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View Poll Results: Is the Star Wars RTS Licence safe with Petroglyph?
Yes! I want more more more 27 55.10%
Maybe, lets see other projects first 19 38.78%
pah! NOOOO!! reminds me of Episode I 3 6.12%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Poll May 1st - 7th May
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:42 AM   #1
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Poll May 1st - 7th May

This week, we are asking, should the Star Wars RTS licence stay with Petroglyph for future development?

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Old 05-02-2006, 06:57 AM   #2
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I would go with 'maybe'. EaW is a good game, but it contained a lot of bugs and glitches that really should never have gotten past QA and Beta testing, and we all know the complaints about the content that was left out.

Having said that, it was their first game and on the whole it is pretty good, so I'm going to reserve my judgement for now.


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Old 05-02-2006, 11:23 AM   #3
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I would go with 'maybe'. EaW is a good game, but it contained a lot of bugs and glitches that really should never have gotten past QA and Beta testing, and we all know the complaints about the content that was left out.

Having said that, it was their first game and on the whole it is pretty good, so I'm going to reserve my judgement for now.

Not gonna vote, My reasons are the same as above. This game could have been so MUCH better but as it stands it's still a good game for a 1st attempt.


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Old 05-02-2006, 11:50 AM   #4
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I have mixed feelings because I know the excellent work these guys have done in the past, but it seems like they made some poor choices with this one. I'm not sure if that was Petroglyph's fault, or due to the wishes of LA, or both. After playing games like Civ4, GalCiv2, and Rome:TW, I just feel like a large part of EaW was left out in an attempt to over-simplify it. Kinda like episode I, when they tried to make it appeal to a younger crowd by adding Jar-Jar Binks as comic relief. In the end, the bulk of the fan base shunned episode I, and I think I've seen much of the same kind of comments about EaW. So, if Petroglyph intends to make kiddie games that would be better suited for consoles, then I say TAKE AWAY THE LICENSE. On the other hand, if the x-pack, or sequel to EaW can make the game what it could have been in the first place, then I'll support Petro. I say we wait and see more than just thier first game. I DO like the way Petro has been so active with the community.


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Old 05-02-2006, 01:26 PM   #5
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Maybe...let's see more!


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Old 05-02-2006, 05:04 PM   #6
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Like Windu said, for a first game, it's good.

But for a RTS game, it's average, in my opinion. Way too shallow. And besides what people may say, you don't have to be a real geek to enjoy a complex game.

But then, is the SW liscence safe with anyone? I'm not sure. Big developpers prefer to have their own franchise (think about BioWare who starts with their own projects, like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. No more DnD). Once Petro will be well-established, they might not want to work with SW content again. Unless I'm wrong (and I am pretty sure that I am not), SW games don't really sell better than others. In fact, because of past failures, they might sell even less.


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Old 05-02-2006, 10:15 PM   #7
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Unless I'm wrong (and I am pretty sure that I am not), SW games don't really sell better than others. In fact, because of past failures, they might sell even less.
And you're not wrong either. The only thing that makes Star Wars survive is the fact that it's Star Wars. I don't they sell any less because of past failures. The advantage they have is an established franchise as opposed to new ones that need to create a fanbase. Star Wars games will always have fans.

I voted maybe, I'd like to see more but I think Petroglyph has done a decent job with E@W. Yes, it's simplistic and some more "hardcore" RTS players have not been happy. As true as this is, I don't think having a more complex game is the way of the future. Does that mean that they will make kiddy games? I don't think so. Elitists will always make this claim, but is it true? Is an Unreal Tournament player more "kiddy" then a Rainbow Six (except for Lockdown) player?
Both will have different skills in different departments. I think it's the same with E@W and the other RTS.


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Old 05-03-2006, 05:38 PM   #8
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Guys, you have got to start somewhere, I am happy with what we got (it could have been like WW2OL which din't even work at release or SW Galx that was really bad) This game had no more bugs at the start than any other new game thats been launched. I just hope they take it farther, not backwards.


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Old 05-03-2006, 07:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I voted maybe, I'd like to see more but I think Petroglyph has done a decent job with E@W. Yes, it's simplistic and some more "hardcore" RTS players have not been happy. As true as this is, I don't think having a more complex game is the way of the future. Does that mean that they will make kiddy games? I don't think so. Elitists will always make this claim, but is it true? Is an Unreal Tournament player more "kiddy" then a Rainbow Six (except for Lockdown) player?
Both will have different skills in different departments. I think it's the same with E@W and the other RTS.
This message is not intended exclusively for Luke, I'm just starting from here

I think there is a "happy middle" to aim for. I haven't played any of the UT, but I can understand your example by comparing GoldenEye to RS. RS has more brains. Nobody can deny that. GoldenEye is one of the best selling games for the N64 though, because anyone can play and enjoy it, which is not the case with RS.

