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Old 05-20-2005, 10:31 PM   #1
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Question how would you fix EU

with all the movies being released now. i was thinking how would i fix things in eu.

one thing that i think is easily fixed is something from the thrawn series.

the clones that are created without yslamari (spelling?) being crazy are actually prototype clones and thats why they were in the emporer's secret storage. he was trying to perfect a cloning in secrecy before mass production. This is needed cuz its easily seen clones are every where and extremely sane.

EP 3 spoiler
spoiler:

obi-wan told luke that he was losing touch with him and could not keep coming to him because he wanted to force luke to stand on his on two feet so he would be ready to lead the new jedi.
This would be needed since yoda says they can learn immortality through this technique, so i'm thinking it can't be unlearned and they can always appear as ghost.


anybody else have something they think or want to fix without going overboard.


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Old 05-20-2005, 11:20 PM   #2
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Well, most of these things would probably be better ignored then fixed, but these are the things I noticed that overwrite stuff in the EU:

spoiler:
Ki-Adi-Mundi was said to be the only Jedi Knight on the Jedi council. Now Anakin said it has never happened.


spoiler:
In Shatterpoint (I think), it said that Mace Windu was put on the council when he was 13 (at least I think it was 13). Now they said that Anakin was the youngest person ever to be on the council.


spoiler:
I'm not sure about this one. I can't remember if they said how long Valorum was chancellor, but I think I remember it being a long time. Now we find out that there are maximum amounts of time they can serve for.


Quote:
Originally posted by eastcoast2895
the clones that are created without yslamari (spelling?) being crazy are actually prototype clones and thats why they were in the emporer's secret storage. he was trying to perfect a cloning in secrecy before mass production. This is needed cuz its easily seen clones are every where and extremely sane.
This doesnt really need to be fixed, I don't think. The only clones this was an issue for are the Spaarti clones. They are very clearly entirely different cloning techniques. Most likely the reason for the insanity (as well as the odd feeling in the force of clones) is the flash memory thing. Kamino clones obviously dont have that (or need for that), so they wouldn't need ysalimiri. Also, iirc (its been a while since I read TTT) Spaarti clones could be made sane without the use of ysalimiri, but it takes much longer (10 years I think, the same amount of time the Kamino clones are grown in). Thrawn needed to quickly mobilize clone forces, so he used the Spaarti cylinders (which most likely were not used much prior to this, because without the ysalimiri it is an inferior method for most purposes) and ysalimiri instead of other cloning methods.


Yeah, you'd think the Emperor had come back to life or something.
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:33 AM   #3
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yeah i agree with Shok, about the clones in the TTT. The reason that ysalamari were needed, was so that they could accelerate the process without causing damage. Since the Kaminoans clones are grown from birth, at no where near the accelerated growth rate (Thrawn's troops took a mere months to grow) there is really no conflict

Ki-Adi-Mundi : I assumed that he became a jedi master when he was appointed onto the council
spoiler:
anakin did not become a master when he was appointed


Mace: got nothing.. better confirm that in shatterpoint tho..

spoiler:
i guess this is sort of an ep2 conflict as well, but in the TTT mara says that vader lost his hand after the death star was destroyed as punishment. His hand was cut of in ep2, and his other hand was also cut of in ep3 by Obi. No hands left to be lost




there's quite a bit of saga conflicts that occur .. see the ep3 thread at yoda's swamp.


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Old 05-22-2005, 02:37 PM   #4
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My biggest problem with the post ROTJ EU is some of the characterizations. I'd like to see the new Jedi Order be redone to include all that is known about the Jedi now.

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Old 05-23-2005, 05:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
My biggest problem with the post ROTJ EU is some of the characterizations. I'd like to see the new Jedi Order be redone to include all that is known about the Jedi now.
strange comment prime

the njo contained some very astute observations on the nature of the force. This chiefly was outlined throgh the interaction of jacen and vergere in the outstanding novel "Traitor" and beyond. You really need to read these because they are the essence of the the njo, and have set up for the post njo series - a lot of ppl dislike the njo because they dont like the Yuuzhan Vong. The Vong are not the focus of the series at the end of the day. The focus is, as always with star wars - the jedi

Lukes "new jedi order" had to be different, because it started from scratch. Thats why most of the jedi featured *do* have wives, children etc...


