious was walking with a cane?

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Old 01-19-2006, 11:45 AM   #44
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Stover, Matthew. Revenge of the Sith
Page 408
The Sith Lord lowered the limbless man tenderly to the cool ground above, and laid his hand across the cracked and blackened mess that once had been his brow, and he set his will upon him.
Live, Lord Vader. Live, my apprentice.
Live.


That could just be an attempt at force heal, or not.

As for Palpatine being all old and stuff. Look at Yoda. He's older and still kicked Dooku's and Palptaine's ass. Plus, isn't the Dark Side supposed to wither and waste your body?
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Old 01-19-2006, 12:06 PM   #45
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but the stuff in the book isnt in the movie, so i mean now we have two thoughts on it. does the dark side waste away your body? might explain Darth Sidious' teeth. lol.

it was a fair fight between Yoda and Sidious, neither one of them kicked either of eachothers ass; it was a tie. but yeah, Yoda had hundreds of years of Jedi training; Sidious probably had atleast 30 to 40, nowhere near to comparision. does this explain the true power of the dark side, enough for it to challenge Yoda? and you could see Yoda was in total control of the situation; giving Sidious a fight for his life, literally.

Sidious looked challenged in the movie, when it shows him screaming or whatever during the fight between him and Yoda. Yoda definately had a focus during that fight.

thats an interesting quote from the book though. see, they should have put that in the movie, then we could have a conclusion to whether Plagueis' ability was taught to Sidious; or if Sidious knew that ability.

"That could just be an attempt at force heal, or not."

when did a Sith just "let" the force do anything? lol

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Old 01-19-2006, 12:58 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
Sidious probably had atleast 30 to 40, nowhere near to comparision.
Well he's probably had far more years of training than that.


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Old 01-19-2006, 01:01 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
but the stuff in the book isnt in the movie, so i mean now we have two thoughts on it. does the dark side waste away your body? might explain Darth Sidious' teeth. lol.
I give the books priority of the movies. It's a personal preference, and I'm sure it irks some people. As for the Dark Side withering his body. I always see Dark Side users withering away from the use of the Dark Side (KOTOR 1&2). In fact, [EU Warning] Palpatine had to keep cloning himself because his body kept wasting away. Could that be Darth Plagueis's power? I doubt it was meant to be, just one of those things that just happen.[/EU (Dark Empire Series)]

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Sidious looked challenged in the movie, when it shows him screaming or whatever during the fight between him and Yoda.
Mace Windu was clearly owning Palpatine. Yoda just realized he couldn't win, and had to bide his time for the future of the Jedi Order.
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Old 01-19-2006, 01:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by StarWarsPhreak

Mace Windu was clearly owning Palpatine. Yoda just realized he couldn't win, and had to bide his time for the future of the Jedi Order.
I think palpatine was pretty much letting mace get the upper hand knowing full well anakin was going to burst in any minute and save him completeing his turn to the darkside.


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Old 01-19-2006, 08:03 PM   #49
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when Yoda was thrown down because of absorbing all that lightning and the release of energy or whatever it was that made them go flying, it threw them both over the edge, literally; Yoda might have thought about the Jedi Order and considered his life and decided to leave, but if he wanted to keep or rebuild the Order, he would have continued and rebuilt it, before Luke. the Order was dead, and as long as Sidious was Emperor it would have been hard to start it again.

whats weird, how is it that only the Jedi of the coucil were shown dying, when there were probably hundreds more all over the galaxy? it only showed the council members, some of them, dying, not the rest of the council. and yeah, when anakin stormed the Jedi temple killing the younglings and padawans, this weakened the Jedi's practice even more, but did this have to destroy the entire Jedi Order?

anakin felt guilty by cutting maces' arm off and immediately Sidious came in with more deception, anakin eventually gave in and pledged himself. anakin was only thinking about himself and padme at the time and God knows what else, which might have been a stupid idea, but, it didnt change that he gave himself over the Sidious. Sidious took advantage of anakin because of how strong the force was with him; Sidious did this with (tried to do this with) Luke also when he realized who Luke was, the power in him, and the thought of the fall of the Jedi; and probably many more reasons.