However, these are shooters, not RTSs. Feel free to disagree, but I think that shooters are simple games. At least simpler than RTSs and RPGs. In WarCraft III, you have to use your hero(s) to the best of his or her abilities, learn how and when to use which units and micro the hell out of everything. In Guild Wars, you have to determine which skills you are going to put in your bar. In Halo, you gun stuff.

Shooters naturally appear to a much broader audience. Adult or child (as if anyone cares for the ESRB ratings), you can find some fun in a shooter. That's why Halo sold that well. I think it did anyway (they even spoke about it at the 6 PM news at TVA with Pierre Bruneau! (Quebec pun)).

For a strategy game, people are expecting more. Just take a general gamer's point of view. Why in the nine hells would I play Empire at War if I can play Rome:TW? Like you said, there will always be SW fans. The problem is this : EaW's *only* advantage is the SW licence. And that's only an advantage for us, SW fans. Others don't necessarily care. And it's probably a disadvantage for some people.

Of course, SW games will survive for quite some time because it's Star Wars. But for how long? The movies are over. And who knows what the TV project will look like? George could just ruin what's left of Star Wars. And a TV series is not as good as a movie, as far as marketing is concerned. I consider myself a great SW fan, but I never saw a Clone Wars episode. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

All this to say that liscence is not everything. What's the next step? Battlefront III that will include a mix of BF1 and BF2 maps and add Ewoks and Gungans as a playable side? Star Wars : Gungan Sub Racing? LucasArts Learning : Looking Creepy with Palpy?

It can't go on forever. If they don't produce anything really good (with new, unique features), SW games will not survive.

Oh, and time to change your avatar Luke

As a side note, am I the only one who always experiences crashes with IE whenever I post replies of more than 5 lines? I'm off to dl firefox to see if it's really better.


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Old 05-03-2006, 08:27 PM   #10
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Dont get me wrong, EaW is a good first game for a newly formed company. My only problem is as long as petro has the Star Wars RTS license it's going to be simplistic game that doesnt have much depth. I really want something with a lot more depth than EaW had.

I would rather have something with more depth, or have anouther company make it. I understand it's marketing to a wider audiance, but it definetely isnt marketing to hardcore Star Wars fans as much as the general RTS crowd.


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Old 05-03-2006, 10:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
However, these are shooters, not RTSs. Feel free to disagree, but I think that shooters are simple games. At least simpler than RTSs and RPGs. In WarCraft III, you have to use your hero(s) to the best of his or her abilities, learn how and when to use which units and micro the hell out of everything. In Guild Wars, you have to determine which skills you are going to put in your bar. In Halo, you gun stuff.
Yeah, I'm going to naturally disagree In the case of RS, you actually have to plan your every move before you jump into the action. You can't just run and gun (unless you're insanely good) and expect to survive. That's what the mission planning is for It added quite a lot of thinking to the game. From choosing weapons to every waypoint, everything was important.
(I realize that you could load a pre-made plan in campaign mode, but that's about it).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
For a strategy game, people are expecting more. Just take a general gamer's point of view. Why in the nine hells would I play Empire at War if I can play Rome:TW? Like you said, there will always be SW fans. The problem is this : EaW's *only* advantage is the SW licence. And that's only an advantage for us, SW fans. Others don't necessarily care. And it's probably a disadvantage for some people.
I have to disagree here too. The fact is, it isn't from a general gamer's point of view. General gamers have stopped playing RTS games.
Secondly, you could add sci-fi fans or people looking for an RTS in a sci-fi setting. Granted, there is better then E@W around, but it fills quite nicely such a hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
Of course, SW games will survive for quite some time because it's Star Wars. But for how long? The movies are over. And who knows what the TV project will look like? George could just ruin what's left of Star Wars. And a TV series is not as good as a movie, as far as marketing is concerned. I consider myself a great SW fan, but I never saw a Clone Wars episode. And I'm sure I'm not alone.
Hmmm...it could last longer then you think. We still live and breathe
Seriously, there is quite some life left into the licence and eventually, even Star Wars games of great quality will die out. It's an inevitable fate.




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Oh, and time to change your avatar Luke
Done


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Old 05-04-2006, 03:25 AM   #12
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The most incredible thing is, that our current poll on the main page, has mostly veterans playing the game. Very odd. Unless of course, most of the newer players to the RTS genre don't go online or come here. (Well, they MUST come here ! haha) .