I wouldnt fix EU. I like it just the way it is, flaws and all _Of course there are some books I didnt enjoy, but thats life

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Old 08-21-2005, 03:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shok_Tinoktin
spoiler:
Ki-Adi-Mundi was said to be the only Jedi Knight on the Jedi council. Now Anakin said it has never happened.
That is not a conflict, just a misinterpretation. What Anakin said was that nobody was ever on the council and weren't a Jedi master. Ki-Adi-Mundi was the first Jedi knight to get into the council before becoming a master, but once he became part of the council, he was promoted to Jedi master.
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Old 10-23-2005, 06:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abespam
spoiler:
i guess this is sort of an ep2 conflict as well, but in the TTT mara says that vader lost his hand after the death star was destroyed as punishment. His hand was cut of in ep2, and his other hand was also cut of in ep3 by Obi. No hands left to be lost

spoiler:
It sends a message to all Imperials: Errors are punished. Even Darth Vader won't escape punishment. Off couse they woulldn't know Vader's hand was mechanical in the first place, so the impact is a lot bigger for them than for Vader. So it's more an administrative punishment.
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Old 10-23-2005, 09:10 PM   #8
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Hey, don't you just love the EU explanation for the New Jedi being different from the Old? Oh, the Old Jedi were idiots, this is an improvement!

When in reality it was just they didn't know (both the characters AND the writers!)...

I think the original poster is asking for how you'd fix it, not just to repeat the rectons and rationalizations that are already official (ie: there was more than one cloning technique... after all in TTT they act like it is THE cloning technique, it's considered "lost" and "banned" technology, and Luke & co. are "shocked" to see the use of clones by the Empire... not just that they were Spaarti clones, and no reference is ever made to feeling weird vibes in the Force around stormtroopers, even though Lucas explicitly states during the classic trilogy the Empire still uses clones at least in part, and the pre-AOTC EU assumes no Stormtroopers are clones...).

Those that are already happy with the EU as is, and wouldn't change a thing, obviousliy aren't planning to do any fixing, logically.


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Old 10-30-2005, 01:48 PM   #9
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One thing that I think is really stupid about the post-RotJ stuff is when Luke falls to the Dark Side.
Another is the cloning of Emperor Plapatine. Get a new villain, for crying out loud!
I also hated the fact that Luke and mara Jade got married. Isn't love forbidden to the Jedi?
I didn't like the post-RotJ stuff much beyond the Thrawn Trilogy. That was a good series.
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Old 10-30-2005, 06:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor
I also hated the fact that Luke and mara Jade got married. Isn't love forbidden to the Jedi?
Yeah, let's not forget the whole New part of the New Jedi Order.

I wouldn't really fix anything. Fixing it would most likely only cause exponential problems. Just leave it as is, and accept what you want and ignore what you want.
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Old 10-30-2005, 06:44 PM   #11
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lol, new Jedi Order...

It's only not like the old Jedi Order because Luke didn't know anything about it.
The only way i would change EU is have Yoda tell Luke all about the ways of the old Jedi Order and have the academy on Coruscant instead of Yavin freaking IV (!?)



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Old 10-31-2005, 01:01 AM   #12
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With the whole Vong thing fresh in mind, putting it on Yavin IV doesn't seem to have been such a bad idea, considering what happened to Coruscant.




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Old 01-23-2006, 10:40 PM   #13
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Before you read prepare yourself....

Before you read prepare yourself....

How to fix EU:
1. Ignore the whole 'New Jedi Order' series. - I know it breathed new air into the novels, but I tried as hard to read 'Destiny's Way', but I stoped after the introduction. I could careless about the Jedi offspring of Han and Leia, and Mara and Luke.

3. Ignore the marriage between Luke and Mara. - Mara was better on her own. I just finished 'Survivor's Quest', and I thought being called, "Mara Jade-Skywalker' was very anoying. Her dark thoughts and independants rocked novels.

4. Return Boba Fett to his sadistic attitude about getting his bounty. He is an emotionless character who spears at no expence to capture his prey.

5. Thrawn rocks... However, Zhan has to put this character to sleep. Every book I read from him is Thrawn this Thrawn that. If Zhan wrote a game for KotOR, for some reason or another Thrawn will be in a time machine, and he would be alive 4,000 ago... Otherwords, we need a newer villian.

6. True Sith?!? Someone was on crack... Ignore it.

7. Write more stories about Luke and his Darkside tempations.

8. Write novels based upon KotOR's Revan. (Even thought I am getting a little tired of him/her.)

9. Create stories about new Jedi. Rouge ones...

That is all I have for now... I warned you... Hehehe....