could you imagine all the emotional conflict in anakin at the time? i mean people go through a lot when things take the toll on your emotions. and for whatever reason he let the dark side of the force consume him so much that it changed his entire ways of thinking. he listened to Sidious when he said:

"Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to save Padme." Darth Sidious

anakin did exactly what Sidious told him; did not hesitate, showed no mercy and became even closer to the dark side until his redemption; without saving padme.

could he of saved padme even if he knew she was alive or not? not if Sidious didnt teach him Plagueis' ability. do you think Sidious was really concerned with anakins love life when Sidious had his own plans for himself and the Empire? yeah, if he taught it to anakin it could have been used for many other reasons besides saving padme, Sidious would of left it up to him, but because padme was dead and anakin couldnt bring her back, and there is no mention of the power Plagueis suppossedly taught Sidious from anakin in the old trilogy, does this mean anakin or Sidious knew it?

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Old 01-19-2006, 09:29 PM   #50
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I agree that Yoda and Palpatine seemed pretty evenly matched in the movie. Yoda just gave up because he lost his midichlorian cloak.

That or he just got too demoralized, because I honestly don't see how falling down or losing his lightsaber temporarily, or the impending arrival of a squad of Stormtroopers would really have mattered too much to Yoda. I mean it's YODA!

Anyway, as far as taking the novels over the movies, that's fine, but that's not the canon policy of LucasFilm or of Lucas himself. The movies ARE Star Wars. Everything else is subserviant to that. Even the novelisation of ROTS is based on the story by George Lucas and the screenplay, but written by somebody else. Approved by Lucas of course, but not the movie, and thus not his "definitive vision" of it. Personal taste aside of course.

IIRC, according to Lucas, in the ROTS audio commentary and perhaps elsewhere in quotations, he says that Palpatine did NOT throw the fight. His plan was to kill Windu like the other Jedi, but Windu was more than a match for him. Read the novel, he was having trouble fighting him, and we can see that Windu was getting the upper hand on him. What was the "deception" was his acting old and feeble in front of Anakin to gain sympathy (please don't let him kill me, I can't hold on any longer... I'm too weak, oh I'm weak, etc). That was playacting. Clearly his lightning wasn't doing any good against Windu since it was all getting blasted back in his face.

According to Lucas the powers Palpy was using wore him down and the stress on his body is what resulted in his "change." It's not that lightning hitting you automatically makes you look old, because it never did that to Yoda or Anakin or Windu. His teeth turn rotten and his fingernails turn long and dirty. Clearly its a change on his whole body, not just his face. He's able bodied, but we know that old people can be able bodied thanks to the force in the prequels. Basically there's a few theories rattling around... that Palpatine was actually much older than he looked and was using the Force to keep his body looking "younger" than normal, and he had to give up this extra power while he was fighting Windu AND blocking his own lightning (or he'd have been hurting himself more than he was with his own bolts and stopped sooner). Another theory is that he kept calling on more and more power and that was what "aged him" rapidly. So even though he's only a 63 year old man, he looks like he's over a hundred thanks to the strain (and I suppose again absorbing his own energy too).

You'd think he could just re-adjust his aim and hit Windu instead of stupidly hitting himself over and over, but perhaps Windu was using the force to channel all the lightning into the energy blade, just as Yoda may have done so into that glowing thing in his hand(s).

So what would have happened if Anakin hadn't shown up? I think he would have been forced to keep fighting and Windu may have killed him after all (since he decided that Palpy was too dangerous to be left alive after all, though his original intention was to simply take him into custody). Did Palpatine, sensing Anakin showing up, decide he'd play weak to gain sympathy? Surely. If Anakin hadn't shown up I think he'd have tried to keep fighting or roll away, perhaps getting klilled int he process. But that's different than saying that he dilberately "threw the fight" and that he'd have killed Windu easily. Lucas didn't intend for us to think that.