Personally, I would love to see a game like Rebellion again - with that level of depth and I would love Petroglyph to be the ones to make it. I still get a buzz when playing space battles, ground battles online still make me laugh as its so much fun ( I still cry with laughter when I get Chewie to capture a Tie Mauler - then BOOM!)

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Old 05-04-2006, 12:43 PM   #13
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The BESt thing that could ever happen to EaW, would be to make the Space skirmishes fully 3d like the Homeworld Series. Make the Conquest mode way more diplomatic and more indepth, and the land battles more like C&C as in you can build buildings and place them where you need them.

The game is fine now but as everyone will say, it could be so much better. I, personally was starting to tire of the games 'automatic' feel - Most of the actions ingame just felt like they were playing out rather than you doing the playing but recently I've turned into an EaW maniac. This game truly Shines when you get involved in clan battles and fighting for bragging rights. It's all about sifting through the things that make this game mediocre and finding the things that do actually work.

Though... at this stage in the lifespan of EaW, Petro could do worse than to listen to 'hardcore' gamers, as the wider audience will, no doubt, shrunk now to those who hope for more options to come.


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Old 05-04-2006, 12:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Apocalypse|TFL
The BESt thing that could ever happen to EaW, would be to make the Space skirmishes fully 3d like the Homeworld Series. Make the Conquest mode way more diplomatic and more indepth, and the land battles more like C&C as in you can build buildings and place them where you need them.
the space battle would be welcome, but the current way is just pefect for simplisity. the conquest mode is also perfect, may be you are a Civ fan, i don't know, but for average RTS player, moving units around is enough. the CnC styled gameplay would be welcomed though
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by wuyanxu
the space battle would be welcome, but the current way is just pefect for simplisity. the conquest mode is also perfect, may be you are a Civ fan, i don't know, but for average RTS player, moving units around is enough. the CnC styled gameplay would be welcomed though

Fair comment. It's just as it stands, the games does feel a little too automatic at times.


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Old 05-04-2006, 04:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Yeah, I'm going to naturally disagree In the case of RS, you actually have to plan your every move before you jump into the action. You can't just run and gun (unless you're insanely good) and expect to survive. That's what the mission planning is for It added quite a lot of thinking to the game. From choosing weapons to every waypoint, everything was important.
(I realize that you could load a pre-made plan in campaign mode, but that's about it).
Alright, RS is a... special case. Yup But seriously, apart from Clancy games, shooters are generally very simple. Halo, GoldenEye... even Jedi Academy was a button mashing thing. The difference was that you used a sabre instead of a machine gun. The nice "puzzle/adventure" feel of Jedi Knight 1 is gone. In fact, I'm pretty sure that consoles are responsible for all this. And as a side note, my cousin could do a lot of mission with only 2 people. He's insane

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I have to disagree here too. The fact is, it isn't from a general gamer's point of view. General gamers have stopped playing RTS games.
Secondly, you could add sci-fi fans or people looking for an RTS in a sci-fi setting. Granted, there is better then E@W around, but it fills quite nicely such a hole.
General gamers have stopped playing RTSs? Perhaps. But then, you'd have to say that the masses of people still playing StarCraft, WarCraft III and even the AoSomething games are all geeks. And trust me, you don't have to be a geek to enjoy WC3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Hmmm...it could last longer then you think. We still live and breathe
Seriously, there is quite some life left into the licence and eventually, even Star Wars games of great quality will die out. It's an inevitable fate.
Knowing Luca$Art$, I'm sure they will do whatever's possible to milk it as long as possible. And that's the smartest thing to do, from a business point of view.

And SW games of great quality *are* dying at the moment. The last great game we've had was KotOR 2. Commando? Short as a baby's thumb, not modable and horrible MP. Battlefront? Extremely shallow. And don't get me started on Bfront 2.

EaW is a fine game. But it simply does not have enough to secure a spot in the market. In the world of computer games, gameplay is king. LucasArts games (thus SW games) *never* bring something new to the genre. They copy bits of game A, mix it with a tad of game B, put SW skins and voilà! How can they hope to be popular with that? I'll say it again, the only thing that prevents SW games from falling into darkness is the fact that it's about Star Wars. But if they can't even make a revolutionary game that stands by itself (what happened to KotOR), the games *will* die eventually. And judging from the recent releases, I'm not optimistic.

Really, I think EaW is miles ahead of Age of Star Wa... sorry Galactic Battlegrounds. But after 2 months or so, EaW's forums are dead compared to SWGB back when it came out.


But then, my argumentation is quite flawed. My philosophy teacher would be disappointed. The fact is, it's more a matter of personal opinion. And frankly, I have only played EaW for about 2 weeks. And I do regret buying it now. I simply cannot understand why anyone would play this over WC or Homeworld. Or even Rebellion, for that matter.


