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Old 01-26-2006, 09:33 PM   #1
Aenon Jurtis
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Which is stronger Light side or Dark side or are they equal?

i just want to know your opinions on this subject


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Old 01-26-2006, 09:40 PM   #2
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None... Dark Side is easyer but Lightside is more rewarding.
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Old 01-26-2006, 09:52 PM   #3
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thats what i though i was just wondering because i just got into an argument with a friend who thought that the dark side was stronger because the sith wiped out almost all the jedi except those that hid. and i was arguing that, like what you said, that neither was because neither force managed to destroy one another throughout the history of the whole starwars history that we know


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"If so powerful you are. Why leave?"
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"Fath in your aprentice, misplaced me thinks, as is your faith in the dark side"
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:07 PM   #4
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Lol and you can tell your friend that the only reason that the Jedi where wiped out was because of Anakin and Sidious. They where not normal force users and plus Anakin is belevied to be created by the Mediclorians themselfs so thats why.
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Old 01-27-2006, 04:55 AM   #5
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I dont even know why the debate is necessary...This was answered in ESB:

LUKE - Is the dark side more stronger ?
YODA - No.... quicker easier, more seductive


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Old 01-27-2006, 05:01 AM   #6
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I think it all depends on who is currently aligned to what side at the moment. At the end of RotS, the Dark Side was stronger. At the end of RotJ, it was the Light Side.


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Old 01-27-2006, 11:56 AM   #7
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I think it depends on the person in question trying to use the particular side of the Force. The Force is not stronger than itself.
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Old 01-27-2006, 02:46 PM   #8
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"...to become the most powerful Jedi, and the only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark side because the Dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side..."

- George Lucas [AOTC commentary]
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:24 AM   #9
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yes but-

"is the dark side stronger?" - luke
"NO.....but easily more seductive" - yoda - The Empire Strikes Back


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Old 01-29-2006, 11:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
yes but-

"is the dark side stronger?" - luke
"NO.....but easily more seductive" - yoda - The Empire Strikes Back
Jedi propaganda. If George said it, it is final.
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:26 PM   #11
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either can be stronger, from a certain point of view.


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Old 01-29-2006, 04:14 PM   #12
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According to Yoda (Empire Strikes Back), the Dark Side is not stronger (no "Light Side" is ever mentioned in the movies). According to George Lucas, the Dark Side is stronger (AOTC DVD commentary). According to video games like Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight II, and Jedi Academy, the two sides are basically equal, just different (game mechanics for balance sake). Now across Star Wars mythology, going with authorial intent, good triumphs over evil in the end (even if evil happens to be stronger) and the Dark Side IS evil, whereas the Force is a power for good. It's better to be good than it is to be bad, says Lucas. Life works better that way, he says.

In the early scripts of Star Wars, the Dark Side is the "para-force" a corruption of the Force, which is all over the place. So it's a cancer growing. Does that mean it would one day overcome the Force itself? Perhaps, but at least at the present time, it's less all encompassing as the Force itself, so it's not "more powerful" in that sense. But that idea isn't really touched on in the actual movies, at least not until AOTC and ROTS with the "shroud of the Dark Side" idea, but even then it's rather vaguely explained.

Now if you go with some silly New Jedi Order character, then the Dark and Light Sides are just mistaken philosophies and the Force is really completely differnet than everybody thought for millennia. But that doesn't really tell us which is "stronger."

Palpatine seems more powerful than any of the "Light Side" Jedi, but then he has weaknesses, like his overconfidence and his faith in the Dark Side of the Force and in his apprentice, Darth Vader.


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Old 01-30-2006, 07:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
yes but-

"is the dark side stronger?" - luke
"NO.....but easily more seductive" - yoda - The Empire Strikes Back
lolz...you obviously dont read the posts above yours !

@Prime - c'mon, who do you believe, GL or YODA ! I cant believe he's contradicted himself so magnficiently !! Unless Yoda was lying of course, the sneaky little booger

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Old 01-30-2006, 08:45 AM   #14
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Maybe Yoda thought it was true, because he was so strong in the force himself, (perhaps stronger than he would have been using the dark side.)