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Old 01-19-2006, 10:33 PM   #51
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yeah Sidious did have that whole deception look in his eyes when he addressed anakin to help him, like, he knew what he was doing. kind of strange, even facing death he still tried to convert anakin to the dark side (just like the situation when Plagueis taught everything to his apprentice and the apprentice killed Plagueis in his sleep). what if anakin let him die? lol, he would have been ****ed out of a lot of things, including his role in A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, lol. not the same acter ofcourse, but the same character. if that happened we wouldnt even be having this conversation. i'm glad we are though.

remember the first appearance of the Emperor in A New Hope? he looked like he wore glasses. lol. anyways.

it was probably a wise decision for Yoda to walk away, admitting there might not be anything else he could do, even though, knowing that he MIGHT be able to defeat Sidious, he used his oppurtunity to remember the ways of the Jedi:

"You will know (the good from the bad) when you are calm, at peace. Passive." A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." Master Yoda

this could speak louder; admitting that he was balanced enough to consider the ultimate reality in things and that situation(the good from the bad), peaceful because his decision was influenced by how he thinks; using the force, passive because he cant get over confident and rush into a fight without balance, knowledgeable because he considers all things and defensive because he stands for what he thinks it True; never having to attack but proving that he doesnt have to if he is attacked. Master Yoda was wise.

i can see Plagueis in Sidious, even though i really dont know much about him, i can see the quotes Darth Terros put up towards the beginning of the post, influencing how Sidious was. isnt this how its suppossed to be, unless you disagree with your Master and end up killing him for whatever reason? we learn from our Masters point of veiw and use it to kill him, lol. the Sith are ruthless.

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Old 01-20-2006, 12:00 AM   #52
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Like I said, it's a personal choice that probably irks people

In the ROTS novel, Mace Windu and his use of Vaapad was a clear match for Palpatine. Yoda saw into the future that he could not win against the Sith. The Jedi of old were not prepared, so he left so he would eventually restore the order (through Luke). It is said many times that the Dark Side withers away the user's body.

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isnt this how its suppossed to be, unless you disagree with your Master and end up killing him for whatever reason? we learn from our Masters point of veiw and use it to kill him, lol. the Sith are ruthless.
That is what it is to be Sith. The apprentice learns everytihng he needs, then overthrow the master to become Lord of the Sith. But this is for another discussion as this is a thread about Plagueis.
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Old 01-20-2006, 03:40 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
... Yoda just gave up because he lost his midichlorian cloak.....
lolz...you're kidding right ??

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Old 01-20-2006, 04:09 AM   #54
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It makes perfect sense though. Once he loses the cloak, turn tail and run he does...

Mmmmm....

Anyway, that thing about "Lord of the Sith" is nice, but both Sith Lords are called "Lord." Lord Maul and Lord Sideous. Lord Sideous and Lord Tyrannus. Lord Sideous and Lord Vader... Still, if you're the Master rather than the apprentice, it's like, wow, you're the King of an army of two. Big deal!

Yoda probably sensed that he'd die fighting this battle, but he should have sucked it up and gone in full throttle. It was his only chance to stop the Sith and he had a great chance at it. If he killed the Sith and then died, hey, at least he stopped the Sith, right? With Palpatine dead, his Empire would be over before it began, then the reforming Senators could fill the gap. Why would Yoda want to go into exile anyway? All his closest friends and basically the folks who've been his family all his life are dead. Of course with his long life he probably has gone through countless generations of students and friends, but still. Basically if he does this, he'll perhaps die himself and Sideous will be dead, but isn't that better than letting the galaxy suffer under 25 years of oppression, billions of deaths, the Galactic Civil War, and dying on some crappy swamp planet? Obviously Lucas wrote himself into a corner here, and so Yoda just had to run away from a pretty even fight.

He lost his midichlorian cloak!


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Old 01-20-2006, 09:32 AM   #55
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"That is what it is to be Sith. The apprentice learns everytihng he needs, then overthrow the master to become Lord of the Sith. But this is for another discussion as this is a thread about Plagueis."

if we are talking about one of the most influencial Sith that ever walked or taught, anything, dont you think that it is part of what the thread needs to get you to think on Plagueis? especially if it is about him and his apprentice, being Sidious learned from Plagueis? we cant just get into a theory without contemplating every possible idea about why this is the way it is or what it is about without considering all the facts.

and Yoda lost his cloak, lol, and never wore it again......

