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Old 03-14-2006, 05:51 AM   #1
MistenTH
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Game Tactics, Lacking?

Yo guys, I'd like some comments and info here. From the default EAW to mods (including my own), Space combat seems to be lacking in tactics. While having a pop cap limit of 50, 100, 500 for epic battles is cool, but you don't actually do much, or make critical decisions that make or break a game.

As far as I can see, it's all about directing as much firepower along the front as you can. No decisions about when to use what special abilities, no flanking, no hit and runs, no retreats, no use of layered ranged units.

What do you guys think?

Personally I do feel tactical space play is lacking, and when I have the time I'm thinking of developing a gameplay mod to work on this aspect. I already have the rough game design planned. Smaller numbers of ships, not more. More long-lasting fighters. Where flanking and retreating are viable tactics. Where getting close-in and dirty is dangerous - but the most rewarding. Where long range mass fire isn't as effective as it is now.

I may not follow Canon strictly in this case. The main objective of this mod would be to create unique roles for various ships, meaning that proper use of ranges, special abilities and positioning would lead to victory. With fewer ships in this mix, you would care more as well for each individual capital ship.

Comments, suggestions, ideas?


EAW: Star Wars Realism v3.0 - a mod that improves the realism, balance & gameplay from the default EAW Space Combat & Space Skirmish. Introduces a FLEET! Deathmatch mode.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=2763.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161089

EAW: Tactical Command - a Space Skirmish mod that seeks to bring tactics to EAW. Also introduces Scenario play.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3136.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=162569

Last edited by MistenTH; 03-14-2006 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:02 AM   #2
†Saint_Killa†
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I guess but I actually used some strategy not by movement but by units. My strategy is anti fighter corvettes and cap ships and then use bombers in adv. to take out the space station and I win!!!!!

Land battles also, example im outnumbered 5 companies of T-4B's with 3 infantry companies and one AT-AT and Ditto BUILD PADS!! build magnapulse cannon (to prevent T-4B's ramming your infantry) find a bottle neck place with a build pad and build repair and kolto tank pads if two ad voila!!! I win!!!! I think this should be potsed somewhere else but im just showing you my point that there is tiny bit of strategy in E@W.

But looking forward to this!!!

I suggest a more harder AI more pop cap.



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Old 03-14-2006, 12:55 PM   #3
stingerhs
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^^^^
you're not understanding the difference between tactics and strategy.

from Answers.com:
  • strategy: The science and art of military command as applied to the overall planning and conduct of large-scale combat operations.
  • tactics: The military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy

whenever you refer to strategy, you're referring to the overall battleplan you've developed before you actually engage in the battle. tactics are the actual manuevers, attacks, defenses, etc you organize during the battle.

now, in the sense that MistenTH suggested, that would give you much more tactical options during a battle. as the vanilla game is, you really just match up counters and let them duke it out. sometimes you can use distractions from different directions, but otherwise, combat is pretty basic. things like flank attacks, attacking armour from the rear, etc have no effect which limits the tactical options you have on the battlefield. i would definately support a mod that introduced tactical elements such as these, but i'm not sure if its possible without the source code since a lot of those elements would have to be coded into the game.


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Old 03-14-2006, 01:20 PM   #4
MistenTH
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Yep, all those can't be touched for now. But using minimum ranges, specific target sets, staggered ranges, higher shield regen and some limited shield-bypass weaponry could simulate that. Right now it's just too easy to just sit in place and pound ships to death from afar.


EAW: Star Wars Realism v3.0 - a mod that improves the realism, balance & gameplay from the default EAW Space Combat & Space Skirmish. Introduces a FLEET! Deathmatch mode.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=2763.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161089

EAW: Tactical Command - a Space Skirmish mod that seeks to bring tactics to EAW. Also introduces Scenario play.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3136.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=162569
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Old 03-14-2006, 04:59 PM   #5
My Names Dan
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I think there is plenty of strategy involved. I find it easy to beat anyone who's strategy consists of "more firepower on the frontline." I tend to get creative in how I play. For example, I may use a bomber rush or Star Destroyer rush as a decoy for my broadside cruisers. The average person immediately goes after the closest threat. However, by them time the Star Destroyers are taken care of they've lost their space station.

Also you could send a small force to the "frontline" and send a main force around the back less noticeable path to assault the space station.