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Old 01-30-2006, 01:32 PM   #15
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Is there an article on the internet that shows that George Lucas said that the Dark Side is stronger?
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Old 01-30-2006, 01:50 PM   #16
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no sorry i don't have time

but in the end the message we get through all of sw is that the two will be at war for all eternity light and dark andnone will defeat the other so in fact they are equal - end of story


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Old 01-30-2006, 01:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by han sala
Is there an article on the internet that shows that George Lucas said that the Dark Side is stronger?
han sala ffs read the above posts in a thread before posting,
Prime posted: "...to become the most powerful Jedi, and the only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark side because the Dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side..."

- George Lucas [AOTC commentary]



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Old 01-30-2006, 04:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
@Prime - c'mon, who do you believe, GL or YODA ! I cant believe he's contradicted himself so magnficiently !! Unless Yoda was lying of course, the sneaky little booger
Lucas hasn't contradicted himself at all. Yoda is simply a character created by Lucas that is expressing what he views as the truth from his point of view. There are other characters created by Lucas that view things very differently, such as Vader and Palpatine. Because their views are different than Yoda's and Kenobi's does that mean Lucas is contradicting himself in that regard as well? Of course not.

Yoda knows (and Lucas states it as well) that the dark side will ultimately be the undoing for those who use it. So if using the dark side ultimately "destroys" you, then in that regard it is not stronger than the light side (for lack of a better term) because that does not destroy you. So Yoda very reasonably thinks that since the dark side leads to your undoing it isn't really a viable option, and so is not stronger in the long run. Which can be argued is correct.

The context in which Lucas states that the dark side is stronger is dealing with gaining access to powers that otherwise would not be available. We already knew this to be the case with things such as Sith lightning. This point disregards the downsides of doing such things. He is saying that technically the dark side is more powerful because it provides access to more abilities as well as being easier and quicker to use (another form of "powerful").

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
yes but-

"is the dark side stronger?" - luke
"NO.....but easily more seductive" - yoda - The Empire Strikes Back
That is what a character says, which may or may not be entirely accurate (for whatever reason) in regards to how the universe actually works. Also, the character may have views that take morals and experience into account. There are other characters also created by Lucas that have different views.

Ultimately, what Lucas says trumps everything else, but it needs to be viewed in context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue15
either can be stronger, from a certain point of view.
That still is probably the best way to discribe things in the end. It depends on the definition of "strong" and what the end goal is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
According to Yoda (Empire Strikes Back), the Dark Side is not stronger (no "Light Side" is ever mentioned in the movies). According to George Lucas, the Dark Side is stronger (AOTC DVD commentary). According to video games like Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight II, and Jedi Academy, the two sides are basically equal, just different (game mechanics for balance sake).
All these are accurate, depending on your point of view. And point taken on how implementations in games take into account gameplay. In the end I don't think any of the above are wrong, they just come from different contexts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Now across Star Wars mythology, going with authorial intent, good triumphs over evil in the end (even if evil happens to be stronger) and the Dark Side IS evil, whereas the Force is a power for good. It's better to be good than it is to be bad, says Lucas. Life works better that way, he says.
And not destroying yourself is always a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Now if you go with some silly New Jedi Order character, then the Dark and Light Sides are just mistaken philosophies and the Force is really completely differnet than everybody thought for millennia. But that doesn't really tell us which is "stronger."
With the latest Dark Nest trilogy a lot of what was portrayed in the NJO as "fact" (again this what characters are stating) in regards to the Force is being "undone", in the sense that they are showing the mistakes and what the downfalls are from that philosphy and how they can lead to your undoing. They have been going out of their way to line up many NJO views with Anakin.

Ultimately, they are finding out for themselves what the OR Jedi found out millenia ago, and what Anakin learned first hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
but in the end the message we get through all of sw is that the two will be at war for all eternity light and dark andnone will defeat the other so in fact they are equal - end of story
Incorrect. The whole point of the prophecy was that Anakin would destroy the Sith and the dark side and bring balance to the Force (i.e. no dark side). Ultimitely, that is what happened. In its natural state the Force exists with no dark side.

