lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Disloyal clones?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 04-24-2006, 05:23 PM   #1
swphreak
My cabbages!!!
 
swphreak's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,510
10 year veteran! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
Disloyal clones?

I've recently picked up a copy of the new Republic Commando novel, and I'm about half-way through it so far. There are a lot of parts where we see clones (mostly Null ARCs and Omega Squad) hesitating/disobeying orders from superior officers [and only listening to Skirata).

Now I'm wondering, what do you think those clones did when they recieved Order 66?

I can very easily believe that the Null ARCs would tell the Emperor to go shove it. The Republic Commandos, I can see some hesitating, or certain RCs to outright disobey completely.

Opinions?


Any nonsense about EU contradictions/sucking/ect that is not of relevance to this topic will be deleted, and if I don't like you, worse.
swphreak is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-24-2006, 06:01 PM   #2
Foshjedi2004
Junior Member
 
Foshjedi2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buckinghamshire, England
Posts: 478
How do you think some of the Jedi Escaped and Survived??



My Personal Opinions are not Endorsed by Any Websites, persons or places.
Check out my Gallery
[/color]
Foshjedi2004 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-24-2006, 06:22 PM   #3
Samnmax221
I never Kipled
 
Samnmax221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: My hovercraft is full of eels
Posts: 5,784
Current Game: Sex with women
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
ARCS were allowed to be more independent, making your own decisions is crucial with the kind of work they do
Samnmax221 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-24-2006, 07:13 PM   #4
MachineCult
Vincit Amor Patria
 
MachineCult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Disneyland?
Posts: 2,657
Theres no evidence of the Clone Commanders failing to execute order 66, only evidence of them not doing a very good job of it.

Not sure if it's true but according to wiki, the ARC trooper Alpha went rogue and then had something to do with the Mandalorians.



"For where ever there is a n00b, there is MachineCult to make him cry and cringe."
- Halo_92

MachineCult is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-24-2006, 08:17 PM   #5
swphreak
My cabbages!!!
 
swphreak's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,510
10 year veteran! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
Clone Commanders are not ARCs or Republic Commandos, they are Clone Troopers with command training.

ARC have independence, but are still loyal and obedient. "Null" ARCs, like Ordo, are clearly loyal only to Kal Skirata, so unless Kal told them to execute Order 66, I doubt they did it.

I'm not so sure about the Commandos though, I can see Delta squad executing Order 66 easily, but Darman of Omega squad might hesistate.
swphreak is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-24-2006, 11:10 PM   #6
eastcoast2895
 
eastcoast2895's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 388
granted this is from the star wars wikipedia site and is formulated by fans like us, but
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_trooper_commander
according to the site, and my personal understanding, clone commanders were given similar training as arc troopers and they too have the more (although not complete) independent thinking. the wikipedia article also says that ARC troopers were the ones who trained commanders to be independent thinkers. I also think the fact that clone commanders have names, like bly and cody, show that they do have some indepedent thinking and not just commander training. although the indepedent thinking may just extend to ways they think about combat tactical situations.


do or do not there is no try - yoda
eastcoast2895 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-24-2006, 11:26 PM   #7
Shok_Tinoktin
Ray's Gun Nut
 
Shok_Tinoktin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The good end of Ray's Gun, or the bad end of an AA gun
Posts: 1,144
I don't think its just so straightforward if they care or not about orders. I think circumstance would play a huge part in any decision process. That said:

Delta Squad: Without hesitation I believe they would obey in almost any situation. I can see no reason they wouldn't.

Null ARCs: If Kal wasn't around when the orders come in, I doubt they would just ignore them. Most likely, considering that they don't like the Jedi too much anyway and the fact that they understand that Jedi traitors could only be stopped immediately and without warning, they would not hesitate to destroy the Jedi if Order 66 came in. Now if Kal was there, they would look to him for advise, and the final decision.

Kal Skirata: For most of the same reasons as the Null ARCs, I think Kal would uphold Order 66, unless he knew more about the true reason for it then most of the clones did (i.e. its all part of Palpy's plan, not actual Jedi treachery).

Darman: I don't think he would just trust Order 66 and kill Etain, without at least giving her a chance to explain herself. The only exception is if he recently found out Etain's little secret, and felt betrayed by her already.

Rest of Omega Squad: I think they would be less understanding. It could actually be an interesting storyline if they Order 66 Etain and Darman doesn't. I don't really think they trust Etain or the Jedi enough to take the chance.

Bardan: An exception to the above. I don't think any of these people (Delta Squad excepted) think of Bardan as a Jedi, so I don't think they would kill him. In fact, I don't think he even considers himself a Jedi. I think his faith in the Jedi is shaken enough that he might believe the Jedi have betrayed the Republic, and join in the Order 66ing himself. I could see him becoming an agent of Palpatine in the near future.

Hopefully we will get a couple more RC books in the future, and we can get better answers than just our guesses.


Yeah, you'd think the Emperor had come back to life or something.
Shok_Tinoktin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 03:11 AM   #8
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
I don't think they disobeyed orders, I think they dutifully obeyed. If ANY order had to be carried out without hestitation, it was this one, I think Palpy would have made sure of that.