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Old 01-24-2006, 05:35 AM   #14
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Macleod, half of what you refer to isnt even EU. This is the EU forum, so keep your whining to the EU

I like what you wrote about Thrawn, I can easily imagine that Zahn writing such a silly story He has milked Thrawn for 7 books, it gives me the shytes... All the other SW authors have written and created many wonderful characters and places. With him its always Thrawn, or his hand, or his clone. Whats next ? The Buttcrack of Thrawn ??

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Old 01-24-2006, 07:50 AM   #15
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The only thing I would fix in the EU, was the reorganisation of the New Republic into the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances. If anything, they shouldn't have renamed it.

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Old 01-24-2006, 11:39 AM   #16
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The Chiss bore the hell out of me.

Im not a Zahn fan in the slightest it was his work that put me off reading starwars novels for a long time and only recently have i started to get back into them.

Oh i'd also burn everything KJA has ever done! yes this includes the tales of the jedi comics some of the worst stuff i've read i pulled out the knights of teh old republic graphic novel and re-read it oh crap it was horribly written!

The whole bit with tot doneeta speaking in the Bomas language made me cringe!

It also has some of the worst art work i've seen and i've read a lot of poorly drawn crap.



Anyway i'd wish they give this story a huge redo and then update the art work too



Just plain bloody crap!! KJA was the worst thing to happen to the EU.

Anyway thats my mini rant done.


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Old 01-24-2006, 03:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
Macleod, half of what you refer to isnt even EU. This is the EU forum, so keep your whining to the EU

I like what you wrote about Thrawn, I can easily imagine that Zahn writing such a silly story He has milked Thrawn for 7 books, it gives me the shytes... All the other SW authors have written and created many wonderful characters and places. With him its always Thrawn, or his hand, or his clone. Whats next ? The Buttcrack of Thrawn ??

mtfbwya
I will make sure to filter out Non-EU stuff from this thread... Oops.. Two out of the eleven were not EU....

As for Thrawn, Zhan is writing about the "Outbound Flight'.

spoiler:
The story is about how Thrawn attacked the refugees of the 'Outbound Flight'. They can't tell this story without Thrawn, for he is the main bad dude. This will be book number 8 about Thrawn... I am curious about the 'Outbound Flight', but come on... *Stat Whinning Here*



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Old 01-24-2006, 03:52 PM   #18
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I thought that the 'Outbound Flight' was a ship created to travel beyond the known galaxy...



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Old 01-24-2006, 04:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineCult
I thought that the 'Outbound Flight' was a ship created to travel beyond the known galaxy...
spoiler:
Yeah! It was loaded with refugees that wanted to start a new life. Jedi included. They were fleeing the laws of the Republic and Jedi Council of the Yoda-Windo Era. If you read 'Survivor's Quest', it would be useless to read 'Outbound Flight', for they tell you the fate of everyone aboard. The ship was intercepted by Thrawn...


^^^
However, this doesn't belong in this thread...



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Old 01-28-2006, 02:22 PM   #20
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My two cents

Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I actually started looking at it cause I wanted a place to get my fanfiction posted and critiqued (I really want to become a writer some day). as far as the topic of this thread, I like it just the way it is save for one thing:

Stop going so far ahead in the world!! There are so many stories that could be told throughout the eras, and they seem to be rushing them. Star Wars is awesome, mostly due to the Big Three (well, four, cause Mara rocks). Why do we want to see Grandpa Luke, waving his Lightrocker!!

Also, what the hell is up with the characters? They want to push up the timelines but keep the characters static in their relationships! C'mon, jaina, make a choice: Zekk or Jag!

Don't get me started on Jacen! Personally, I wish that Anakin woulda been the one to survive, cause Jacen was such a whinny....yeah, sorry, I'm a Marine and almost showed. He needs to hook up with Tenel Ka and get his head out of his, we'll go britsh, arse!

We need more stories about interesting side characters, not just the Solo twins.

Oh, and while we're on the Solo twins, who the HELL made them God's gift to the Star Wars Universe! Point, how often is it the JUNIOR Knights, not even Knights, APPRENTICES telling their family and Corran Horn how things are. It pisses me off! What about Corran's experiance, with all of his CorSec and Jedi traning, he still needs to defer to Jaina? A 16 through 20 year old? And that goes with the rest of them! the YJKs always seem to know what's going on, but screw the other Knights. Corran was soo kick ass in the X-wing and I, Jedi series; now, he's an idiot.

I further think they handled Kyp Durron's character completely wrong. One minute, he's a humbled Jedi at the end of the Jedi Academy series then we don't hardly see him till they defeat Admiral Daala. Still a good guy. But where was the change? When did he become such an ass as seen in Vector Prime? I don't follow his transition.