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Old 02-01-2006, 10:07 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
.... from his point of view....
I just knew you were going to bring that "certain point of view" point up ! Do you remember Luke's reaction when Ben used it on him, the lying old ghosty basted

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Old 02-01-2006, 12:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Incorrect. The whole point of the prophecy was that Anakin would destroy the Sith and the dark side and bring balance to the Force (i.e. no dark side). Ultimitely, that is what happened. In its natural state the Force exists with no dark side.
not inncorrect at all! the prophecy said was he would bring balance to the force i.e an equlibrium which if there was no dark to contrast the light would not be possible - (that is why i'm right and you are wrong................ha)


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Old 02-01-2006, 12:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
I just knew you were going to bring that "certain point of view" point up !
But every character in the story has their own point of view.

You are seeing what they say as absolutes, which we know is the way of the Sith!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
not inncorrect at all! the prophecy said was he would bring balance to the force i.e an equlibrium which if there was no dark to contrast the light would not be possible - (that is why i'm right and you are wrong................ha)
But the prophecy isn't saying that, which is why what you are saying is incorrect.

There is no light side per se (the films never mention such a thing), only the Force in its natural state. In that state it is balanced, and there isn't really a light side that needs to be equalized by dark. The dark side is a corruption of the Force, and tips the Force out of its natural state. The presence of the Sith (and so the dark side) meant that the Force was out of balance, and the prophecy was to destroy the Sith, and thus bring the Force back into balance.

If what you were saying was true, then the Force would be out of balance because there were 10,000 light side Jedi to 2 dark side Sith. Thus bringing the Force back into balance would be killing all but, give or take, 2 Jedi (which ironically happened anyway), or eliminating both sides altogether.

What would the Jedi want to do in this situation? Of course they would do everything in their power to prevent the prophecy from coming true, since it would mean the Order's destruction. And yet we see the Jedi break several of their rules to train him because he is the Chosen One and to help the prophecy to come true. That would be the last thing they would do if what you are saying was correct.

And how could such a prophecy bring balance to the Force and destroy the Sith? If it was an issue of numbers, the Jedi are the ones that are tipping the balance, not the Sith. Destruction of the Sith would make the imbalance worse, not better, and so the prophecy would be conflicting itself.

Anakin fulfills the prophecy only at the end when he destroys the emperor and is redeemed, thus destroying the Sith once and for all. Again, if what you are saying was true, to fulfill the prophecy he would presumably have had to kill Luke (and Liea too I guess) as well before he died, leaving no light or dark side beings at all.

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Old 02-03-2006, 01:39 PM   #22
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But the prophecy isn't saying that, which is why what you are saying is incorrect.

There is no light side per se (the films never mention such a thing), QUOTE]


no the films don't but this is an EU forum and the light side and dark side are explained in full detail in 'I , JEDI'..................... you said the dark side is a corruption of the force which is an opinion of the jedi the force itself never laid down guide lines on how it was to be used like i said before the jedi use the terms light and dark as a simple understanding when really there are no sides so i guess in the end this whole thread is a misconception in terms


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Old 02-03-2006, 02:07 PM   #23
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I think it takes longer to master the light side, than the dark side. Since the dark side puts an emphasis on passion for their strength, they can achieve much more in a shorter period of time because basically, they have no restrictions.

Light side users have a certain moral code to adhere to. Possibly why Yoda was such a strong light side user is because his species is long lived, therefore he had alot of time to study up on the light side and become very powerful. Although, a light sider technically isn't after power - they are after after enlightenment.

To the casual observer the dark side does seem to be more powerful, in fact we are almost led to believe the dark side is more powerful. However I think it is much more interesting to see a light sider in control of his emotions, than having a dark sider running amok.

A light side master can counter dark side master, and vice versa. Then it is up to fate to decide the victor really, or who has the more experience, or who thinks more tactfully than the other. Yoda and Sidious were pretty much at a stalemate, if Yoda hadn't fallen I'm sure Sidious would've found a way to retreat - since neither were really going to win that battle. I think that was pretty obvious to both of them, if anything they may have destroyed each other in the process... I'm sure Yoda would've been fine with that, since the Emperor would've been destroyed, I don't think that would've been an acceptable outcome for the Emperor because he had way too much to lose at that point.