Yoda could have gone full force, but this goes against his teaching to Luke:

"never for attack." Master Yoda.

it doesnt mean he couldnt of killed Sidious, it just means that he didnt and considered what might happen if he tried; he could have failed not only against saving the Jedi Order, but failed by losing his life and the Jedi Order never coming back. he had a chance with Luke and succeeded. was Luke even a Jedi after maybe 3 years in training? just because you knew some things on the force doesnt mean you know enough the bring back the Jedi Order, even though Luke did, what could happen to it if he were to have an apprentice who disagreed with his teachings, slew him and started the Sith teachings once again, as the Sith do? the Jedi Order would be in even more darkness because he never truely understood what it meant to know the force, enough to teach it.

like any teacher or Master you have to understand what is possible with what you know. like Yoda also said before he died:

"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Luke... Luke... do not... do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will. Luke, when gone am I... the last of the Jedi will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walk...er. Master Yoda

"pass on what you have learned" is a way for both Jedi and Sith, because in order to teach you need to know what you have learned, what you have experienced with what you've learned and what you know is evident with what to know; by using it.

Plagueis was killed for what he taught Sidious, the ways of the Sith, does this mean that even Sidious understood anything other then what his Master taught him? it does not matter his politcal accomplishments, yes, they were part of it, but that is something more complex; but, in everything that we do, we are to be True with what we know, towards how we are in what we do, in everything it is that we do. this can be for either the Sith or the Jedi and is part of them both.

if we want to get into a conversation about Darth Plagueis we need to know more information on him. does anyone know where to get this information?

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Old 01-20-2006, 10:29 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
....if we want to get into a conversation about Darth Plagueis we need to know more information on him. does anyone know where to get this information?....
wiki !

lolz, as has been mentioned already there are 4 sources which mention Plageuis
*ROTS movie
*ROTS Novelisation/Screenplay
*Labyrinthe Of Evil Novel (mentioned him first)
*SW Databank

CUSWE Entry

so, until more material is released eg, there were hints at a sith lord novel(like the Darth Bane Novel) which will focus on either him or Sidious - there aint much to go on All that is left is fanboy speculation, which is basically a waste of time...

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Old 01-20-2006, 10:51 AM   #57
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yeah wiki doesnt have anything on him, i checked. its got him listed but barely any information.

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Old 01-20-2006, 12:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
yeah wiki doesnt have anything on him, i checked. its got him listed but barely any information.

seth

lolz... I was being sarcastic... wiki is hardly an official or reliable source. Any clown can write/edit a wiki article, even I have!(check the entry for Lucasforums ) For all and any SW and EU information you just dont need to look anywhere other than sw.com and the CUSWE/Chronology at TFN, which compiles official source material.

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Old 01-20-2006, 12:26 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
the CUSWE/Chronology at TFN, which compiles official source material.
But then again i've found some stuff on that to be not wholly trust worthy and occasionally outdated *remember the Darth Zannah thing astro? seems they changed it for the new version*


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Old 01-20-2006, 01:09 PM   #60
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Quote:
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But then again i've found some stuff on that to be not wholly trust worthy and occasionally outdated *remember the Darth Zannah thing astro? seems they changed it for the new version*
Yes, but they changed to reflect the changes in the EU material, they weren't making up things. I love how CUSWE lists its sources for each entry. awesome

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Old 01-20-2006, 01:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
Yes, but they changed to reflect the changes in the EU material, they weren't making up things. I love how CUSWE lists its sources for each entry. awesome

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Yeah and at least the CUSWE cant modified by every loser out there like wiki.


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Old 01-20-2006, 01:45 PM   #62
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what the **** is CUSWE?

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Old 01-20-2006, 01:52 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
what the **** is CUSWE?

seth
I assume it means Completey Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia


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Old 01-20-2006, 02:07 PM   #64
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question: if it is unofficial why would i want to read what it says?

a good sense of knowledge is legit, not questionable, unless you dont know what the knowledge is about; then we ask the questions. like Astrotoy7 said, it could all be fanboy stuff.....but i will check it out anyway.

plus, i looked at the site on stuff about the Sith, they have like a few articles on it, with barely any information. whats up with that? how reliable can that be if i am trying to find out information on a subject like, Darth Plagueis; or any other Sith?