I think the New Jedi Order sucked, cause, personally, I felt it really wasn't about the Jedi and more about the Vong and Solo kids. However, I did love a number of the books, just the series grated at me. easily, my least favorite timeperiod, though I was gripped by Star by Star and Traitor. unifiying force was good, but the ending was too clean. All of a sudden, the Vong are done. This is a force that swept through the entire universe like that *snaps fingers* and just goes away? Because they found the homeworld or part of it?

The EU also suffers from the common Star Wars theme: Lack of Jedi. There are other Jedi out there. do we have to hear about how great and wise the Solo Kids are?

Okay, that's more than one, please forgive me. Found out I had a late night meeting lol.
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Old 01-28-2006, 02:38 PM   #21
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I agree, I have no time for the NJO, the Solo kids and the Vong just don't interest me, I prefer prequel EU.



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Old 01-28-2006, 11:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Klay
Hi all, I'm new to this forum.
Welcome! I hope you will stick around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Klay
Stop going so far ahead in the world!! There are so many stories that could be told throughout the eras, and they seem to be rushing them. Star Wars is awesome, mostly due to the Big Three (well, four, cause Mara rocks). Why do we want to see Grandpa Luke, waving his Lightrocker!!
I agree to an extent. While I love the big three (and I don't think Mara should be included in that group), I think that there is plenty of great Star Wars that does not deal with their story.

But you are absolutely correct about "Grandpa" Luke and the like. The fact that they actually had to come up with some lame new "aging is different in the SW universe and 60 is actually like 40" hack shows how much they are desperately dragging things out. They had to come up with an excuse for why they kept Han running around attempting to save the galaxy at 70+ and still look more or less the same as he did in the films, and yet other characters like Dooku, who was a decade or so older as of AOTC, actually looks his age.

Did they realize that at this stage of the timeline they had not created any characters that were interesting/or "loved" enough to take over from them? The Solo twins are dispised by a to-large-to-ignore segment of the fandom, and they are really the only characters that have been focused on. Most of the interesting characters from the early EU have been sacrificed for the Solo teeny-boppers.

As you say, there are many eras and other stories that could be told. But to some extent they seem to just be dragging the Big 3 on too long...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Klay
Also, what the hell is up with the characters? They want to push up the timelines but keep the characters static in their relationships! C'mon, jaina, make a choice: Zekk or Jag!
This is one thing that has turned me off some of the post-ROTJ stories. The Jaina "relationships" seem so adolescent to me. A Jedi version of 90210.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Klay
Don't get me started on Jacen! Personally, I wish that Anakin woulda been the one to survive, cause Jacen was such a whinny....yeah, sorry, I'm a Marine and almost showed. He needs to hook up with Tenel Ka and get his head out of his, we'll go britsh, arse!
At least they seem to be doing something with him. Right now they seem to be sending him down the path to the dark side. I think it would be a great springboard to better stories. He would make a much more interesting villain, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Klay
We need more stories about interesting side characters, not just the Solo twins.
Definitely. Because the focus has been placed so much on the Solo/Skywalker clans, just about every other character is only an archtype. The earlier post-ROTJ EU had a lot of potentially good characters, but they have more or less been left as background.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Klay
I further think they handled Kyp Durron's character completely wrong. One minute, he's a humbled Jedi at the end of the Jedi Academy series then we don't hardly see him till they defeat Admiral Daala. Still a good guy. But where was the change? When did he become such an ass as seen in Vector Prime? I don't follow his transition.
He is probably the biggest ******* in Star Wars, IMO. The fact that a Jedi would act in such a manner is a disgrace. Then again, I feel the same about most of the current Jedi, including ones that I previously liked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Klay
The EU also suffers from the common Star Wars theme: Lack of Jedi. There are other Jedi out there. do we have to hear about how great and wise the Solo Kids are?
On the otherhand, there are too many Jedi, at the expense of other archtypes. The EU is very Jedi-centric these days, which I think is unfortunate. Those of us who grew up with the OT did not necessarily follow SW because of the Jedi. Bounty hunters, pilots, smugglers, and the like are just as much Star Wars as the Jedi. I think the EU would do well to start balancing those kinds of characters back in.

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Old 01-29-2006, 07:45 AM   #23
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The movies themself is only half about the Jedi.

First 3 episodes: The demise of the Jedi.
Last 3 episodes: The victory over the Sith Empire by ordinary people like you and I. The Jedi could not help this time, because they were mostly eradicated. Only a handfull few were left.




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