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Old 02-03-2006, 03:08 PM   #24
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dark side is stronger, discussion closed.
seriously though, if GL himself said it then it HAS to be true.


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Old 02-03-2006, 03:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus

A light side master can counter dark side master, and vice versa. Then it is up to fate to decide the victor really.

so you agree, like i said before, the sides are equal and its down to experience and skill.


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Old 02-03-2006, 05:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
no the films don't but this is an EU forum
Touche.

But surely you will agree that the films and related comments by the creator are relevant even when discussing the EU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
you said the dark side is a corruption of the force which is an opinion of the jedi
It is not an "opinion" of the Jedi, they just recognize the fact that the dark side is a corruption of the force. For example the ROTJ novelization explains that Sith lightning is a dark side power and a corruption of the Force, as in not natural. Palpatine even aludes to the fact that the dark side is unnatural (i.e. a corruption) in ROTS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
the force itself never laid down guide lines on how it was to be used like i said
The Force itself hasn't, since it can't talk. But the creator has. Lucas has explained that Force lightning in fact requires the use of the dark side, and as of ROTJ lightning is completely the domain of the Sith (in fact, until Dooku used it on Anakin, the Jedi did not know of it [AOTC novelization]). We also know that use of the dark side requires emotions such as anger, hate, and aggression. We also know that use of these feelings go against the Jedi code. A Jedi who would continue to use such emotions and go against the Code would cease to be a Jedi. We also have been told that continued use of such emotions and the dark side will lead to that person's undoing, as we have seen time and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
before the jedi use the terms light and dark as a simple understanding when really there are no sides
Not according to the creator of Star Wars. And I think he has the final say.

Besides, if there are no sides, how can it be out of balance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaster
so you agree, like i said before, the sides are equal and its down to experience and skill.
We've already shown that this is not the case. In terms of actual abilities to has been explicitly stated that the dark side is stronger. In other words, if two otherwise identical beings used opposite sides of the Force, the one using the dark side would be stronger.

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Old 02-03-2006, 07:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Touche.

But surely you will agree that the films and related comments by the creator are relevant even when discussing the EU?

of course

Not according to the creator of Star Wars. And I think he has the final say.

.

yes touche but he says in the interview that the dark side is stronger however you can't destroy the dark side it isn't a mortal thing same with the light side so in the end even if the dark side is stronger there will always be two sides so if you really think about it stregnth doesn't really matter it does between jedi and sith but between the force itself theres no need they're both immortal .


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Old 02-03-2006, 11:14 PM   #28
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Like mentioned earlier Lucas has said the dark side is more powerfull but it has its limits. Let me explain by an example. If you read Dark Rendez-vous Yoda challanges Dooku to turn him to the dark side. The following occurs:

Dooku: With the dark side you can have everything you want.
Yoda (holding out a rose): Good, I want this.
Dooku: No, you could have power...
Yoda: I don't want power I want this...
(note: these are not the exact lines, I quote from memory of a translated version)

So the dark side gives power which translates into worldly power, power to manipulate, dominate or destroy. The dark side does not create life, it manipulates it as seen in ancient Sith alchemy. Even in ROTS Palpatine's says that Darth Plagious manipulated the midichlorians to create life. This is a nice reference to the old Earth Alchemy of trying to change lead into gold.

George Lucas has stated on the RotS dvd in the "The Chosen One" featurette that Anakin indeed brings balance to the Force at the end of RotJ by killing Palpatine and destroying the Sith. (so it's not about numrical balance) Off course post RotJ material has Jedi falling to the dark side. Why? I think like in analogy with a cancer defeated, a small part remains but is contained but potentally dangerous. Or compair it to the Lord of the Rings, also a modern day myth, it has a similar ending; The Great Evil is destoyed, but all evil will never be destroyed...