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Old 01-20-2006, 02:09 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by shaded6
how reliable can that be if i am trying to find out information on a subject like, Darth Plagueis

You'll find very little information because **** all is known about him yet except he was sidious's master and claim to be able to keep people alive thats it nothing more nothing less


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Old 01-20-2006, 02:23 PM   #66
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but the power was never proven to exist, especially if Sidious was actually Plagueis' apprentice. in the movie, Revenge of the Sith, Palpetine only admits that Plagueis knew the power, not that Palpetine was his apprentice or was taught the power. ofcourse he couldnt tell anakin that at the time, but he never told anakin that he was Plagueis' apprentice at all after he became Darth Vader; or if he {Sidious} even had that power.

why would Sidious talk about a power he did not know; reguardless of trying to convert anakin, why would it be a subject if he truely did not know the ability?

man, i can feel this **** in my bones! now i think i can grasp the idea of the dark side and how it consumes you; because it engulfs you to the point you give into it. (control yourself)

sorry: writing all this **** gets me excited. i kind of want to go conquer a system or something.....

Darth Terros: i offered this of Astrotoy7 and she never responded but i want to offer you the same thing;

lets elaborate together and take over the galaxy.....the old fashioned Sith way.

seth


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Old 01-20-2006, 02:41 PM   #67
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CUSWE is reliable because people work hard to make it so. It is a good source of information, and more reliable than Wikipedia for Star Wars information.

Quote:
why would Sidious talk about a power he did not know; reguardless of trying to convert anakin, why would it be a subject if he truely did not know the ability?
Mainly to convert Anakin. He mentions Padme to get to him.
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Old 01-20-2006, 02:58 PM   #68
Darth_Terros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
why would Sidious talk about a power he did not know; reguardless of trying to convert anakin, why would it be a subject if he truely did not know the ability?
He talked about this power because he knew anakin had been having nightmares about padme dying he wanted anakin to believe the darkside could help her even if it wasnt true so that it make him more likely to choose that path

And sorry i decline the offer of joining you as its

A) fake
and
B) I doubt even if i was a sith lord you'd be worthy to even be the guy that gets my Sith robes dry cleaned as you seem to lack even the basic concepts of the sith order.



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Old 01-20-2006, 03:47 PM   #69
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well since you know so much on the Sith Order, why then arent you some powerful Sith Lord already (theoretically)? you always say something like that, my misconceptions, whatever, yeah, why is it i ask questions then; if not to find answers? i wouldnt wash your robes even if you asked, if you did, you wouldnt like what i might think i am obligated to do then. no trouble started, but, dont try and make me feel like a low life because you have all the answers. i sware, no sense of conduct. why is it that you are this way, especially towards me?

i mean by all means, it does not bother me, its on you to come to your conclusions, which effect you, not me. all i have to do is sit back and watch it unfold.

but you, you have this mentality towards me that makes no difference whatsoever; lol, funny, because i get to laugh from time to time, or i get extremely blissful when a full out rage comes on and i push all the energy into my very being, controlling it and using it in a possitive way. funny, i'm not so consumed that i have to act out on that rage; so what is the concept of the dark side again?

tell me your understanding about the code, if:

"you {I} seem to lack even the basic concepts of the sith order." Darth Terros


elaborate, dont portray yourself to know if your not willing to explain and back up your theory or ultimate knowledge of the dark side of the force.

i will start a new thread for this, actually, its already started: "origin of the Sith: the dark side."

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
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Old 01-20-2006, 03:51 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
well since you know so much on the Sith Order, why then arent you some powerful Sith Lord
Its not real.


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Old 01-20-2006, 03:57 PM   #71
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and that proves that you have no sense of humore whatsoever.....

"well duh!"

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:05 PM   #72
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Nothing you've said has been in the slightest bit funny.


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Old 01-20-2006, 04:11 PM   #73
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maybe not to you or anyone else for that matter.

i'm not trying to be funny by the way. if i can get a laugh out of it, i most definately will, without anyone elses opinion.

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:25 PM   #74
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Alright, we've gotten all we can from this thread. In the future, please keep the bickering off the board or in PMs.
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