Anyway, the EU writers (and clone fanboys) want the elite troopers to have disobeyed their orders so that we can have stories (and fan fics!) about clones that helped the good guys, went off on their own adventures (since each one is like a potential Boba Fett, the ultimate Star Wars fanboy wet dream character, right?), etc. Just like how they want Jedi to survive as story fodder and fantasies, etc.

I frankly don't care. I think it makes the story just as interesting if all these guys just acted like drones and killed the Jedi like they were supposed to, and the only ones to survive were the ones who got lucky. Yeah it sucks that they were able to kill Jedi at all, but the plot forces you to accept that, and once that is a given it's silly to think it didn't work.

Anyway, the supposedly elite Clone Commandos in Republic Commando balked at not being allowed to save their brother, and yet they obeyed that order. So what makes one think they would not obey the order to kill some person they have less attachment too that they are now being told directly by their Commander in Chief is a traitor that must be killed?

And I claim Executive Privilege in this thread. Ha!


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 10:07 AM   #9
Elukka
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 74
Quote:
Anyway, the supposedly elite Clone Commandos in Republic Commando balked at not being allowed to save their brother, and yet they obeyed that order. So what makes one think they would not obey the order to kill some person they have less attachment too that they are now being told directly by their Commander in Chief is a traitor that must be killed?
Because they know who the jedi are. They know they are/were their allies and peacekeepers. They would probably obey, anyways, though.
Elukka is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 11:37 AM   #10
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Dark Lord Spoilers ahead!


spoiler:
Some clone commandos question the order in Dark Lord and let some jedi escape but they tell the jedi if they see them again they will attack them anyway vader later finds out about this and kills the commandos


Darth_Terros is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 04:01 PM   #11
swphreak
My cabbages!!!
 
swphreak's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,510
10 year veteran! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
The RCs in Republic Commando the video game are Delta Squad, which I believe would probably follow Order 66 in a heartbeat.

I disagree on the Null ARCs. If Kal wasn't around, I can see them ignoring the order, seeing as how they only take orders from Kal.

Also, there's no way to know if any Null ARCs or RCs are still alive in EpIII, the latest book is up to over a year after Geonosis.
swphreak is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 05:51 PM   #12
MachineCult
Vincit Amor Patria
 
MachineCult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Disneyland?
Posts: 2,657
Just to clarify, who are you refering to when you say Null ARCs?



"For where ever there is a n00b, there is MachineCult to make him cry and cringe."
- Halo_92

MachineCult is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 06:20 PM   #13
Shok_Tinoktin
Ray's Gun Nut
 
Shok_Tinoktin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The good end of Ray's Gun, or the bad end of an AA gun
Posts: 1,144
The Null ARCs were the first batch of ARC troopers created by the Kaminoans, and it was an experiment in which they tried to improve on the DNA of Jango. Only 12 were created, and only half those survived. The Kaminoans considered them incapable of being good soldiers, and wanted to kill them. Kal Skirata stood up for them and trained them himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarWarsPhreak
I disagree on the Null ARCs. If Kal wasn't around, I can see them ignoring the order, seeing as how they only take orders from Kal.
IIRC, there are instances in RC:TZ where the Null ARCs act without directly consulting with Kal. They can still make decisions on their own. The fact that they take orders only from Kal just means that only Kal's orders supercede their own judgement. If a Null ARC believes the Jedi to be traitors, I can see them killing them to protect their own lives, without questioning them first, and giving them a chance to defend themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarWarsPhreak
Also, there's no way to know if any Null ARCs or RCs are still alive in EpIII, the latest book is up to over a year after Geonosis.
I believe Traviss said in an interview somewhere that she decided how the Omegas would react during Order 66 when she was writing Hard Contact, so presumably they at least survive that long.


Yeah, you'd think the Emperor had come back to life or something.
Shok_Tinoktin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2006, 01:20 PM   #14
Astrotoy7
A Face from The Past
 
Astrotoy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,284
Notable contributor Helpful! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member 
I dunno... Genetic and Psychological conditioning would be a pretty hard thing to overcome. There are real life cases of elite soldiers that were conditioned with activation words/images to make them complete a certain task. I'd say order 66 is one of those things. Its just hard-wired into them, like my salivating reaction to pizza lolz

mtfbwya


Asinus asinum fricat
Astrotoy7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2006, 04:06 PM   #15
Prime
Am I a truck or robot?
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,352
Current Game: Skyrim, Macross PS2
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
The regular clones all had Jedi commanders, did they not? Whereas the ARCs and commandos operated independently? I'd say even if the latter groups would ignore the order, it probably didn't matter anyway.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2006, 07:13 PM   #16
PoiuyWired
Unregistered User
 
PoiuyWired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,503
Well, as we know it many of them ignore order 66, or fail to acomplish their order (well its a jedi afterall)

But the majority of them seem to finish their job wasteing those jedi scums.

Too bad the cute ones have to go too, like Secura . x.x
PoiuyWired is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Star Wars > Expanded Universe > Disloyal clones?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:57 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.