Pfff this is getting very metaphysical for this time...
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Old 02-05-2006, 01:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palpatine_dc
Like mentioned earlier Lucas has said the dark side is more powerfull but it has its limits. Let me explain by an example. If you read Dark Rendez-vous Yoda challanges Dooku to turn him to the dark side. The following occurs:

Dooku: With the dark side you can have everything you want.
Yoda (holding out a rose): Good, I want this.
Dooku: No, you could have power...
Yoda: I don't want power I want this...
(note: these are not the exact lines, I quote from memory of a translated version)
MAN! I have heard so much about that book... maybe I should read it. I find Count Dooku's fall just as tragic as Anakin's despite his advanced age.
On topic, I like the theory brought about in the New Jedi Order series of books and to a lesser extent by Palpatine (yes, DARTH SIDIOUS!). It dictates that the Force is neither good or evil, light or dark but merely determined by how it is used or is intended to be used. The Jedi Order of the prequels where stogy and too conservative to realise this and that is why they failed to defeat the Sith. Only through a rebirth of the Jedi was the Sith finally defeated (at least for the time being).
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Old 02-12-2006, 04:01 PM   #30
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seriously the book is awesome!

what yoda implies by those lines and what he says later is :my force created by life it is (again quoted from memory) but dooku can't understand the concept


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Old 02-14-2006, 07:41 PM   #31
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According to Yoda, the Dark Side is not stronger, only quicker, easier and more seductive.

According to Lucas, the Dark Side is stronger, because it lets Sideous overshadow the power of the Jedi to weaken them with the "shroud of the Dark Side" and be undetectable in the Jedi's midst for over a decade.

You could interpret Lucas's statements that the power of the Dark Side in relation to the non-DarkSide of the Force waxes and wanes over time. Perhaps at certain times in history it seems stronger, other times not. Or you could just take it at face value as an absolute statement and say that Yoda was simply wrong, or lying to Luke so as not to discourage him too much.

Another view is that the Force is so powerful and all encompassing that the entire Prophecy thing being fulfilled was to flush out the Dark Side in order to wipe it out. Sort of like giving the Devil the impression that he's winning in order to set a trap to defeat him for good in the end.


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Old 02-16-2006, 02:58 PM   #32
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Or you could just take it at face value as an absolute statement and say that Yoda was simply wrong, or lying to Luke so as not to discourage him too much.
I think it is more the fact that Yoda knows the downside to using the dark side, and that offsets the powers it provides. So overall it isn't more powerful because it harms as well as "helps." But no doubt he is trying to limit Luke's curiosity.

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Old 02-20-2006, 08:19 AM   #33
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'right and wrong good and evil light and dark are just words that prevent us from seeing the bigger picture....we see that the "light" and "dark" force springs from the same well inside us' - luke skywalker


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Old 02-20-2006, 03:11 PM   #34
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if that is from the NJO, he has since moved away from that view in DN.

And Palpatine said a lot of similar things.

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Old 02-20-2006, 03:18 PM   #35
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its from 'joiner king' and yoda said alot of similar things too


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Old 02-20-2006, 03:29 PM   #36
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its from 'joiner king'
He's having a lot of doubts by the end of the trilogy. We'll see what Legacy brings...

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Old 02-26-2006, 04:30 PM   #37
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Surely there is no victor, obviously this discredits what has been stated by Lucas, but I thought the force did not dictate strength, but the person did. Surely there disposition is the reason for their strength and will, not their accredited side.

Anyways, I suppose GL has shredded my hopes on that...again...


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Old 08-15-2014, 06:07 AM   #38
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if you look at the movies the dark side takes the whole Jedi council with members, blinding the whole Jedi order in their conquest. also palpitine continues to live on multiple bodies after the movies turning Luke to the dark side briefly. although Luke does rebuild the Jedi order the dark side does seem stronger and definitely more bad ass.
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:40 AM   #39
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The darkside is stronger because there is always the temptation of power & greed it runs in the blood of anyone who's ancestors once turned plus it also leads to their demise the lightside is a conflict of staying in a life of peace not engaging in any wars but it is also sad they need to not to bad things or have corrupt thoughts the lightside is a short time period is someone's life the rest is a test.


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Old 08-17-2014, 09:17 AM   #40
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The darkside is stronger
Per the movies, it isn't.



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