It is not always about dropping more ships and more firewpower in the obvious place. If a battle is stuck in the middle of the map, send units around the side and assault your opponents base. It just takes a little creativity in my opinion.
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Old 03-14-2006, 05:11 PM   #6
EAWFAN
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my and sithman are thinkin of makin a mod together we will try to add more tactics to it and less brute force. when the maping tools come out i will make maps that make you use starategy ie: lots of astroids and can only spawn at base so there is only a few options take you ships thru astroids and suffer terrible loss but not be noticed or go thru a path with astroids on each side that is very noticable to the enemy and impossible to manuver in. this way u distract em in the path and send fighters in the astroids. just a thought




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Old 03-18-2006, 05:25 AM   #7
MistenTH
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Managed to get much done, just need to finish up ships and scenarios. I'll be opening a new thread once it's ready, but here's the main features.

-Ships with short range / medium range / long range weaponry
-Ships have multiple hardpoints (ISD has 18 weapon hardpoints)
-All ships have 2 abilities (but no Shield Regen, it's either too strong or weak)
-All Fighters launch immediately
-Increased base shield regen and hull strength, longer battles.
-Cap ships kill fighters very slowly, same for the other way round.
-Certain heavy weapons, when barraged, have limited shield penetration.
-Scenario play: You start with everything, no reinforcements.
-Special Abilities work in Nebulas

It'll be a skirmish only mod since only these maps are big enough. The Scenario play should be very interesting. I'll make a standard skirmish mode as well.


EAW: Star Wars Realism v3.0 - a mod that improves the realism, balance & gameplay from the default EAW Space Combat & Space Skirmish. Introduces a FLEET! Deathmatch mode.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=2763.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161089

EAW: Tactical Command - a Space Skirmish mod that seeks to bring tactics to EAW. Also introduces Scenario play.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3136.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=162569
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:17 AM   #8
Hammer22
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I'd say one key thing you should do is make capital ships much slower at turning, that way you can send you ships behind them were they can't be hit; thus making flanking viable
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:06 AM   #9
MistenTH
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All the capital ships other than the big ones have engine boosters (but not too fast), so they can keep behind the bigger ships and pound them. Had a great experience with that, hope to share it soon

One concern for me now though is that the ISD's tractor beam, once useless, is now dastardly useful in my mod. Slow down the ship, it can't escape, smash it to bits. Rinse and repeat. Hmm...


EAW: Star Wars Realism v3.0 - a mod that improves the realism, balance & gameplay from the default EAW Space Combat & Space Skirmish. Introduces a FLEET! Deathmatch mode.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=2763.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161089

EAW: Tactical Command - a Space Skirmish mod that seeks to bring tactics to EAW. Also introduces Scenario play.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3136.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=162569
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Old 03-18-2006, 03:19 PM   #10
Slocket
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**Smaller numbers of ships, not more. More long-lasting fighters. Where flanking and retreating are viable tactics. Where getting close-in and dirty is dangerous - but the most rewarding. Where long range mass fire isn't as effective as it is now.
***

I agree. Lower unit amounts require more tatics to win.

I wish we can get the LUA editor to change the AI behaviour to make it more custom. When we change XML stuff, the AI does not always understand it. Plus I think we can make it smarter without resorting to letting the AI cheat for a challenge.

We have the time to test this, the devs did not. We can do wonders with the scripts if they let us work with them. The Ai is just not that smart, odd in its building fleets and offense/defense tactics.

Last edited by Slocket; 03-19-2006 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:45 PM   #11
MistenTH
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Deleted due to strange edit = new reply.


EAW: Star Wars Realism v3.0 - a mod that improves the realism, balance & gameplay from the default EAW Space Combat & Space Skirmish. Introduces a FLEET! Deathmatch mode.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=2763.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161089

EAW: Tactical Command - a Space Skirmish mod that seeks to bring tactics to EAW. Also introduces Scenario play.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3136.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=162569
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:46 PM   #12
MistenTH
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Here's sort of what I'm aiming for. A bit hard to capture the amount of firepower that's going on between them due to refire rates, but you can notice that there are more turbolasers firing. There's more, but kinda hard to capture it.

Well, this one looks pretty, shows more guns firing (but the retarded IA isn't firing at the nearby threats) and you can see fighters buzzing around. No reinforcements, and this was about 5 minutes of combat.


Another broadside attack picture.


EAW: Star Wars Realism v3.0 - a mod that improves the realism, balance & gameplay from the default EAW Space Combat & Space Skirmish. Introduces a FLEET! Deathmatch mode.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=2763.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161089

EAW: Tactical Command - a Space Skirmish mod that seeks to bring tactics to EAW. Also introduces Scenario play.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3136.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=162569
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:47 PM   #13
MistenTH
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Deleted due to edit = new reply.


EAW: Star Wars Realism v3.0 - a mod that improves the realism, balance & gameplay from the default EAW Space Combat & Space Skirmish. Introduces a FLEET! Deathmatch mode.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=2763.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161089

EAW: Tactical Command - a Space Skirmish mod that seeks to bring tactics to EAW. Also introduces Scenario play.

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3136.0
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=162569
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