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Old 05-04-2006, 04:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
General gamers have stopped playing RTSs? Perhaps. But then, you'd have to say that the masses of people still playing StarCraft, WarCraft III and even the AoSomething games are all geeks. And trust me, you don't have to be a geek to enjoy WC3.

You do realize that we can't count the Koreans right ?
Seriously though, it isn't as much as it used to be and the golden age of the RTS is long gone. The simple fact that it's an RTS doesn't attract people anymore.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
And SW games of great quality *are* dying at the moment. The last great game we've had was KotOR 2. Commando? Short as a baby's thumb, not modable and horrible MP. Battlefront? Extremely shallow. And don't get me started on Bfront 2.
Commando was decent and you forget Lego Star Wars Both Battlefront games were also decent. Making decent games does make you survive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
EaW is a fine game. But it simply does not have enough to secure a spot in the market. In the world of computer games, gameplay is king. LucasArts games (thus SW games) *never* bring something new to the genre. They copy bits of game A, mix it with a tad of game B, put SW skins and voilà! How can they hope to be popular with that?
*cough* Halo *cough* Hell, even Half-Life 2 was not that original (except for the awesome physics engine, but the rest was rather basic). Same goes for a lot of other games. It's very hard to stand out for any type of game.
Truth is, even KotOR is not very original. They just took existing elements and did it better then the others and you can have success with that. Assuming you do it better then the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
Really, I think EaW is miles ahead of Age of Star Wa... sorry Galactic Battlegrounds. But after 2 months or so, EaW's forums are dead compared to SWGB back when it came out.
Yeah, but the good folks are not around anymore. *sigh* Not that our current community isn't good, I just miss the old fellows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
the space battle would be welcome, but the current way is just pefect for simplisity.
It's actually perfect. Homeworld was not very accessible to the general public because of the z axis. The learning curve was atrociously high and you spent a lot of time struggling with the camera to get "the best angle".


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Old 05-04-2006, 04:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
You do realize that we can't count the Koreans right ?
Well, there are servers for Koreans. Many of them play on America, but still. Those are not *real* gosus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Seriously though, it isn't as much as it used to be and the golden age of the RTS is long gone. The simple fact that it's an RTS doesn't attract people anymore.
That's why you have to do an RPS (role-playing strategy) like WC3. Heroes with no leveling system like in EaW are, quite simply, boring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Making decent games does make you survive.
But they don't make you more popular. Which means that people will eventually forget you. Which means that you'll be alone in the cold. Which means that you'll die *insert evil laugh*

I knew I should have bought Lego...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Truth is, even KotOR is not very original. They just took existing elements and did it better then the others and you can have success with that. Assuming you do it better then the others.
There were no SW RPGs ever made, so making one was quite original in the first place. But the whole idea of the 3rd person view with the controls was new to d20 RPGs and worked perfectly with KotOR. NWN's vanilla Aurora engine would not have worked nicely.

And like you said : "Assuming you do it better then the others. " BioWare did it better than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Yeah, but the good folks are not around anymore. *sigh* Not that our current community isn't good, I just miss the old fellows.
Well, the point is that EaW did not attract the old fellows back. In fact, it did not attract many new people either.


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Old 05-07-2006, 11:25 PM   #19
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Is the Star Wars RTS Licence safe with Petroglyph?

That's the question.

Answer, yes!

I'll post something I said in another forum:

At least petroglyph designed a nice interface, very good graphics, and smooth gameplay.

Beef I have with other games (I'll pick on two):

Rise of Legends:

Graphics -- no foot prints (okay it's important to me), the shadows look all artifacted, the animations are ultra slow even with a faster computer.

Interface -- It's clunky and lacking in many features that RON had -- no pause, no halt, no formations, the list goes on. Also, you can't change the difficulty mid game anymore. So if you find the level you are on is too easy, forget just cranking it up, you gotta restart over completely -- blah.

Act of War High Treason:

Graphics -- Pretty much like ROL, lack of footprints, the animations are okay, the shadows look like they are constantly being drawn.

AI -- There is no naval AI. One of the biggest features in the game and they left out the AI naval warfare in skirmishes -- why bother adding naval units?

Empire at War:

Everything is done right. It's not perfect, it's a bit shallow in some areas, and deep in others, but it's a solid package. When they included stuff it's done very well. Nothing 'half-assed', excuse my language.
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Old 05-08-2006, 04:16 AM   #20
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I would say decent, it ain't bad, but it ain't great either.
And a simple (reletivly) X-pack could throw this game into the classics instantly.


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